Keep exisitng subs or get something new?

[mike93lx]

I currently have a pair or Elemental Designs 11Ov.2's. They're D4 and NIB.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=34

For HT and music use (mostly TV and an occasional movie) would you keep these or sell them and get something else? Lets keep the budget for the new driver(s) at around $200-$250. I like that the eD drivers do not need massive boxes.

I'm planning to purchase a 500watt plate amp to run this pair or whatever else I purchase. I do have a 1100watt Crown amp that I could use, but I will need to buy a crossover.

Any help/tips would be much appreciated!

[mike93lx]

I am playing around with WinISD and finding that the pair of 11Ov.2's model quite well against a Shiva-X with the same power. eD subs in a 4.6ft^3 enclosure tuned to 20Hz and the Shiva in 6.35ft^3 tuned to 18Hz. THe shiva only begins to take over at 20Hz and below, but from 20 to 100, they are essentially the same.

I was originally thinking about a Tempest-X, but they have been removed from the diycable website. :huh:

Is there anything else in this price range worth looking at?

[Blktre]

I was originally thinking about a Tempest-X, but they have been removed from the diycable website. :huh:

The Tempest X will be back in Feb. with a slight design change and a slight price increase.
I ended up w/the Dayton RSS390HF-4 for $160. There's a an HO version too, but the HF version people seem to like better.
Try playing with that in WinISD.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-468. When putting in the parameters for the RSS390HF into WinISD all the specs are there on the page except for Pe which is 500w.

[ThomasW]

There's more to this than sims.

How big is the room?
How far from the sub to the listening position?
How loud do you want the sub to play?

[mike93lx]

the room is approximately 17x20. the tv is currently in a corner, but I hope to correct that soon with a plasma mounted over the fireplace. once that happens, the speakers will be placed on either side of the fireplace. seating is a large L-shaped sectional.

I would likely place the sub in the corner, approximately 8 feet from my seat.

super loud is not critical. My iguana gets stressed pretty badly when I play anything too loud, so I tend to keep it pretty reasonable.

at some point, these will be moved into the basement where I have a 26x17 room that will have a projector. at that point, it will be more movies than anything, and a setup that can dig really low will be nice.

edit: I just purchased the Dayton HPSA500 plate amp, if that has any bearing on this decision. (great deal at $195 minus the $20 coupon, btw! and yes, I clicked through the banner link :T)

[Blktre]

edit: I just purchased the Dayton HPSA500 plate amp, if that has any bearing on this decision. (great deal at $195 minus the $20 coupon, btw! and yes, I clicked through the banner link :T)

That is a sweet deal on that amp. And will work well for you. Congrats!

When you move downstairs, you can always build a second box if you need to. Your room is big, but are you trying to fill this entire space with the lower octaves or are you just wanting the listening area to be covered?

For now a single 15" driver upstairs should work for you. Have you looked at that RSS390HF yet? That driver in a 4 to 4.5 cubic ft. sealed box (approx. 22" squared) will reach to around 32Hz and with room gain will dig into the mid 20's easily. And that plate amp you just bought mates well with that design.

[mike93lx]

I've only very briefly looked at the Dayton subs. I'll look at the 15 a little more in depth.

with regards to the basement room, I don't need to fill the whole space, but I intend to have enough seating for around 6-10 people, so multiple subs will be a necessity. I may just do an entirely new setup when that room gets done as it may be a ways away.

[mike93lx]

The picture below will illustrate my question. All subs sim fairly similarly. THe 19ov.2 has the most output throughout, bust also requires an enclosure large enough that I think it is prohibitive. the 11ov.2's roll off sooner than the Shiva, but otherwise, appear the same. how differently could I expect this two setups to sound?

[---k---]

The Tempest X will be back in Feb. with a slight design change and a slight price increase..

Is this posted somewhere? I'm not in the market, but I always recommend the Tempest, so I want to know if I shouldn't be.

[Blktre]

Is this posted somewhere? I'm not in the market, but I always recommend the Tempest, so I want to know if I shouldn't be.

I asked Kevin about a month ago and that's what he told me. I can fwd the email if you would like.

Mike, If your interested in music at all, then the Titanic is not the one for you. Some well respected guys over at PE that have ran both units felt the Titanic is a one octave driver strickley for HT where the RS series can do both music and HT very well. And i do agree that the Titanic plots very nice. I haven't personally heard the Titanic, but there is more than one voice over there saying they don't like it in comparison.

Have your tried plotting the ED 11Ov.2's in a sealed box? They might go pretty low in a smaller box.

[---k---]

I asked Kevin about a month ago and that's what he told me. I can fwd the email if you would like.

Nah. We'll leave it as it is and move on.

[mike93lx]

Mike, If your interested in music at all, then the Titanic is not the one for you. Some well respected guys over at PE that have ran both units felt the Titanic is a one octave driver strickley for HT where the RS series can do both music and HT very well. And i do agree that the Titanic plots very nice. I haven't personally heard the Titanic, but there is more than one voice over there saying they don't like it in comparison.

Have your tried plotting the ED 11Ov.2's in a sealed box? They might go pretty low in a smaller box.

Thanks for the insight on the Titanic.

Regarding the 11O's...To yield a Q of .707, I would need a 1.4 ft^3 box, but the roll off is way too steep for me. at around 4 ft^3, Q is .5 and the curve is a little better looking...the sealed enclosure is down 7db at 20Hz but only 4db down at 30Hz.

I'm thinking about building 2 enclosures, 1 sealed and 1 ported to see how they do.

In what instances will the poly cone impact sound quality and output? I know that there are other materials that people prefer, but why?

[Dennis H]

I'm not inclined to let Kevin off that easily. I've alway liked him but several months ago someone at AVS posted a Dumax of the Tempest-X that's nothing like what he advertised. He challenged the Dumax but never provided any measurements that contradicted it. He said he'd provide some distortion measurements as he could do that himself without paying for a Dumax or a Klippel, but he never did that either. Now he's quietly changing the design and has pulled the old one. I always figured Kevin for a straight shooter, and I understand he's a small businessman with a limited budget, but this smells.

[HareBrained]

Hi Mike,

The differences in extension between the 11O and Shiva-X shouldn't be noticeable. I think the Shiva-X may have slightly better control but then the 11O doesn't sound muddy.

In a large space, you'll not want as much roll-off from 100Hz to 30Hz, as room gain won't come into play until ~40Hz. Given that, the Shiva-X should provide the best large space-low freq output. But again, the 110 isn't bad.

I don't know how you could be disappointed with the 11O's.

[---k---]

I'm not inclined to let Kevin off that easily. I've alway liked him but several months ago someone at AVS posted a Dumax of the Tempest-X that's nothing like what he advertised. He challenged the Dumax but never provided any measurements that contradicted it. He said he'd provide some distortion measurements as he could do that himself without paying for a Dumax or a Klippel, but he never did that either. Now he's quietly changing the design and has pulled the old one. I always figured Kevin for a straight shooter, and I understand he's a small businessman with a limited budget, but this smells.

Why don't we get Thomas to split this out as a separate thread and maybe ask Kevin to respond. My limited experience has also been that he is a straight shooter. He used to post here once in a while, so I'm sure we'll get something. I'll drop him an email.

[ThomasW]

I'm not going to split this thread so the AVS discussion can continue here. People wanting to continue the AVS discussion should use the AVS thread.

Regarding Kevin changing the driver, that's SOP for many small mfgr's when they run out of stock and are reordering. An example of this is the 4 times Adire changed/upgraded the Shiva.

In what instances will the poly cone impact sound quality and output? I know that there are other materials that people prefer, but why?

Poly isn't inherently a stiff material. With a sub it's best to have a cone made from as stiff a material as possible. This is why we see epoxy/Kevlar reinforced pulp, metal, or exotic plastic 'sandwich' construction in the better drivers.