New at this but really want to complete this project.

[Mr.Jennings]

Ok, so like the title says, I'm new at this. Now i know what look i want and read up a bit about space and what you need inside the speaker it's self.


But I have maybe the stupidest question to witch I can't seem to find an answer. How do you know what speakers to pick. I sorta really like the sound of these http://www.totemacoustic.com/products/columns/wind/ but they are way out of my price range and i really hate the design. I like the design of the Kef iQ9's.

I would settle for iQ9's replicas also, but you know if your gonna do it why not do it right the first time,

Is there a way to reproduce this sound or is that out of the question and need to sorta trial and error on sound till i find what I want??

I really want to end up with 2 speakers that can blast my ears when listining to music but still have a nice sound when watching some movies. Also I like a warm speaker nothing that sounds tiny and cold.

Now i'm willing to read if you can guide to what I need and really want to achive something if quality, Also I have lots of patience and real will to see this trough, so any help will be appreciated.

P.S. I will build my own center chanel also after i would finish this build.

[digital desire]

There is a bit of a leap of faith involved.
Go to the missions accomplished section just above here, and start reading.
There are really no bad apples in the bunch, pick one that fits well with your capabilities and budget.
That is what I did and could not be happier with my choice.

[HareBrained]

Is this close enough to the Kef for you?

http://zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html

And most likely, both crossover options will sound better than the Kefs. That's just been the reputation of Zaph's work. He is able to extract incredible performance for his designs. If you have to skill and/or money, there's no reason to hesitate building this speaker.

If you want to move the ports to the front, it's possible but there could be a coupling of port and driver at the resonance frequency that may result in a somewhat altered output. Typically, Zaph does not endorse any mods to his designs. He does state that the speaker is insensitive to placement as long as it is places a foot or great from the wall.

[Mr.Jennings]

thanks for the link. But the look is not what i'm looking for at all.

This is more like what i want http://www2.kef.com/ca/Loudspeakers/Q-Series/IQ90

But my main concern is the sound quality of what I am expecting to hear. I really like the sounds of the Totem winds( linked in above post) But they cost 10 grand. I don;t have that kind of money. So I was wondering if i could build something cheaper with the same sound quality and range.

I want something warm and filling. I don't want something that sounds small and harsh.

So i guess my first question should really be how could i imulate there sound. ( speaking of the speakers that is) Now the box design will come after i can match the sound.

[Curt C]

But my main concern is the sound quality of what I am expecting to hear. I really like the sounds of the Totem winds( linked in above post) But they cost 10 grand. I don;t have that kind of money. So I was wondering if i could build something cheaper with the same sound quality and range.

The simple truth is that a well turned out DIY design will in most cases run sonic rings around commercial offerings costing many times more. Why this is, is subject to debate, but lets pretend it is simply due to the accountants and marketers messing up the design, and requiring enormous, but necessary mark-ups to make money.

I want something warm and filling. I don't want something that sounds small and harsh

I’d suggest a nice apple pie, right out of the oven if possible. :rofl:

So i guess my first question should really be how could i imulate there sound. ( speaking of the speakers that is) Now the box design will come after i can match the sound.

OK, Seriously, now: For warm and filling I’d suggest coated paper or poly drivers, at least for the midrange. They generally will not have the resolution of a hard coned driver, but will be more forgiving of poorly recorded source material. As far as emulating the Totem’s I suspect many DIY designs already suggested will meet or exceed their performance.

Speaking of speaker designs: As you might imagine, they are quite complex to design properly, and choosing the appropriate drivers is only the tip of the iceberg. The crossover implementation itself is quite involved, requiring specific measurement equipment and software to obtain the best result. It would be best to pick an already proven design of your liking than to try to re-invent the world yourself the first time out.

C

[JonW]

Mr. Jennings,

For what little it may be worth… I quite like the Totem sound. I have a pair of Forests at home. For what they are, I think they’re excellent. One of the best commercial speakers I’ve heard. (Which isn’t to say I’ve heard too terribly many.) As I started to get into DIY speakers I looked into clones of various Totem designs. There are a few mentioned here and there, mostly at diyaudio. But I don’t recall ever seeing a complete design posted anywhere. In the end, I tried my hand at designing a new speaker, rather than cloning a Totem. To my ears, I think that I actually ended up with a better speaker. (It took a loooong time, though- not necessarily the best way to start.) So with DIY it’s quite possible to better the commercial designs you have in mind. Like the others here have mentioned, I would recommend having a look through the excellent designs in the Missions Accomplished section. There’s sure to be a speaker in there to fit your goals. Also, I recommend looking at Zaph’s site. Excellent designs there, too.

MA’s link here:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39

And Zaph’s site:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/

[Curt C]

FWIW, Jon is the only person I know of that developed a truly excellent design his first time out. IMO, you would be well served to consider his Spassvogel design as a possible solution to your quest. An elegant implementation of excellent drivers.

C

[Mr.Jennings]

well there seems to be some nice desins there but none have the look i want can i modify the cassing as long as i keep the spacing inside the same or does that have an effect also

[ThomasW]

well there seems to be some nice desins there but none have the look i want can i modify the cassing as long as i keep the spacing inside the same or does that have an effect also

The 'look' is an integral function of the system design and engineering. If you want to design a system from scratch (not recommended for a n00b) you can create virtually any look you want. To do this requires an investment of several hundred $$$ in test equipment, books, software and the knowledge to use them.

If this up front investment is a bit much, go with one of the proven designs from a known designer, and focus on performance instead of looks...

[Mr.Jennings]

I think its getting more complicated then i was hoping.

Now i do know the look I want. I want something that looks like a Kef iQ9 http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rxQoT5Fcq4Y

Now that is the definite look i want. Does not have to an excat copy but i would really appreciate somthing with the lines that are similar to this. Nothing i noticed here seems to have that look.

I guess that wqould be the start of the project.

Now as for sound quality i guess that is the second part but i still need to know what woofer mids and tweeter i will use so i can design my cassing right ???

Now I'm not having an issue with the fabrication of the casing, it's more of an issue with the interior design that i'm worried about. Now i don't want something that will sound thin. I want something nice and warm more jazzy orienteated but that will still make the guitar crunch when playing rock.

Now this might be imposible to do but i think the what i need to know is if i fallow someones speaker and crossover design from here, but make my own casing will that really be a big deal or not ??

I must insist on the fact that i want the iQ9 look to my speaker. hehehe don,t want to sound like an ass.

P.S. thanks for all the input i think i'm starting to realize a bit more what is going on with the design of a speaker

[Dennis H]

tThis is more like what i want http://www2.kef.com/ca/Loudspeakers/Q-Series/IQ90

You need to be a bit more specific about what you like about that look. If it's just the curved sides, you can do that with most any design. If it's the coax mid/tweeter, you probably won't find a DIY design that sounds as good as the KEF. Not many companies build good coax drivers and even fewer sell to the DIY market. With any of the DIY designs, you need to keep the front baffle dimensions, especially the width, and the driver locations on the baffle, very close to the original design or you will change the sound. You also need about the same internal box volume but the shape of the box behind the baffle is open for 'artistic' interpretation.

[Mr.Jennings]

There we go we got some where to start

Yes it the curved look that i like especially.

well see i was thinking of using something like this http://www.usspeaker.com/BETA10CX-1.htm for the top speaker

with

2X http://www.usspeaker.com/BETA10A-1.htm

could this work??

Or ama i just better off finding someones speaker diagram and then just build the outside of the box like the Kefs???

[Mr.Jennings]

oh might also so go with teh 8inch designs instead

[Dennis H]

Pick a good COMPLETE design -- designing a good crossover is much harder and much more important than picking some drivers -- and then modify the cabinet for the look you want. Here's an example of a curved interpretation of a Missions Accomplished design (peer reviewed at DIY events to sound excellent).

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=32296

[Mr.Jennings]

you just answered all my questions

now i'm on a quest to pick the set that pleases me most.


then i can work on the box design

[fbov]

You're on the path I took; it works very well - there are some great designs available for all price and performance levels (and some pretty incredible 1-offs here and there, too).

As to the set that pleases you most, that's the right way to go, but it's not an easy way if you want to audition designs before deciding. I don't see a better way to audition that attending one of the DIY events held around the country (Indiana in April, Dayton, Iowa, etc.), but that requried more patience than I had at the time, so I went with reputation at a price point, and I'm very pleased (just finished #2 last night).

Have fun,
frank

[Mr.Jennings]

Ok now one small question.

When i choose the speakers i like, what part of the design do i keep. I think the front part witch is called a baffle i beleive would have to be identical. and then i beleive the inside of the bix would have to be quite similar, especially the litre size and everything.

But if i want to sorta design the rest of the box like i want it's free game. Am i right with that assomption??

[DeathMonk]

Keep the baffle the same and the internal volume the same and you're pretty much good to go.

[Mr.Jennings]

I think i got it

Ok these are what i'm going to build http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

but i really donèt like the shape.

what can I change??

I just really want them to gave a rounded back like the kef iQ9's would i be permited to do that with out really changing there sound ???

[DeathMonk]

Reply, not new thread :\

[Mr.Jennings]

Sorry about. That if someone can merge them togethere that would be appreciated

[Mr.Jennings]

does anybody know if there is a non vented version of the ZDT3.5's ??? I just i dont think i have the proper side wall distance for them to sound right

[Johnloudb]

Ok these are what i'm going to build http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

but i really donèt like the shape.

what can I change??

I just really want them to gave a rounded back like the kef iQ9's would i be permited to do that with out really changing there sound ???

You can change the shape as long as you don't change the baffle width and keep the drivers positioned the same. The internal volume and port locations also need to be the same. The tweeter and midrange should be about ear level when listening. Other than that you change what you like.

The ZDT3.5 is ported.

[ThomasW]

does anybody know if there is a non vented version of the ZDT3.5's ??? I just i dont think i have the proper side wall distance for them to sound right

The ZDT3.5 is ported.

There are sealed and ported versions on Zaph's webpage.

There isn't a modified BSC version for placement close to a wall.

[Mr.Jennings]

Looking trough many builds i see that MDF seems to be a favorite of speaker builders. I was wondering if you could just avoid that and use some nice quality ply wood??? It would avoid the lamination process.

But would it affect the sound?? I guess it comes from my guitar back ground

[---k---]

If you look at the Khanspire thread you'll see 13-ply void free baltic birch ply used. My big sub and small Lineup D4 are also with this stuff. About $60 a sheet. CJD turned me on to it. There are many of us who use it, and some that will claim it is better than MDF. Good stuff, easy to work with.

Many people will also claim that the less plywoods are fine. I tend to agree with this, as long as it is decent plywood. I used some cheap plywood for my Khancenter, and it turned out fine.

[HareBrained]

If you look at the Khanspire thread you'll see 13-ply void free baltic birch ply used. My big sub and small Lineup D4 are also with this stuff. About $60 a sheet. CJD turned me on to it. There are many of us who use it, and some that will claim it is better than MDF. Good stuff, easy to work with.

Many people will also claim that the less plywoods are fine. I tend to agree with this, as long as it is decent plywood. I used some cheap plywood for my Khancenter, and it turned out fine.

What is the thickness you use?

I believe that plywood works because of the multiple densities of the materials used, creating multiple resonant frequencies but multiple dampening layers too. Deductively, the more layers the better. And if there are any resonances, you can apply all sorts of other cheap materials to change the characteristics.

[ThomasW]

What is the thickness you use?

13 layer is approx 3/4"

[Mr.Jennings]

Hey guys back with one small question.

Was looking trough Zaph part list and noticed that lots of the stuff is branded like for example Dayton DNR-6.0 6 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor.

Now would you guys suggest i get those or could i go a local electronique store here in Canada and by and equivilant??

It's just that if i could save on shipping, that would be better on the wallet

[Smokinghot]

A 6ohm 10W resistor is a 6ohm 10W resistor...

Only part that you may have to pay attention to is it +/- tolerance. The lower the % on the tolerance, the closer to the stated value. I'd really be curious about how off the stated value of 6ohm the resistor would have to be, to make an audible difference.

[ThomasW]

A 6ohm 10W resistor is a 6ohm 10W resistor...

Close but no cigar....

For crossovers only non-inductive power resistors should be used. And there are differences between the various types of non-inductive power resistors.

If one is substituting find a resistor that's the closest match for the one the designer has spec'ed

[dar47]

Hey guys back with one small question.

Was looking trough Zaph part list and noticed that lots of the stuff is branded like for example Dayton DNR-6.0 6 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor.

Now would you guys suggest i get those or could i go a local electronique store here in Canada and by and equivilant??

It's just that if i could save on shipping, that would be better on the wallet

As the Canadian buck is not good right now I would use,
http://www.solen.ca/pub/ they have everything you need for the crossover.

[Smokinghot]

Close but no cigar....

For crossovers only non-inductive power resistors should be used. And there are differences between the various types of non-inductive power resistors.

If one is substituting find a resistor that's the closest match for the one the designer has spec'ed

lol... The more time I lurk in this site, the less I find I know ops:

I stand corrected.

;x(

[Dennis H]

lol... The more time I lurk in this site, the less I find I know ops:

I stand corrected.

;x(

It's not that bad. I think Thomas was just saying some high-power resistors have a bit of L to go along with their R (from the coiled wire in their core) so you need to be a bit careful selecting them if the L will affect the crossover. Most resistors advertised as being 'non-inductive' won't have enough L to matter in most filters but it's still something to consider.