Full range, no sub required

[dblotii]

Call me old-fashioned, but I like the idea of a tower with enough woofer area that really no sub is required. Combine that with high efficency and low distorion bass and no sacrifices in the rest of the spectrum, and you have aproject that I would like to build. It seems to me that the MCL's on the PE project showcase fit the bill, but I have heard some say that the overall sound is mid-fi.

Any opinions about this? Anyone thought of designing a more refined MCL?

Dave

[looneybomber]

Well, this summer (once temps warm up and school is done) I'll be working on something exactly like you're asking about; Large 3-way's that play clean and do not need a sub. I'm planning on using a 15" Lambda woofer, 2, B&C 6.5" mids, Neopro5i ribbon tweeter...Although I'd like to use 2 PHL 1120's if I could get them a little cheaper.

Another member on here had a similar design built, but used a 12" woofer and only one mid.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=31102

Woofers: ~600/pr
Mids: ~360/quad
Tweet 610/pr

While I won't need a sub for the music I listen to, it will still be a necessity for movies.

[servicetech]

High efficiency generally means using A WMT or WWMT setup like the 3.5's. Doing a SWT setup limits the efficiency to that of the midbass driver.

I did a successful "rebuild" of a WMT earlier this year using HiVi MT's, upgrading the crossover and reusing the existing 12" woofers and cabinets. For under $100 total invested I'm happy.

[cjd]

Closest thing (I think) around here is the big RS WWMTM 3-ways, dual 10's and ~91dB@2.35v

Sub still required, they only reach into the 20's.

[pedroskova]

Buy one of Earl Geddes' kits, like the "Nathan" or maybe the new smaller one he's getting ready to offer, and, instead of using stands, put a pair of AE 12 or 15's in parallel below them. That would get you into the mid 90's in efficiency, with great dynamic headroom.

[bluewizard]

I think probably the first think we need to know is your projected budget?

Budget drives everything. If it is $300, that is one set of recommendations. If it is $3000, then we are in a new ballpark with completely different recommendations.

I suspect the MCL (Magna Cum Laude) is very loud and intense, but the frequency response isn't that low or that flat. Still, it's good.

Look at the frequency response. The MCL starts to fall at 60hz, is down 3db at 40hz and down 6db at 30hz.

Now look at the Millenium, which not only looks cool, but has better frequency response. It is flat down to about 37hz, down less than 3db at 30hz, and down 6db at 20hz. Now, overall, the Millenium is not as loud as the MCL, but unless you plan to play in auditoriums, it is probably more than loud enough.

Assuming these frequency response graphs can be trusted.

If you want a list of assorted projects, in a wide range of prices, look in this groups "Missions Accomplished" Forum -

http://htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39

- for a full range of tested, proven, well documented, and well discussed speaker projects.

Steve/bluewizard

[dlneubec]

My BaSSlines project might work for you. It is about 92db-93db or so, uses a 12" Lambda TD12H woofer, B&C 6md38 6.5" mid, open baffle-dipole and a Peerless HDS tweeter in a shallow waveguide. It doesn't go super low (F3 is about 35hz IIRC) but is very clean and low distortion. It is quite small in size, only about 42" tall. Here is the link:
BaSSlines

Also, my HOSS hybrid omnidirectional project uses built in 10" Dayton RSS265HF subs wth an F3 of around 29hz, however it's sensitivity is probably closer to 87db or so. See here:
HOSS

[lunchmoney]

I like having a separate sub because it allows me to modulate how p*ssed off my wife is :roll: ... I can simply turn the sub down for bass-heavy music.

Although I suppose an eq on full range speakers would do the same thing.

[dblotii]

Isn't it a bit surprizing that a system with 2 12 inch subs doesn't go into the 20's? That would be another reason to redesign the MCL's

I think probably the first think we need to know is your projected budget?

Budget drives everything. If it is $300, that is one set of recommendations. If it is $3000, then we are in a new ballpark with completely different recommendations.

I suspect the MCL (Magna Cum Laude) is very loud and intense, but the frequency response isn't that low or that flat. Still, it's good.

Look at the frequency response. The MCL starts to fall at 60hz, is down 3db at 40hz and down 6db at 30hz.

Now look at the Millenium, which not only looks cool, but has better frequency response. It is flat down to about 37hz, down less than 3db at 30hz, and down 6db at 20hz. Now, overall, the Millenium is not as loud as the MCL, but unless you plan to play in auditoriums, it is probably more than loud enough.

Assuming these frequency response graphs can be trusted.

If you want a list of assorted projects, in a wide range of prices, look in this groups "Missions Accomplished" Forum -

http://htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39

- for a full range of tested, proven, well documented, and well discussed speaker projects.

Steve/bluewizard