Your testing equipment

[Smokinghot]

Hey guys...

Just a quick poll on what equipment you're currently using for impedance and FR testing. I'm keeping my ear to the ground on used equipment deals everywhere I can, and would like to know what the "guys who know" are using.

So far I've picked up a used ECM-8000 for 40% of retail, and although I don't have one, the Wallin jig seems to be well accepted.

Any suggestions on pre-amp, jig, soundcard...? ...or even a better mic than the 8000..?

All suggestions welcome.

TIA

[Amphiprion]

I use Praxis with an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 and a Girardin mic. I also have a Behringer ECM8000 around here and a mic preamp for it, but I've never gotten around to using them. Computer is running Windows XP.

There are probably cheaper options out there than Praxis these days. I bought my copy many years ago.

[mpotoka]

From what I've read Soundeasy offers a lot of measurement capability for a not very high price. LSPCad seems to most to be more user friendly, but Just MLS (included with LSPCad) does not offer near as much in the measurement options.

[Smokinghot]

Mark:
May I ask what preamp you were planning on using with the 8000? Would your M-Audio piece not be suitable for use with the Behringer mic?

mpotoka:
Thanks for the feedback, but I was kinda looking for suggestions on hardward not SW. Although, in response... I'm looking towards LSPCad (based on demo) as my SW option once I'm done with the Freeware available.

[Dennis H]

EMU Tracker mic preamp and USB 2.0 soundcard. $150 MSRP and available for less.

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=610&subcategory=611&product=17511

Review of the older EMU 0202 by Bill Waslo, author of Praxis. Short version, one of the best soundcards he has tested. Great distortion specs and runs great at 96K full duplex without a wall wart. Even 192K is usable but not quite as clean as 96K.

http://www.libinst.com/EMU%200202%20USB.htm

[Silversmoky]

E-MU 0404 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface with ARTA & ECM8000 mic. I am still somewhat new with measurements but I have gotten excellent results with this combo.
I might add just for misc. info that the emu 404 does not work properly with justmls, the measurement program that comes with Lspcad. I called Emu and it has something to do with how justmls communicates with the soundcard. They don't speak the same language.

[norcad]

Im using M-Audio Mobile Pre USB and ECM-8000. This soundcard has integrated phantom power and mic pre. That makes it mobile, easy to connect, fewer cables and you dont need the wallins jig.
The soundcards drivers works better with XP, in Vista it has som minor Latency issues.
When I measures TS-data and drivers freq and imp, and constructing crossovers I use Speaker Workshop.
To measure a complete speaker or in room measurements I use Arta Software.

I have bought the Soundeasy also, but why do they call it easy? 8O

[Smokinghot]

Im using M-Audio Mobile Pre USB and ECM-8000.

This could be the combo for me. I wouldn't mind being able to use the laptop for in room testing...

Keep them coming guys...

:T

[Amphiprion]

May I ask what preamp you were planning on using with the 8000? Would your M-Audio piece not be suitable for use with the Behringer mic?

I have an older ARTcessories mic preamp. I'm not sure if it's still made. My Audiophile 2496 only does unbalanced line level RCA and S/PDIF audio connections (S/PDIF done via a breakout cable). I am firmly rooted in the world of Windows XP, so I don't know if any of my gear would have problems under newer operating systems.

[Hdale85]

I have an M-Audio Firewire 410 interface. I need to get a Mic though probably buy one soon but that's what I'll use for measurements. I got a great deal on the firewire 410 was like 120 bucks shipped. I got it for use with my drum setup though as it would be a bit overkill possibly for measurements only Although the price was certainly right.

[Paul Ebert]

I use a M-Audio Mobile Transit and ECM8000. Preamp/mixer is a Behringer Xenyx 802. This seems to work well enough for me (though I'm definitely still learning) and was quite low cost. You can only do 48k with the Transit, though. So far, I have used Arta for measurements and PCD for crossover design.

[abpc1]

Soundcard = Edirol UA-4FX: USB, has mic preamp with 48V phantom power and works like a charm with SE.

Here is a link to an alternate measurement jig: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...=Soundeasy+jig

Regards,

[Smokinghot]

Here is a link to an alternate measurement jig: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...=Soundeasy+jig

Regards,

Thanks for the link.... great read.

[69Stingray]

I have built the Wallin Jig and it works well, but if I was to do it again, I would skip the jig and go right to the Woofer Tester 3 (assuming you are using the jig for T/S and impedance measurements).

[Smokinghot]

Thomas....
Ryan....
Curt....

Any input...? I was hoping you guys would chime in...

[Hdale85]

They probably aren't going to put to much info in as there have been quite a few of these threads made where they have given advice. You can search around and find a lot of them I'm sure.

[ThomasW]

M-Audio MoblePre, Behringer U802, HP-8058A pre-amp/phantom power

Behringer ECM8000, M&K-4133 (yes the real deal)

Audio Control Industrial: MP-200 w/mic

Woofer Tester 3

[Rick Craig]

I use Clio but have a friend who has ARTA and he really likes it.

[Smokinghot]

They probably aren't going to put to much info in as there have been quite a few of these threads made where they have given advice. You can search around and find a lot of them I'm sure.

My apologies... I did actually do a search before posting..."testing - equipment" I think it was. Just got a bunch of build threads. Thought it wouldn't hurt, and beisdes, I figured those testing rigs would change over the years. Current equipment was what I am interested in.

Sorry for any annoyance, if there was... :unsure:

[Smokinghot]

M-Audio MoblePre, Behringer U802, HP-8058A pre-amp/phantom power

Behringer ECM8000, M&K-4133 (yes the real deal)

Audio Control Industrial: MP-200 w/mic

Woofer Tester 3

Was that meant to be a: B&K-4133...?

...and if you don't mind me asking. Why do you use two different mic set-ups...?

Thanks for the reply

[Hdale85]

I think he was just giving you options of what you can do.

[ThomasW]

Yes typo. B&K 4133

Actually there are 3 different mics, the Audio Control MP-200 includes a test mic

This is equipment I've acquired over 40+yrs of speaker building.

When the ECM8000's were first 'discovered' by the DIY crowd, I bought one to see how it compared to the B&K.

I use the ECM8000 if I go to someone's house to test their system. Dropping a $50 mic is no big deal compared to the cost should I drop the 4133.... 8O

[Amphiprion]

I use the ECM8000 if I go to someone's house to test their system. Dropping a $50 mic is no big deal compared to the cost should I drop the 4133....

This is the same reason I bought my ECM, although my regular Girarding mic isn't much if any better. It's just another cheap condenser that's been calibrated against a reference mic and is to be used for run of the mill speaker testing. If I was doing serious high SPL work or needed real durability or anything similar I'd upgrade.

[JonP]

Soundcard = Edirol UA-4FX: USB, has mic preamp with 48V phantom power and works like a charm with SE.

Here is a link to an alternate measurement jig: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...=Soundeasy+jig

Regards,

Ahhhh.... good to know. I was going to just get one and try it out, crossing my fingers on it working with SE.

You beat me to mentioning it, I had just heard about it on another thread. Seems to be a new model, having the mic pre with phantom power is attractive. I also have a ECM8000 that needs it

For Smokin', the mention of a mic capsule (does he sell complete mic's?) from Kim Girardin is an idea, you get a calibrated mic for $40, IIRC, and it only needs the 3-9V power, not the 48V phantom. But, you'll need to assemble it into a usable package.

If you use the ECM8000, it's a good idea to send it to Kim G, for a good cal file. The ECM8000 can be a crapshoot, in that some are very flat, and some have 5-8dB rises at the high end. You won't know, unless you get it calibrated. It's a good idea to have any mic calibrated, that doesn't come with that information.

And, as you're probably finding out, you don't have to build a Wallin jig, you can get by with a simple setup, using alligator clips, and banana jacks and jumpers... with the resistor and other parts. Probably less confusing while learning the ropes... I had a lot of confusion due to setting my Jig wrong, while I was figuring out Speaker Workshop. (and the Jig)

[Smokinghot]

If you use the ECM8000, it's a good idea to send it to Kim G, for a good cal file. The ECM8000 can be a crapshoot, in that some are very flat, and some have 5-8dB rises at the high end. You won't know, unless you get it calibrated. It's a good idea to have any mic calibrated, that doesn't come with that information.

Thanks... That's the first time I heard about that potential issue. I've only spoken to one person face to face about the ECM8000, and he simply stated that it was completely flat. I assumed it was a general statement about the model.

Good to know... :T

[ThomasW]

Thanks... I've only spoken to one person face to face about the ECM8000, and he simply stated that it was completely flat.

No mic is completely flat, all require a cal file...

[Smokinghot]

No mic is completely flat, all require a cal file...

I had read about the calibration files on this forum. However never a mention of sending it to someone else, apparently Kim Girardin, for this process.

[---k---]

Some of the Behringer mics are reasonably flat - enough that some get away without using a calibration file. Others have big bump in the top end. They vary greatly.

Javier has a thread here asking why all his speakers sound bright, but measure flat. He got his mic calibrated and that answered that question. Someone at PE forum posted a graph showing like 50 Behringer mic calibration files. Very interesting.

[JonP]

Yeah, was going to mention that... I've seen a test run with 5-6, and now those crazy Germans who have racked up 50... :E and that's where my comment was coming from.

There are cal files out there, but you have no idea if they are near YOUR mic. It's possible that some cal file might make your mic worse instead of better. If you really want your mic to be accurate, you have to get YOUR cal file.

And, I've noticed that the UA-4FX spec page mentions that it's not full duplex at 96kHz... :cry: ah well... nothing's perfect. So we can only use it up to 22khz measurements, it still has that built in mic preamp, the MIDI to save the USB MIDI adapter for REW/BFD programming, etc. Still might pick one up...

Last note, in case you get an external mixer for a preamp, like Thomas and I have. (Berhinger U802) Mind your EQ pots if it has them! I've found wierd FR measurement results, and then tracked it down to an accidental bumping of one of the pots off center (0dB change) thereby rolling up or down some part of the spectrum.

[ThomasW]

Last note, in case you get an external mixer for a preamp, like Thomas and I have. (Berhinger U802) Mind your EQ pots if it has them! I've found wierd FR measurement results, and then tracked it down to an accidental bumping of one of the pots off center (0dB change) thereby rolling up or down some part of the spectrum.

I use a little drop of hot glue to lock the EQ knobs in place.

[DS-21]

Hey guys...

Just a quick poll on what equipment you're currently using for impedance and FR testing. I'm keeping my ear to the ground on used equipment deals everywhere I can, and would like to know what the "guys who know" are using.

MacBook running FuzzMeasure Pro 3.0.

These days I often just use an Audyssey "tower" mic, either the one that came with my Denon receiver or the one that came with my Audyssey MultEQ XT-equipped Alpine car processor. On one of those $15 Targus tripods from Radio Shack. Very easy-to-carry package.

In the midrange and bass, the Audyssey mic measures very comparably to my old setup, a Velodyne-branded Behringer powered by an M-Audio FireWire Solo that came with my SMS-1, in the bass and midrange. I don't much care about treble measurements, only bass (to set up multiple subs) and through the crossover region. If something sounds wrong up top, it is wrong. Otherwise, no big deal.

[fbov]

I'm curious that no one's mentioned Room EQ Wizard, a freeware program found on the HTShack forum that I've found works just fine with a Behringer U802 mixer and ECM8000 mic. Then again, I've only had this rig (run through a desktop PC) since Christmas...
Frank

[Bukem]

Hi Thomas,

I've got the audiocontrol MP-200 as well. Could you comment on it's accuracy? I'm a bit of a novice and haven't been able to get it calibrated yet so I haven't been using a mic cal file with fuzmeasure. I have no clue wether I can use the uncalibrated measurements as input for crossover design.

Although it's better to get it calibrated would you for the time being share your comments and if possible calibration file for this mic?

I'll start a topic on the two way monitor I've put together as a starting point to measuring and designing speakers & crossovers. It consists of the RS150 and PE silk dome tweeter. Not the best of matches but cheep & cheerfull. Due to cone breakup it will also be a steeper (better) learning curve to get the crossover done.

Regards,

Bukem

[ThomasW]

I've got the audiocontrol MP-200 as well. Could you comment on it's accuracy? I'm a bit of a novice and haven't been able to get it calibrated yet so I haven't been using a mic cal file with fuzmeasure. I have no clue wether I can use the uncalibrated measurements as input for crossover design.

They aren't accurate enough for designing loudspeakers. My suggestion is that you send the mic to Kim Girardin, he'll return it with a cal file for $40 kmgrdn@luminet.net

[ThomasW]

I'm curious that no one's mentioned Room EQ Wizard,

Well that's probably because the thread is about measurement equipment, not software.... :B

[Bukem]

That's a bit of a shocker! Is the behringer much more accurate then? Or is it just that it's useless without a calibration file and that it is fine with a cal file? If I need to send it over from europe I might as well send the right one over..

Rgds,

Bukem

[Smokinghot]

My suggestion is that you send the mic to Kim Girardin, he'll return it with a cal file for $40 kmgrdn@luminet.net

This could be a dumb question but..., is there not anyone in North America that can do the mic/cal file matching...?

Just seems odd to me that there isn't someone within a 1000miles that can handle it...lol.

[ThomasW]

He's in Minnesota, USA. last time I checked that was in 'North America'....

Mic calibration isn't a simple task. There are professional services that charge up to $250 for this ...

That's a bit of a shocker! Is the behringer much more accurate then? Or is it just that it's useless without a calibration file and that it is fine with a cal file? If I need to send it over from europe I might as well send the right one over..

It's not useless, it's just less than optimal.

I have no idea what mic services are available in Europe..I'd explore those options before subjecting a mic to the stresses of international shipping.

[Smokinghot]

He's in Minnesota, USA. last time I checked that was in 'North America'....

If I need to send it over from europe I might as well send the right one over..

8O Somehow "from" became "to" when I read the above posted by Bukem...lol.

Mic calibration isn't a simple task. There are professional services that charge up to $250 for this ...

That makes sense to me. My confusion in regards to the Kim's location is what threw me off.

Thanks for clarifying for me.

[Bukem]

It's not useless, it's just less than optimal.

Thomas,

you possess a great skill namely leaving your audience (in this case me) completely in the dark.

You could have said it's crap in which case I know what to do....

You could have said it's fine, just get it calibrated

But instead you said it's less than optimal.......

which means what? Is it useable - or perhaps - not useable...!%^??? What's the verdict on the professional lookin' measuring kit?

[Dennis H]

That's a bit of a shocker! Is the behringer much more accurate then? Or is it just that it's useless without a calibration file and that it is fine with a cal file? If I need to send it over from europe I might as well send the right one over..

Rgds,

Bukem

Bukem, there's a guy in Germany who does calibrations. He wrote this online article. You might be able to reach him through the website.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdiylautsprecher.de%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D138%26Itemid%3D35&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

PS - if you do decide to get a Behringer, the easiest way is probably to buy one with a cal file from Cross Spectrum Labs. Javier had one shipped to Mexico with no problems.

http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_behringer.html

[ThomasW]

Thomas,

you possess a great skill namely leaving your audience (in this case me) completely in the dark.

You could have said it's fine, just get it calibrated

But instead you said it's less than optimal.......

which means what? Is it useable - or perhaps - not useable...!%^??? What's the verdict on the professional lookin' measuring kit?

Lacking a cal file you're basically guessing when it comes to the accuracy of any measurements of the high and low frequencies.

[mazurek]

Behringer ECM8000's should be individually calibrated. Two I've owned of different ages (and subtly appearance), they measured differently +/- several dB.

[Bukem]

Lacking a cal file you're basically guessing when it comes to the accuracy of any measurements of the high and low frequencies.

^%^%$(%*&%$#!!!!!

That comment would be applicable to any measuring mic, not just the audiocontrol one...

You're a great guy don't get me wrong, no hard feelings here, but once again you've demonstrated your fine skills which I admire so much :W

Regards,

Bukem

[Bukem]

Bukem, there's a guy in Germany who does calibrations. He wrote this online article. You might be able to reach him through the website.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fdiylautsprecher.de%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D138%26Itemid%3D35&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

PS - if you do decide to get a Behringer, the easiest way is probably to buy one with a cal file from Cross Spectrum Labs. Javier had one shipped to Mexico with no problems.

http://cross-spectrum.com/measuremen...behringer.html

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the links :T
A big thumbs up..

Rgds,

Bukem