designing small speakers for near field listening (e.g., desktop)

[Cyan]

You may ask jed for a custon design though. His prices are simply the best.

[xyrium]

You may ask jed for a custom design though. His prices are simply the best.

Thanks. That might be the best course of action since my original thread asking for a nearfield design isn't getting any love yet:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35158

[---k---]

In case JonW doesn't get back here soon, he is building a Tempest-X.

Yes, he is putting a Tempest in his work office! Nice! :T

[JonW]

I certainly don't mind going bigger in the cab to get down to 50Hz with some level of snap. If I could find a design that gets down to F3@50 with very low distortion, I'd be very happy. Of course, that brings me back to the ZRT and SR71 designs with a modified crossover for nearfield I suppose.

So if you’re looking for a near field speaker design… This thread was started to try and determine what design criteria should be put into a near field speaker. See the first post for some of my initial thoughts on design elements. As you can see, I’m working on just such a speaker now. I don’t know of any low distortion near field designs, although there could be plenty out there.

Assuming you want to start building now and go with a proven design, well, there are various options. First, I’d think that you want a small speaker like an MT. Nothing huge like any 3 ways because then the sound will be coming from too large an area and you will be sitting too close to get the drivers to integrate well. Besides, you won’t have space for much more than an MT. So I think that any well executed MT design might get you in the ballpark. Then start narrowing down the options based on your specific needs of bass output, cabinet size, budget, and low distortion.

Regarding specific designs, I have not heard either the ZRT or the SR-71. But I have heard some other Zaph designs and they are all worth considering seriously. You mentioned low distortion. That criterion happens to be something I am quite picky about. The ZRT’s use some of the lowest distortion drivers that are available. In fact I also made an MT speaker called the Spassvogels using those same Scanspeak drivers (see the picture in my avatar, to the left, and the build thread in Missons Accomplished). I can tell you that these drivers are really excellent. I’m very happy with them.

So if low distortion is a major factor, I would say go ZRT, Spassvogels, or wait for these mini MT’s to be completed. Low distortion is also a major design criterion for the mini MT’s.

Regarding bass output, the ZRT’s and Spassvogels are both ported and play down to around 34 Hz or thereabouts. But both cabinet volumes could probably be reduced a lot if need be, as long as you don’t mind less bass. Just be sure to keep the front baffle around the 2 drivers the same. For example, the Spassvogels could be shrunk down to maybe 20” tall, keeping the 10” width as they were built originally. We would have to figure out the depth needed for a given bass tuning/output. You could put the port on the front if you want or go sealed. I’d think the ZRT’s would be about the same. But I will not dare tell you how to change the ZRT’s- that’s Zaph’s design.

Then you are only left with the issue of baffle step compensation (BSC) for placing the speakers near a wall. There are various ways to handle this. The best way would be to build the speakers, take measurements near the wall, then we look at changing the crossover a bit. (Alternatively, it is possible that I could be persuaded to remeasure the Spassvogels near a wall, but I’d rather not- they’re pretty heavy and I hate taking measurements.) The easiest way would be to change the BSC in the crossover using standard numbers for when a speaker is pushed up to a wall (6 dB, etc.). For the Spassvogels, there is not a specific BSC circuit in there so I don’t know, off the top of my head, how to do it. However there is likely a way to deal with it. Using the approximation will get you to a good sounding speaker. But it will be an estimate and not the very best possible. There is no substitute for real measurements used to make a real speaker.

Anyways, those are some thoughts from this end. Hopefully they’ll help you pick a good project. There are plenty out there.

[JonW]

In case JonW doesn't get back here soon, he is building a Tempest-X.

Wow. Even I forgot which driver it was. Yeah, it’s the 15” Tempest. So, like, can we give Ryan (-k-) some special htguide support award or something?

Yes, he is putting a Tempest in his work office! Nice! :T

It will look like a table. No one will notice. (ahem). But really:

It’s good to be the king.

[Black300zx]

Very cool project! I'm definitely interested in how it turns out.

After reading the initial post, I was going to throw out the idea of using the CSS WR125 to allow you to make them a bit smaller and still have good bass output, but then I realized the original post was in '08, and that the design was already chosen!

[JonW]

Very cool project! I'm definitely interested in how it turns out.

After reading the initial post, I was going to throw out the idea of using the CSS WR125 to allow you to make them a bit smaller and still have good bass output, but then I realized the original post was in '08, and that the design was already chosen!

Thanks. Yeah, the holes are cut and the cabinets are built. So it's a little too late to change course at this point. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

[xyrium]

Hey Jon, any news? :Z :lol:

I think I'll be doing the sealed ZRT design, but in a 30l (1ft^3) cabinet from PE. This will allow me to initially hear the sealed design by adding some internal mass to bring the cab down to about 22l, but then port the front and use the full 30l for the vented design (which I believe is the mimnimum volume per Zaph's blog). It also allows me to maintain the original ZRT design's baffle width.

It looks like the interest in nearfield designs is heating up though, and opening up the DIY market to home studios. Anyway, I'm very interested on your decisions in your current endeavor.

Rgds,
Paul

[JonW]

Hi Paul,

I’m betting you’ll really, really like the ZRT’s. I have the same tweeter and woofer in my Spassvogels and I think they are both amazing. Your idea of building and then trying different volumes is a good one. You will learn a lot and that will help you optimize those speakers for your needs and also help you with future projects. You have to let us know how that all goes.

For the mini MT’s, I’m building this project for myself, of course. But if, as you say, there might be demand for such a speaker out there, it would be cool to see other people build it. We’ll see. Still lots for me to do.

So the update… Here’s what I’ve got done since I posted last…

-Finished all the woodworking for the sub. See the pics, below. Still need to add the finish coats.

-Started building a maple and cherry stand for the fourth speaker. Three of the speakers will sit on shelves above my desk but I need a stand for the fourth one.

-I wrote up a very detailed, step-by-step procedure with many photos for how to build the speaker cabinets. With diagrams of all the dimensions needed. A preview is shown in the pics below.

I have not started a thread for these specific speakers. I’ll wait until I’m farther along with the design. Although if you wanted to build them and start now, I could post or email the step-by-step details for how to do it. It would take you a little while to get the cabinets complete. By then I could have the crossovers done. Or not- I don’t dare estimate how long they will take. That said, if our roles were reversed I don’t know if I would start a speaker build until I could see the complete design. So far you only can see a little ugly woodworking done by some flunky posting on the internet.

[Cyan]

What's the reason of the angle?

[JonW]

What's the reason of the angle?

I chose the slanted baffle (and facets) after building various cabinet configurations and measuring the results. If you want to see the measurements click on this link and start reading at post Firmware news... and onto the next page:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25031&page=10

The slanted baffle does some things such as:

-brings the acoustic centers of the tweeter and woofer closer together
-makes overlapping the phase of the 2 drivers easier
-so you can get a little better integration of sound between the drivers (especially helpful for a near field speaker)
-points the output lobing of an MT design straight ahead instead of the typical downward tilt (especially helpful for a near field speaker)
-helps the baffle diffraction a little (I can’t really explain this one but it’s what I found.)
-makes the cabinet build more difficult so it takes longer and keeps DIY speaker builders off the streets
-looks cool

[xyrium]

Nice work on the sub cab Jon. It's looking good. I can't wait to see which drivers you choose for the Schlaftmutze's, love the name too (Nightcap right?).

I may try to build the baffle out a bit just to add facets. I really like that look, and from another thread, they seem to smooth out the response as well.

Keep up the good work!

[JonW]

Thanks Paul. Yeah, the slanted cabinet and facets really do seem to smooth things out quite nicely. It’s more effort to build but I do think it helps make for a better speaker.

For the drivers, I picked the lowest distortion ones I could find for this project. Here they are:

Tweeter: Scanspeak D3004/602010, $126

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8498

Woofer: Seas Excel W16NX-001 (E0049-08), $220

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8175

For what it’s worth and in regard to your other post on calculating F3’s of bass output… In the 5 liter cabinet as shown above, the F3 for these small speakers will be 80 Hz. That’s calculated from WinISD. If you add a port and double the volume the F3 drops to 45 Hz.

Good call on Schlafmutze. Translated literally it’s “sleep cap.” Here in the US we might call someone a “sleepy head” instead.

[xyrium]

Ouch, that's going to be quite a price tag for 4 speakers! However, it sounds like a very dynamic system. The linear excursion on the Excel line seems to be double of the Revelators. What amps are you using?

Thanks Paul. Yeah, the slanted cabinet and facets really do seem to smooth things out quite nicely. It’s more effort to build but I do think it helps make for a better speaker.

For the drivers, I picked the lowest distortion ones I could find for this project. Here they are:

Tweeter: Scanspeak D3004/602010, $126

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8498

Woofer: Seas Excel W16NX-001 (E0049-08), $220

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8175

For what it’s worth and in regard to your other post on calculating F3’s of bass output… In the 5 liter cabinet as shown above, the F3 for these small speakers will be 80 Hz. That’s calculated from WinISD. If you add a port and double the volume the F3 drops to 45 Hz.

Good call on Schlafmutze. Translated literally it’s “sleep cap.” Here in the US we might call someone a “sleepy head” instead.

[Silversmoky]

Thanks Paul. Yeah, the slanted cabinet and facets really do seem to smooth things out quite nicely. It’s more effort to build but I do think it helps make for a better speaker.

For the drivers, I picked the lowest distortion ones I could find for this project. Here they are:

Tweeter: Scanspeak D3004/602010, $126

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8498

Woofer: Seas Excel W16NX-001 (E0049-08), $220

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8175

For what it’s worth and in regard to your other post on calculating F3’s of bass output… In the 5 liter cabinet as shown above, the F3 for these small speakers will be 80 Hz. That’s calculated from WinISD. If you add a port and double the volume the F3 drops to 45 Hz.

Good call on Schlafmutze. Translated literally it’s “sleep cap.” Here in the US we might call someone a “sleepy head” instead.

Hi Jon. I forgot that you were using this tweeter for this project. Curious to hear your impressions when you finish up on this project. I just finished up a larger 3 way design with this tweeter and have been really impressed with the clarity and smoothness. I am wondering how it compares to the 6600 that you used in your Spassvogels. I think Zaph mentioned that they share design similarities and distortion profile looks quite similar, with the 6600 being a little cleaner. Will have to hear your listening impressions when you are all done! :B

[jquin]

I'll volunteer to do the 3D CAD files for this again.

Just email us though the drawings or whatever you have.

I'd be interested to see a spin on this with affordable Dayton drivers like the new RS-28F and one of their metal woofers such as RS150-S. I think I'd cut corners on the cross over too and bypass the air core on this one.

[JonW]

Ouch, that's going to be quite a price tag for 4 speakers! However, it sounds like a very dynamic system. The linear excursion on the Excel line seems to be double of the Revelators. What amps are you using?

Actually, I haven’t decided on the electronics to run this system. And I’m open to suggestions. It will be in my office so all the music will be on my Mac, coming to the electronics via an optical out. I’ll have 4 speakers playing (2 lefts, 2 rights) and the sub. So whatever I get has to have digital in, a DAC, a crossover for a sub, output to 4 speakers, and then 4 channels of amps. Needing an “all channel stereo” mode or something of the sort is really limiting my options. Oh, and it needs to look cool for the people that come to my office. I could get a receiver (NAD, Yamaha, etc.) or a prepro and 4 or 5 channel amp of some sort. Haven’t decided how much to spend on it. Idunno…

Hi Jon. I forgot that you were using this tweeter for this project. Curious to hear your impressions when you finish up on this project. I just finished up a larger 3 way design with this tweeter and have been really impressed with the clarity and smoothness. I am wondering how it compares to the 6600 that you used in your Spassvogels. I think Zaph mentioned that they share design similarities and distortion profile looks quite similar, with the 6600 being a little cleaner. Will have to hear your listening impressions when you are all done! :B

Oh come on- you can’t just say that you made a new speaker and not provide the details! What other drivers, how does the cabinet look, did you do the design yourself, how does it sound…? Man, are you trying to get yourself banned around here or something? :W

[JonW]

I'll volunteer to do the 3D CAD files for this again.

Just email us though the drawings or whatever you have.

You’re too kind. :T I still owe you a beer for making the Spassvogel pics. Next time I’m in Oz- and your part of it. Haven’t been there for 5 years, though.

All the info is in the 2 diagrams I posted on the previous page (post #99). Would you like me to email you those files? No hurry on this as the speakers aren’t even done.

I'd be interested to see a spin on this with affordable Dayton drivers like the new RS-28F and one of their metal woofers such as RS150-S.

Interesting idea. Let me get these first versions done and maybe we could consider a cheaper version. Not sure if the Dayton drivers would be the best choice or not. With a budget target in mind I could look around and see what is available.

I might be willing to do the crossover for the cheaper drivers if someone else builds the cabinets. Even better would be if someone else takes the measurements and sends them to me.

Alternatively, I wonder if there could be any drop-in replacement drivers. Needing both a similar tweeter and woofer but at lower cost, I doubt it. I could look around a bit, though. Maybe there would be some things close enough. Due to the cabinet design and baffle diffraction issues the tweeter would have to be a small flanged one. Unless the cabinet size grows, changes significantly, and then we’re into a totally new speaker. Seas and Dayton have a bunch of small tweeters. I'll take a look.

I think I'd cut corners on the cross over too and bypass the air core on this one.

We’ll see what components I end up using. Size is going to be a consideration because the cabinets are very small and we don’t want to rob the woofer of any more volume than needed. I’ll have my crossovers inside the cabinets. And the fancy caps, for example, can get to be quite large. Compare the size of a Solen cap to a Clarity of the same value and the volume increases by multiples. So I may likely use cheaper caps like Solen. And smaller gauged (or maybe iron cored) inductors should take up less volume than larger ones. Plus any increased DCR may not be a problem for a near field speaker. And maybe not a big deal here for a far field (regular) use either, especially when crossed to a sub. So the crossover costs might not be too bad here.

[xyrium]

I'd pick up a firewire or USB DAC from Emu or Presonus (I have the Emu 1616M), output that to your receiver or pre-pro setup. I recently dumped an ATI amp that was actually quite excellent. They are made in the USA, and use very good components for the price (I believe Linkwitz uses a multichannel unit on his Orion and they make a pre-pro as well). Same goes for B&K stuff. I got rid of the ATI because I wanted to start using balanced connections, and I found a great deal on a Parasound. Even though the Parasound A23 that I got doesn't implement balanced connections truthfully, it does allow me to run my connections across the room without signal degradation. Again, my setup is for nearfield studio purposes though, so YMMV.

I wouldn't rule out Audiogon either if you want to save a few $ after buying all of those Excels.

Actually, I haven’t decided on the electronics to run this system. And I’m open to suggestions. It will be in my office so all the music will be on my Mac, coming to the electronics via an optical out. I’ll have 4 speakers playing (2 lefts, 2 rights) and the sub. So whatever I get has to have digital in, a DAC, a crossover for a sub, output to 4 speakers, and then 4 channels of amps. Needing an “all channel stereo” mode or something of the sort is really limiting my options. Oh, and it needs to look cool for the people that come to my office. I could get a receiver (NAD, Yamaha, etc.) or a prepro and 4 or 5 channel amp of some sort. Haven’t decided how much to spend on it. Idunno…

[JonW]

I'd pick up a firewire or USB DAC from Emu or Presonus (I have the Emu 1616M), output that to your receiver or pre-pro setup. I recently dumped an ATI amp that was actually quite excellent. They are made in the USA, and use very good components for the price (I believe Linkwitz uses a multichannel unit on his Orion and they make a pre-pro as well). Same goes for B&K stuff. I got rid of the ATI because I wanted to start using balanced connections, and I found a great deal on a Parasound. Even though the Parasound A23 that I got doesn't implement balanced connections truthfully, it does allow me to run my connections across the room without signal degradation. Again, my setup is for nearfield studio purposes though, so YMMV.

I wouldn't rule out Audiogon either if you want to save a few $ after buying all of those Excels.

Thanks. I’ve got to look around some more. Audiogon and ATI are things that I was, indeed, considering. Still not sure where I’ll end up with on the electronics front.

[JonW]

I'd be interested to see a spin on this with affordable Dayton drivers like the new RS-28F and one of their metal woofers such as RS150-S. I think I'd cut corners on the cross over too and bypass the air core on this one.

jquin,

OK, I just took some time to look around and see if I could come up with a more affordable version of the Schlafmutzes. For reference, with the Scanspeak tweeter and Seas W16 woofer they will cost about USD $700 for drivers and I’m guessing $200 for crossovers, so let’s estimate $900 total per pair.

I have not taken the measurements yet with the drivers in the cabinets but the cabinets are 100% complete. The easiest way to use cheaper drivers would be to find ones that fit in the holes I have for the cabinets. Drop them in and take measurements at the same time that I’ll take the measurements for the drivers I have on hand. It would not be too much extra work, nor would modeling the extra crossover. Voicing the variant would be more work but I might leave that up to others. Anyways, I looked around for other drivers and here’s what I found…

Tweeters:
I looked at all the small flanged tweeters and did not come up with much, only one that is the same size or smaller to fit in the hole: The Seas 27TAFNC/G is smaller than the hole I have in there now. At $32 is it much cheaper than the $126 of the current Scanspeak. It would need a thin wood insert to mount and measure it. However the performance is not great. Some distortion is nearly 20 dB higher than the Scanspeak. So I will not recommend this tweeter. I think we have to keep with the Scanspeak.

Woofers:
Some of the Seas 5.5” woofers have the exact same frame as the W16 at $220 and could be put into my cabinets without modifications. Two stand out:

SEAS Prestige CA15RLY (H1216) 5.5" Coated Paper Cone, $66

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=824

SEAS ER15RLY (H1455) 5" Reed Paper Cone woofer, $69

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8180

I would recommend the CA15RLY given that the distortion is slightly lower than the ER15RLY. Although it is close. Bass tuning: For the cabinets I have the F3 is at 95 Hz. Increase the volume and port it to get an F3 down to 55 Hz.

The midrange output of these drivers is a few dB off the W16 so they will not be drop-in replacements. I’d need to take measurements and adjust the crossover accordingly. So if anyone really wants a cheaper version of the speaker, they’d have to send me the drivers so I have them on hand the day I can take measurements for this project. (I only want to take measurements once- it’s a pain to set up and break down the measurement rig. Not a fun day so I won’t do it twice.)

Using the CA15RLY saves $154 per woofer. Including the crossover parts I’m estimating that the W16 -> CA15 woofer swap would bring the total driver + crossover costs down from ~$900 -> ~$600 per pair.

That’s still probably ~$200 more than the Dayton variant you mentioned, so it may not be worth the design effort. I guess I’d only go through all this extra work to build a cheaper Schlafmutze if I thought that there is significant demand for it and others would really want to build it. My guess is the complex cabinet build will keep 95+% of the people away from such a speaker anyways. OK, those are the latest thoughts.

[Operandi]

The midrange output of these drivers is a few dB off the W16 so they will not be drop-in replacements. I’d need to take measurements and adjust the crossover accordingly. So if anyone really wants a cheaper version of the speaker, they’d have to send me the drivers so I have them on hand the day I can take measurements for this project. (I only want to take measurements once- it’s a pain to set up and break down the measurement rig. Not a fun day so I won’t do it twice.)

Using the CA15RLY saves $154 per woofer. Including the crossover parts I’m estimating that the W16 -> CA15 woofer swap would bring the total driver + crossover costs down from ~$900 -> ~$600 per pair.

The view count would seem to indicate there is a lot of interest, $600 doesn't seem too bad for really high-end nearfield design. I guess questions is would Seas Prestige + Scan tweeter be a balanced speaker? And just my opinion but if the performance is close I would vote for the ER15RLY, its a much nicer looking woofer and the price is about the same.

As for electronics I have the Firestone Spitfire on my desk and I'm pretty impressed with it, though it is my fist external DAC so my experience is a bit limited.

For the amp you might consider building your own, high quality 4 channel amps might be harder to come by.

Also why 4 speakers?, surround sound for games/movies?

[Silversmoky]

Oh come on- you can’t just say that you made a new speaker and not provide the details! What other drivers, how does the cabinet look, did you do the design yourself, how does it sound…? Man, are you trying to get yourself banned around here or something? :W

Ya Jon, you are probably right! What was I thinking? :P I don't want to clutter up your thread so maybe just a few details.
I matched the Scan tweeter with two of Zaph's Z14 mids with two Dayton RS225's covering the bottom end. The cabinet is pretty good size (think statements, but not that tall) and I finished them with walnut veneer, which I ended up really liking. It is a design I put together.
I am really liking the sound. I find the midrange and highs very clear and clean. This was my first time working with a Scan tweeter and I have been amazed. Definitely worth the extra money in my opinion. Curious to hear your impressions when you are all completed!

[WillyD]

Very cool thread Jon. I am one of the lurkers who is fairly interested. I had posted a thread about a bedroom speaker build because I want a new pair of my desk in the bedroom. This project is right down my alley except for price (as others have pointed out). I'd also prefer to pick up a couple of PE cabinets for whatever I build. I feel like I don't have the time or tools to dedicate to a cabinet build.

Still, I do think there is a 'market' out there for a good, relatively small near field desktop monitor.

[JonW]

The view count would seem to indicate there is a lot of interest, $600 doesn't seem too bad for really high-end nearfield design. I guess questions is would Seas Prestige + Scan tweeter be a balanced speaker? And just my opinion but if the performance is close I would vote for the ER15RLY, its a much nicer looking woofer and the price is about the same.

Sounds good. I’ve looked into this some more. I’ll post the latest thoughts in a minute…

As for electronics I have the Firestone Spitfire on my desk and I'm pretty impressed with it, though it is my fist external DAC so my experience is a bit limited.

For the amp you might consider building your own, high quality 4 channel amps might be harder to come by.

Also why 4 speakers?, surround sound for games/movies?

Thanks for the recommendations. I won’t make my own amp. Could be fun but I’d rather do speakers with the limited hobby time that I have. I’ve got more speaker projects in mind after these are done.

I’ve got 2 desks that are perpendicular to each other (like an L). I use both desks and have 2 speakers above each one. So I need to run 2 lefts and 2 rights.

Ya Jon, you are probably right! What was I thinking? :P I don't want to clutter up your thread so maybe just a few details.
I matched the Scan tweeter with two of Zaph's Z14 mids with two Dayton RS225's covering the bottom end. The cabinet is pretty good size (think statements, but not that tall) and I finished them with walnut veneer, which I ended up really liking. It is a design I put together.
I am really liking the sound. I find the midrange and highs very clear and clean. This was my first time working with a Scan tweeter and I have been amazed. Definitely worth the extra money in my opinion. Curious to hear your impressions when you are all completed!

Hey, you’re not out of the woods yet: I don’t see any photos! :W

That sounds like an excellent combo. I’d quite like to hear those Zaph drivers. The look to be great performers. As does this tweeter. Paired the with RS225’s and it looks like it would make for an excellent package. Glad you’re happy with it. :T

Very cool thread Jon. I am one of the lurkers who is fairly interested. I had posted a thread about a bedroom speaker build because I want a new pair of my desk in the bedroom. This project is right down my alley except for price (as others have pointed out). I'd also prefer to pick up a couple of PE cabinets for whatever I build. I feel like I don't have the time or tools to dedicate to a cabinet build.

Still, I do think there is a 'market' out there for a good, relatively small near field desktop monitor.

Cool, thanks. I’m thinking about making a cheaper version. See my thoughts, below. Although for this speaker it won’t work in the PE cabinets. They’ll need the slant and facets for the crossover to work. Have you looked at Roman’s Microbes? They might be more what you are looking for?

http://www.rjbaudio.com/Microbe%20SE/microbe%20SE.html

[JonW]

A cheaper Schlafmutze…

OK, I’ve been thinking more about trying to make a cheaper version of these speakers. As I mentioned in post #111, above, I think I can get it down to $600/pair for drivers + crossovers. Any lower than that will require a new cabinet and I’m not willing to go that far. I looked into more driver options since my last post. Basically, it comes down to keeping with the current Scanspeak tweeter and then swapping the woofer from the W16 to either the ER15RLY or the CA15RLY.

With the woofer swap, I could put them in the cabinets I have and take measurements to make a proper crossover. It would not be much more work, given that I have the cabinet, will already be taking measurements, etc.

Going from the expensive W16 to the cheaper ER15 or CA15 there will be higher distortion and less bass extension. F3 = 95 Hz for these cabinets with the CA or ER versus 80 Hz for the W16.

So which driver to use? The ER15 looks cooler and the similar ER18 is well liked by Jon Marsh and Mark K. But the CA15 has a little bit lower distortion. Price is about the same ($66 and $69), bass output for these cabinets will be about the same, frequency response is about the same. Impedance plots are similar and should be about the same ease for crossover development. Both will fit in the cabinets I have. Any thoughts on woofer preferences?

So I’m thinking about spending the $150 to get a pair of ER15 or CA15 woofers to then make a cheaper speaker in case people are interested. But if someone wants to send me the woofers or buy them when I'm done…

[---k---]

Jon,
Love your spirit. I feel I overspent for the intended use when I built a pair of LineUp D4 ($300) for my work office. But hey, more speaker designs are always better. I love reading about them. Doesn't you're son need some small speakers for his room?

[JonW]

Thanks Ryan. I spend so long on these things that I might as well make the projects good enough to not induce the upgrade itch.

Speaking of the little guy… one of the baby books I read noted that a baby’s cry occurs at the frequencies at which our ears are the most sensitive. Fletcher-Munson curves and all that. Interesting.

[---k---]

Makes perfect sense! That's evolution for you. Babies kept altering their pitch until they got us responding the quickest. Scary!


I understand you going all out. Makes sense. Not judging you. Your office is little different than mine. I keep the volume pretty low during the day, and it is more background music. If I were working till 10:00 the volume level might actually be high enough to distinguish between good and great speakers. My post more referencing the less expensive pair you were considering designing for the masses.

[JonW]

Yeah, I’m pretty fortunate in that I can listen to whatever I want in my office. No one nearby and no boss to tell me to turn it down. I don’t always have music playing but I do more often than not. And, yeah, it’s often background music. Although there are many times when I play music where good speakers should be quite discernable. There’s no free lunch- I have to work around 80 hours many weeks for the privilege.