Statement's setup, won't work!!

[cobblepots]

I just set up my mini's, center, and surrounds. They all put sound out and seemed to be working properly. I turned the receiver up to about -13db and the receiver shut down and went into protect mode. It's an Onkyo TX-SR805. I have the speaker settings put to 4 ohms. It will start back up but then shuts down imediately. I have it unplugged for now. Does anyone have an idea as to why it would go into auto shutdown at this relatively low power level?

It's a new unit. It does get warm to the touch at -25 db which is where I had it at while during setup. I can't imagine that amount of power would cause it to be that warm. Does anyone have this receiver running the mini's? I don't think they would be over powering this amp. I'd hate to think the reciever is broken...

[impala454]

You might try the speakers one at a time. -13 is pretty loud on my Denon, not sure how that translates to Onkyo though. What are the ratings on your receiver?

[Jim Holtz]

I just set up my mini's, center, and surrounds. They all put sound out and seemed to be working properly. I turned the receiver up to about -13db and the receiver shut down and went into protect mode. It's an Onkyo TX-SR805. I have the speaker settings put to 4 ohms. It will start back up but then shuts down imediately. I have it unplugged for now. Does anyone have an idea as to why it would go into auto shutdown at this relatively low power level?

It's a new unit. It does get warm to the touch at -25 db which is where I had it at while during setup. I can't imagine that amount of power would cause it to be that warm. Does anyone have this receiver running the mini's? I don't think they would be over powering this amp. I'd hate to think the reciever is broken...

I think it's a process of elimination. I'd suggest you start by hooking a pair of speakers to the front channels only and see how the receiver responds. If it'll handle all the speakers in pairs, start to add them to the other channels until you run into trouble. However, I'm guessing you have a crossover issue. Something is causing an excessive load and shutting the receiver down. I'm assuming you've used this receiver and know it's ok, correct?

Jim

[---k---]

A crossover problem, or maybe you just found the limit of a receiver that is not rated for 4 ohm speakers. Probably not what you wanted to hear. I don't know, but it could be a problem.

[kevinp.]

A crossover problem, or maybe you just found the limit of a receiver that is not rated for 4 ohm speakers. Probably not what you wanted to hear. I don't know, but it could be a problem.

the 805 is rated for 4 ohm speakers.

[cobblepots]

It is rated for 4 ohm speakers. I realize that -13db is pretty loud but from my understanding this is a pretty beastly receiver.

Why would it cut out at a higher volume if it was running for about an hour at -25db? This leads me to believe that it's not crossover related but I'm not rulling that out. My next thought was, my appartment complex wired every outlet AND light on the first floor to a 30amp breaker. I have a 52" sony LCD, lights, PS3 and this reciever all on at the same time. That's a large load. Perhaps it's not getting enough current and shut down? I'll look at it tonight after work.

[cobblepots]

Let me clarify a previous statement, the reciever is warm to the touch at a lower volume but it did not get hotter with time. It was at a static temperature (at least, that I could tell with my palm). The unit never got hot and was at the same temp when shut down came.

[cobblepots]

Also, another tidbit

at the lower volume, I stuck my head next to each speaker. Every driver was working and every speaker sounded like they had the same level of sound coming from them. There was no distortion or un equally loaded drivers that I could hear.

[---k---]

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR805&class=Receiver&p=s

Ahhh. I see. I looked too quickly when I googled. The Power Output section on the Spec page doesn't list performance for 4ohm, just 8 and 6ohm. However, it does list 4ohm power further down under the Dynamic Power.

Oddly, the Features page it says:

Continuous 6ohms Rated - yes
Certified 4ohms performance - yes

Notice the different wording??? If they sound correct at lower volume levels and you have triple checked the crossovers, you may be finding the limits of the receiver. Probably 4 ohm certified means it can handle it for 2-channels but not 3+ channels continuously. I don't know, but something is goofy about their wording.

That is some weird apartment wiring. I don't see how it can be up to code. May be a problem, but I would think if you were drawing too much current you would trip the breaker rather than shut the receiver down. I don't know, I'm not an expert and usually stay at Hampton Inns.

[ThomasW]

Get a SPL meter and measure the actual output levels where the problem occurs.

[cobblepots]

I'll look into the meter

Code wise, the wiring is most certaintly is not correct. There is no label on the panel that describes where things are. All I can see is lighting 4 times, dishwasher, washer/dryer, and heater.

I spent a summer working on circuit breakers and load centers for GE. Breakers are designed to take a minimum of 20% over load for a certain amount of time (usually a few minutes) before they thermally trip, depending on how much current is being drawn. This allows a possible small overload to pass without breaking the circuit. If the current is extremely high such as in a line fault, the magnetic energy from the electricity in the breaker will cause it to magnetically trip within milliseconds of the fault. The receiver was not on that level for more than 40 seconds which in my experience would not cause a thermal trip in the circuit breaker. The breakers will line fault trip immediately if that were the case.

[cobblepots]

I see what you are saying with the ratings... Not sure what that means. Looks like a call may be in order.

I think my first troubleshooting item will be to find out where a different circuit is and buy a high gauge extension chord. I'll plug the receiver into that circuit and test it again. Maybe that will root cause something...

[cjd]

Get a meter and check the DCR of your speakers, just to be sure.

I run 4ohm speaks on my 705 and haven't had issues, but they're a true 4ohm (actually a hair above) - my guess is the thermal performance of the 805 (it already gets hot) may in fact be more limiting than the 705, and it may not even deal well with a 3.5 ohm speaker... but who knows. Start with some data. DCR as well as the SPL levels.

C

[mmoeller]

I would check for bare wires running close to one another in the crossover. Could be a ground fault or shorting protection on the reciever. I know the level of voltage would have to be very high to arc or cause dielectric breakdown, but it seems as the voltage increases the chance of some kind of intermittent electrical fault is increasing.

[blue934]

if you would like to check the running temp on your 805, do the following.
using front panel buttons: press and hold 'display', press 'standby' once and release, release 'display', immediately press 'tone' once.
mine displays in celsius, don't know how to change to fahrenheit.

blue934

[cobblepots]

Is there a temperature that it should be at during normal operating conditions? I wasn't able to find anything in the manual.

[audioslave]

Might want to try the >6 ohm setting

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-5.html

On both the 805 and 806 there is a significant drop in power available from the amps in the 4 ohm setting. There is a nice explanation of why they limit the output in the 4 ohm setting and what effect it has.

Another interesting tidbit....

"I used M&K MPS2510 front satellite speakers (high passed at 80 Hz as per THX) which have a decidedly difficult 3.5 ohm nominal load. The 805 was set to the appropriate 4 ohm setting, and in my actual use at least did not exhibit any audible distress, even though I thought it might on certain material and playback level combinations I was messing with."

Of course the key is that they are high passed at 80hz. Are you using a sub? I didn't read all the above posts thoroughly...just saw the reference to 4 ohms setting and remembered the 806 review in which they stated it was worthless as an amp set for >4 ohm. The 805 is much better but still might be a prob.

[Dennis H]

Yeah, that 4-ohm setting in some receivers is pretty lame. I don't know about this one in particular. I'd try setting it back to 8 ohms and see what happens. You won't break the receiver; if it gets too hot it will still shut down.

[blue934]

Is there a temperature that it should be at during normal operating conditions? I wasn't able to find anything in the manual.

i am running an 805 5.1 system set at 6ohm. i just ran music through all channel stereo at moderate/loud levels for 2 hrs = 58deg. i turned off the sub and switched the mains to full range (although they are sealed with a 60hz roll off so not much bass to speak of) and ran it for another hr and no change.
will watch it the next time i listen to a loud movie.

blue934

[cobblepots]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I root caused the problem to one of the monitors. The woofer circuit had 2 strands sticking out and touching another lead ops:

wired it back up, put on some Jazz, (Jesse Cook's Frontier) and all I can say is holy crap! I'm incredibly impressed with how these speakers reproduce sound. Tool's 10,000 days has never sounded so good :T . Thanks a million! I'll post pictures and impressions after the holidays as I'm going back to Buffalo today to visit the family. Too bad I got them working as I'm leaving!

[---k---]

And the prize goes to - drum-roll-please-

Jim Holtz, post #3!

I think it's a process of elimination. I'd suggest you start by hooking a pair of speakers to the front channels only and see how the receiver responds. If it'll handle all the speakers in pairs, start to add them to the other channels until you run into trouble. However, I'm guessing you have a crossover issue. Something is causing an excessive load and shutting the receiver down. I'm assuming you've used this receiver and know it's ok, correct?

Jim

Let's give it up to Jim for correctly guessing that there must be something wrong in the crossover!


:B

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Ryan,

I'd like to take a bow and say, "ain't I smart", but the truth is, I've screwed up so many crossovers early on when I first got into DIY speakers that I know the symptoms. ops:

I'm just glad that Cobblepots was able to quickly identify the issue and get it fixed. Now he can enjoy his new speakers.

Jim

[---k---]

Yeah. I'm glad it wasn't the receiver. So many people just used receivers, it would be disappointing to finally see someone confirm that they couldn't handle it. But, I thought it should be considered, considering the funky wording on Onkyo's website. I'm very glad that wasn't the issue.

[cobblepots]

Just watched I am Legend.... My skin crawled when the monster's were screaming. And that's a good thing :P

[cobblepots]

spoke too soon, just shut down... wtf back to the troubleshooting

[cobblepots]

Turned the bass down, and it is running well. Looks like I need to finish my sub pronto

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Cobblepots,

As you found out, boosting the bass draws lots of power. a receiver probably isn't the best solution for that.

Something you might consider. I believe your Onkyo 805 has preouts. You might consider adding an amp. Sound quality will go up and problems will go away. A good amp will be an investment for 20 years or more. I like Emotiva but Outlaw and many others also have excellent equipment. You can also find great equipment at reasonable prices on Augiogon.

Good luck with your system and enjoy your speakers!

Jim

[cobblepots]

Jim,
Thanks for the advice. With budget limits, I'm going to stick with the 805 for now. I was originally going to get the XPA5 but maybe not until tax return time 8) . I'm well aware of the demands for low frequency power as I've had a few subwoofers in my car back in the day. Nothing like frying an alternator to teach you that lesson!

I have a sub in the works powered by an Oaudio amp. When that's done, I'll be crossing it to the speakers at 70Hz. Should solve my problems.

[BobEllis]

Make sure that your receiver has plenty of space around it for air circulation. Closed back racks and low impedance loads don't work well together. Without knowing your racking situation, put the receiver out in the open on top if possible. other random thoughts -

Add hockey pucks or other spacer underneath, and try to give it 5-6" all around.

Be sure that the heat sinks are clean (a shot of compressed air in a can might help) Dusty/pet hair filled environments clog up the sinks fast.

Add a slow running computer fan blowing cool air at the bottom of the receiver. Hmm - does the receiver have a fan? does it come on when working hard?

[cobblepots]

The reciever has 2 fans that go on when needed. When the amp shuts down, it's never hot. It only happens when it's a sudden high load (explosions).

[looneybomber]

The reciever has 2 fans that go on when needed. When the amp shuts down, it's never hot. It only happens when it's a sudden high load (explosions).

Have you used a DMM to see what your input volts are doing?

[cobblepots]

Have you used a DMM to see what your input volts are doing?

Haven't got that far. I don't think any more troubleshooting is needed at the moment. I watched the entire length of the Matrix without a shut down. It's most likey just overdrawing the amp when the bass really hits. The receiver was barely warm to the touch after the movie. Thanks for all the help so far everyone!

[Dennis H]

Have you tried the 8 ohm setting yet? If the amp isn't hot when it's shutting down, most likely the 4 ohm setting is just 'imagining' problems that don't really exist.

[cobblepots]

Have you tried the 8 ohm setting yet? If the amp isn't hot when it's shutting down, most likely the 4 ohm setting is just 'imagining' problems that don't really exist.

Dennis, that's my next step. Though, I'm a bit hesitant to mess with the setting. I think when I cross it to my sub and then turn it up I'll see if it shuts down again. If it does and the temperature is still low, I'll change the setting to 8ohms. I'm a bit of a wuss when it comes to risking my electronics...

[Operandi]

Have you tried the 8 ohm setting yet? If the amp isn't hot when it's shutting down, most likely the 4 ohm setting is just 'imagining' problems that don't really exist.

Couldn't it still be overloading? I mean heat is only one factor, each channel is only capable of so much output, and a high-tech receiver probably knows exactly what is going on on every channel at any given moment. If too much current is drawn on particularly demanding passage wouldn't that put the amp into protection?

Explosions usually means lots of bass which means impedance drop. Combine that with high SPL and that sounds like a hefty load to me. Of course I am by no means an expert so I may be completely off here.

[kevinp.]

ugh, you're using the 4 ohm setting? All that does is limit the power available. That receiver in the 8 ohm setting has more current available than many stand-alone amps, and should run those speakers fine. Try it!