Help... I want to learn to build my own cabinets, don't know how to start!

[fjhuerta]

Yesterday, my local carpenter (a very skilled guy) delivered my latest projects, and much to my surprise, everything was wrong - the size of the holes, the depth of them, and he had blown two of the drivers he took. Apparently, he used them as templates, and even the holes he cut look ragged! Plus, the cost was higher than if I had ordered the stuff from Parts Express to Mexico!

:E

So, I've decided I want to learn how to build the boxes myself. I'll have him do the finish (he does excellent work, much better than anything I could achieve).

If someone knows of a guide that can help me get started (what kind of equipment I need, how to use it!), I'll be very grateful.

I'll order a Jasper Jig from Parts Express, or a Router Buddy (which one is better?), and start from there. I know I need a router, but don't have a clue as to what to buy. I know I need to get the cheapest stuff out there, since prices in here are by far higher than in the States. But hey, at least we have a Home Depot!

[Undefinition]

If someone knows of a guide that can help me get started (what kind of equipment I need, how to use it!), I'll be very grateful.

I'll order a Jasper Jig from Parts Express, or a Router Buddy (which one is better?), and start from there. I know I need a router, but don't have a clue as to what to buy. I know I need to get the cheapest stuff out there, since prices in here are by far higher than in the States. But hey, at least we have a Home Depot!

Honestly, building the cabinets is one of the most tricky parts to learn, and there isn't much written on the subject.
This guy did a walkthrough on building the Dayton 3's, and he did probably the best job of anything I've read:
link removed by moderator, link triggers virus warning

Also, here's some tips (I think they stole these from a David Weems book):

http://www.lalena.com/Audio/FAQ/Build/

I've been thinking of doing a walkthrough on a build. For instance, I have to rebuild the Orient Express (people asked for a version using the shielded woofer), so I thought I might take pictures along the way this time.

Hope that helps.

[Hdale85]

That first page you linked there I'm getting a malware warning from avast on it.

[ThomasW]

Javier,

Do a search here for tools, routers etc we have some nice threads about this. Here's just one example

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=17998

[---k---]

Javier,

Woodworking is woodworking. I found some of the best resources to be woodworking books and magazines - especially when it comes to some of the safety basics. My local library had several good books that just flipping though and skimming helped me a lot. Hopefully you have similar resources. Also, watching a few of the furniture woodworking shows on tv helps.

[tf1216]

You will surely need as many clamps as you are willing to buy. Those are so important. You will be surprised how hard it is to make a square box. Maybe I am an idiot when it comes to glueing.

Something else that I have learned is that buying cheaper power tools is not always the most cost effective route.

You might want to buy some bondo and learn how to use it well. You are about to embark on a fun hobby but it can get difficult for first timers. I will surely be one for a long time.

[Dave Bullet]

Hi JAvier,

Deward posted a very helpful thread here:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=30687

If you don't want to go the whole way, this is what I do and it works well.

Get a local timber shop to cut the MDF panels for you on their table saw. Two reasons for this:
1. They will be square (very very important - more so than size)
2. Their size will be pretty accurate (+/- 1mm.)

I usually give the timber shop a panel cutlist / layout guide. When I get home tonight I'll post a link to an application where you can graphically draw this yourself. This is to minimise the number of fence changes between cuts so panels with the same length / width will be identical.

I also ask them to cut 2mm bigger on each outsidse panel. This is so I can use a flush trim bit on a router and get these close to perfect.

I don't have enough clamps, so I just re-use wood screws between jobs. I back them out after the glue dries. Doesn't seem to cause a problem. Of course the downside is you have screw holes to fill. I recommend one of the products they call here called Mendent or "builders bog" This is a chemical compound that sets quickly and rock hard and doesn't shrink like some products (although it can expand in the direct hot sunlight).

Therefore, I recommend you get the following:
1. A plunge router with a collett that can take 1/4 and 1/2 size bits
2. A cordless rechargeable drill - 14v or greater. Preferably one with a quick release screw vs. drill chuck so you can quickly switch (ie. Black and Decker firestorm range).
3. Woodscrews - using a roberson (or square head) - not philips head. a) they don't slip, b) they will hold on your drill freeing up a hand
4. A jasper jig or seas circle guide (?). Zaph rated the seas guide above the jasper as I think it has infinite graduations (whereas the Jasper is 1/4" diameter increments). I have a jasper and it is ok, but the seas looks better to me.
5. The odd g-clamp or two to hold down workpieces and free up both hands
6. A 1/2" roundover bit - or as big as your router can handle

Hope the above helps.
Dave.

[LING GOWA]

My windows Live Care just caught a Trojan from that link.

[Hdale85]

Which one the speakerbuilder link? If so I got the same thing with avast. So you may want to remove that link as I'd hate for someone to catch a virus through the site here.

[Undefinition]

Which one the speakerbuilder link? If so I got the same thing with avast. So you may want to remove that link as I'd hate for someone to catch a virus through the site here.

Poop. That was a pretty good walkthrough. Good site, too. Pity.

[Sakura]

I think the Jasper Jigs go in 1/16th increments, not 1/4.

Get a router with a 1/2" collet (or both 1/2 and 1/4).

MLCSwoodworking.com is where I've found most of the best deals on router bits. They have a clearance section with deals that change. Sign up for the email and get a coupon for 10% off your first order.

I don't know if Amazon.com ships to mexico? This table saw would be decent (if you decide to get a table saw, and need a small one that can be shipped): http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-4000-09-...3337556&sr=8-3

You don't have to have a table saw though, you can use a hand-held circular saw, and for big cuts you can use a cutting guide. Here is one example of a cutting guide, there are better ones, if you want I can lookup the one I got which has a base for the saw that locks onto the guide with ball bearing rollers, much less expensive than a decent table saw, and, can cut an 8 foot sheet in half (which my table saw, while nice, can't do).

[ThomasW]

The standard model 200/400 Jasper jigs are 1/16th inch.

[fjhuerta]

WOW, so much great info! The links are incredibly helpful. I now know what I want, and what I need.

I believe making a square box is a bit more difficult than it seems. And my local carpenter is pretty good at it. So, if I understand correctly, a router and a Jasper Jig (or Router Buddy) will help me do the circles with the depth and exact size I need.

Perhaps I could begin by drawing the baffle on the MDF, and then cutting the speaker holes myself - finally giving the board to my local carpenter to finish. It would definitely be simpler to do it this way.

Then again, if he's still charging me so much for baffles ($300 to $400 per pair) I could probably just buy them from PE, have them sent here and do the holes myself.

Thanks again for all your help!

[Dennis H]

Then again, if he's still charging me so much for baffles ($300 to $400 per pair)

Wow, you're really getting ripped off! I could build a pair of baffles in less than an hour if I had all the tools at hand.

There must be some cabinet shops in Mexico City that could do it for much less. Any shop that builds kitchen cabinets should be able to do it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to build them yourself but, if the only goal is to save money, the tools and learning time aren't really worth it if you can find someone to do it for you at a reasonable price.

Edit: when I said I could do it in less than an hour, that's just making the cuts. Finishing them is another story. If his price includes a piano black gloss finish, that's different.

[fjhuerta]

Hi Dennis!

Yes, he is including the finish, and he's pretty good at it. The last speakers he built for me have some lacquer finishes (metallic green and blue) that are far beyond what I could ever achieve.

Still, he has been slowly raising his prices, and at this point, I believe P-E boxes (even with the shipping charges) make more sense.

[David_D]

So, if I understand correctly, a router and a Jasper Jig (or Router Buddy) will help me do the circles with the depth and exact size I need.

Oh, not just any router, make it a Plunge Router.

[impala454]

Javier, I've got a whole list of my newbie mistakes in the first post of my build thread, if that helps you out any:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=30825

[---k---]

I believe making a square box is a bit more difficult than it seems.

No it isn't. Don't sell yourself short. It is pretty easy. Maybe try a sub build, that has lots of room for error.

[Hdale85]

If you wanted to you could mount a new piece of MDF to the pre existing boxes and recut the holes. If the rest of the box is correct that is. A square box isn't really that big of a deal. Especially if you have a table saw and a router it makes things very easy.

[rob17]

Oh, not just any router, make it a Plunge Router.

I made my first 6 speakers and a sub with a fixed base porter cable 690. I would recommend a plunge router as well though. I bought their 890 series router which is nice because it has variable speed which is real handy with larger bits and it came with both a fixed base and a plunge base. The plunge base kept sticking and it was made out of fairly cheap metal so the screws that held my porter cable circle jig striped out one time and I wrecked a real nice front baffle I was making out of figured maple. That was a expensive mistake! I now have a elu plunge router and it is much nice. I picked it up on ebay, I would recomend one of the dewalt plunge routers as they are the same as the old elu ones.

Also as far as router bits go I have always had pretty good luck with Freud ones. They are a bit more expensive but they will last you a long time and they stay sharper longer. You can pick those up on amazon or ebay. Home Depot carries the cheaper diablo series but I have found those are not quite as nice but still better then the average ones at home depot. CMT, Porter Cable and Bosch also make decent bits but I put Freud on top of all of those. I would highly recommend you stay away from the 50 bit set for $50 or what ever. Once there was a kid in my high school shop that brought a set like that in. I was amazed at the difference in quality of cut that the freud gave compared to the cheap ones that kept burning the material no matter how fast you routed.

Just my $.02

[JonW]

You will be surprised how hard it is to make a square box. Maybe I am an idiot when it comes to glueing.

Agreed. I have yet to build a perfectly squared box. And I've tried a few slightly different approaches. I may also be a total idiot in this regard (as well as other regards).

Is there a good tutorial somewhere for making a square box? I googled around and found a little info, but nothing too enlightening. Any good books to look at?

[Dennis H]

Square box: assuming you start with square pieces (fix them if they aren't), the main thing is to measure the diagonals while the glue is still wet so you can rack it into shape with a diagonal clamp if necessary. A metal square might be off a little so it's always good to double check and make sure the diagonals are the same.

[JonW]

Thanks Dennis. So that's all there is to it? Sometimes, when I can see that it's not quite square, I have trouble clamping things more closely to where they should be. For instance, when a piece sticks out in one place and is short in another, adjusting it so that everything aligns perfectly isn't always so easy. Not that I've built many projects yet. Maybe I should take a woodworking class or something.

[impala454]

one thing (especially if you own an older tablesaw) is to use a tape measure to measure from the fence to the blade tip, rather than trusting the fence. you can usually squeeze out just a little extra accuracy that way.

[David_D]

Also a longer setting glue helps alot. 15-20 min to align, square & clamp multiple pieces is not easy.
Although this is overkill to some, I uses dado joints for alignment.
Mark's Statement build uses biscuits. I can see both as benificial when it comes down to the critical clamping time.

[Dennis H]

For instance, when a piece sticks out in one place and is short in another, adjusting it so that everything aligns perfectly isn't always so easy.

Again, the first step is making sure your cuts are square. Measure the diagonals to check. Gluing things together, I apply the clamps with just a little pressure, tap things into final position with a hammer and then finish tightening the clamps. It gets hard to have enough hands if you're doing a box with lots of braces so the suggestions of biscuits or dados and slow setting glue are good ones. If it's getting painted or veneered, some people use a brad nailer to quickly tack things in place before the clamps go on. Even with a couple of nails in there, you can still do the hammer tap thing to move the boards a hair before you tighten the clamps all the way. Use a scrap of wood between the hammer and the finished wood if you have to pound very hard.

Edit: I forgot to mention, it really helps to have a flat surface to assemble the box on. A piece of MDF on saw horses works pretty well if you make sure the tops of the horses are parallel with each other. A typical garage slab isn't very flat so you may need to shim up the legs of the horses to get the tops parallel.

[---k---]

I usually clamp to hard and the pieces slide on me.

[Dennis H]

I usually clamp to hard and the pieces slide on me.

That's why a hammer is your friend. It usually slides before the clamps get tight (floating on the glue layer) so bang on it after it slides and then finish tightening the clamps.

[impala454]

my trick was to do one corner first. i lay out a piece of wax paper over my flat surface (usually a large leftover MDF scrap laid on top of the tablesaw). it lets me liberally glue those joints without worrying about it sticking to the table. that way I can also clamp to the flat surface to make sure none of the pieces slide around.

[Dave Bullet]

my trick was to do one corner first. i lay out a piece of wax paper over my flat surface (usually a large leftover MDF scrap laid on top of the tablesaw). it lets me liberally glue those joints without worrying about it sticking to the table. that way I can also clamp to the flat surface to make sure none of the pieces slide around.

I also use waxed paper.

Since I dont' have enough clamps, I screw / glue 3 pieces together at once (back, side and top) - which ensures the box will be square and flush - resting the longest side on the waxed paper on the flat surface (ie. large MDF scrap) so the glue doesn't stick to the scrap if you are over zealous like me and use too much glue and it oozes out.

[JonP]

I usually clamp to hard and the pieces slide on me.

A trick I learned for this... sprinkle a few grains of salt here and there on the glue joint. Just takes a few per inch,dosen't bother the glue, and when you tighten the clamps they act like sandpaper and give you traction.

The somewhat coarser Kosher salt is good, but regular table salt works as well.

Nothing as frustrating as that glue joint drifting all over while you're trying to get it settled. A bit of salt, it just stays put.

[JonW]

Thanks for the further tips, guys. I think my table saw is OK, so the problem is me, not the cut accuracy. Maybe I should buy an old, rusty table saw so I have something to blame.

A longer setting glue is a good idea. I use Titebond II.

I like the salt idea, too.

Maybe I should spend the time upfront to cut dados. Those should help aligning things better.

And one thing that I certainly do not have is a flat surface to work on. My basement floor is far from flat (100+ year old house). And my “work bench” (ahem) is a warped piece of scrap ply on 2 wobbly saw horses of crooked 2x4’s. Even if the saw horses were the exact same height, the uneven and bumpy, cracked floor make it tough to get the saw horses parallel with each other. Any suggestions there? Thanks.

[David_D]

Thanks for the further tips, guys. I think my table saw is OK, so the problem is me, not the cut accuracy. Maybe I should buy an old, rusty table saw so I have something to blame.

A longer setting glue is a good idea. I use Titebond II.

I like the salt idea, too.

Maybe I should spend the time upfront to cut dados. Those should help aligning things better.

And one thing that I certainly do not have is a flat surface to work on. My basement floor is far from flat (100+ year old house). And my “work bench” (ahem) is a warped piece of scrap ply on 2 wobbly saw horses of crooked 2x4’s. Even if the saw horses were the exact same height, the uneven and bumpy, cracked floor make it tough to get the saw horses parallel with each other. Any suggestions there? Thanks.

a layer of MDF on table saw works well.

[David_D]

A longer setting glue is a good idea. I use Titebond II.

Titebond original & II have a 10-15 min setup time.
Titebond III has a 20-25 min setup time.
They also sell a Titebond II "extended" which has a 20 -25 min setup time but, I have only found that in specialty wood shops.

[Dennis H]

Wood shingles work well for shimming up the legs of your 'bench'. Slide them in and out to adjust the height.

[Biff]

from a cheapskate

Hollow core luan doors are dirt cheap and make great assembly tables - throw a couple of coats of poly on and the glue squeezeouts even come off easily. Mine is bridged on a pair of Stanley plastic sawhorses (23 a pair) and breaks down in a minute. A plunge router, as suggested, a circular saw with a laser guide and a fine tooth and a coarse blade. Make yourself a saw board and as mentioned, clamps, clamps, clamps! some ways to make your box square (or at least increase the odds) is to cut triangles and use them as corner braces, or use a perimeter box frame inside, or do a window brace cut to the interior dimensions and build your box around that. Band clamps are nice to maintain a piece after the bar clamps draw things together - tighten the band clamp and pull the others to move to the next dimension for gluing. Chop saws are easy to find at pawn shops now and are next in order of handiness.

Yes, I am so tight I squeak when I walk.

[---k---]

That's why a hammer is your friend. It usually slides before the clamps get tight (floating on the glue layer) so bang on it after it slides and then finish tightening the clamps.

My brain has learned that, but my hands still haven't.

A trick I learned for this... sprinkle a few grains of salt here and there on the glue joint. Just takes a few per inch,dosen't bother the glue, and when you tighten the clamps they act like sandpaper and give you traction..

I've heard that before. I'm going to have to remember it for my next project.

[Rolex]

Titebond original & II have a 10-15 min setup time.
Titebond III has a 20-25 min setup time.
They also sell a Titebond II "extended" which has a 20 -25 min setup time but, I have only found that in specialty wood shops.

This is a little misleading. I contacted the manufacturer about this because I needed to know the open time of Titebond extended. They told me that Titebond I, II, and II have open times of just a few minutes. Tite bond extended will allow an open time of about 8 minutes.

I have found these times to be quite accurate.

[JonW]

OK, some more good ideas coming through…. Titebond extended, flat door for a work bench, commercial saw horses for a flat bench, triangles for corner alignment, window braces for aligning sides to glue up.

Good discussion. This should help bump up my workmanship a little. Thanks. :T

[impala454]

Yeah from experience, no way Titebond III has an open time of 20-25 mins. It's as Rolex said, just a few mins. And I am in a very humid climate (not sure if that matters though).

[Dennis H]

The thing about yellow glue is the "open air" time doesn't mean much. You can do an experiment and put glue on two pieces. Rub them together and, when the glue gets thin enough, they will suddenly "grab." That's with no clamps but, once they grab, you almost need a hammer to move them.

[David_D]

This is a little misleading. I contacted the manufacturer about this because I needed to know the open time of Titebond extended. They told me that Titebond I, II, and II have open times of just a few minutes. Tite bond extended will allow an open time of about 8 minutes.

I have found these times to be quite accurate.

Good to know. I thank y'all for the correction.

[Rolex]

The thing about yellow glue is the "open air" time doesn't mean much. You can do an experiment and put glue on two pieces. Rub them together and, when the glue gets thin enough, they will suddenly "grab." That's with no clamps but, once they grab, you almost need a hammer to move them.

In some cases, when you are assembling parts, the glue sits, in the open air, until it gets assembled. So, open air time does matter. There isn't much of it.