designing small speakers for near field listening (e.g., desktop)

[Silversmoky]

Looks good Jon! I like the looks of those little guys. Nice drivers.

[jdc0589]

Can't wait to see the results!
Near field listening applications are what I am really interested in; hence my full range project. I sit positioned in between my two full rangers on either side of my monitor; only a total of 2 feet from my head to either driver. Every now and then I use them in another spot with from about 2 meters.

In my opinion, near field or semi-near field setups are the way to go for dedicated audio systems unless you feel confident designing something fantastic like your first M-T project :T (really want to hear those guys).

If you ever feel like a cheap project on the side, I would encourage you to built the 3-Chamber Bass reflex design on Parts Express using the Tang Band W4-1337SA. My project was essentially the same thing using the RS100S and doing all filter work via PC based processing. Couldnt be happier. Im so impressed I will probably end up building another set to Wolf's exact specs with the TB drivers and passive filter network just for a comparrisons sake with my smaller drivers and digital processing. My measurements could have been off (sure sound damn good though), but the info I have taken from my setup read +/- 1.5db from 68hz-19khz. So, the bass extension is there if you want it, just cant go crazy loud.

[recca]

Thanks for the pictures and update Jon. I'm excited to see how this ends up. Looks like you have top notch driver selection there so I'm thinking these are going to turn out right. I'll be following to see the results as well. Keep it up! Its inspiring for the newbies like me.

[eyekode]

Those cabinets look great. I really like the proportion and design. The slight slant make them stand out. Ok, I am going to have to copy them . I will probably use an RS125 and D26NC55 (I have them lying around).

[TacoD]

I wonder if some of the forum veterans can give perspective on how long drivers typically remain available. I really don't know. Computers and consumer electronics get replaced with updated models every year. Cars go 2-3 years w/ a minor update and 4-5 and are completely redesigned.

I have no idea how long a typical drive remains on the market.

The cycle for Scanspeak is 7 - 10 years, but you can still buy the old drivers. The 2010, 8546, 8545 is still available and is from the 90thies if I recall correctly.

[Rolex]

Jon, looking forward to following the progress. The only downside is they will require a sub. I'll bet when they are done the new scan tweeter with the W16 woofer will be pretty sweet!

[JonW]

Can't wait to see the results!
Near field listening applications are what I am really interested in; hence my full range project. I sit positioned in between my two full rangers on either side of my monitor; only a total of 2 feet from my head to either driver. Every now and then I use them in another spot with from about 2 meters.

In my opinion, near field or semi-near field setups are the way to go for dedicated audio systems unless you feel confident designing something fantastic like your first M-T project :T (really want to hear those guys).

If you ever feel like a cheap project on the side, I would encourage you to built the 3-Chamber Bass reflex design on Parts Express using the Tang Band W4-1337SA. My project was essentially the same thing using the RS100S and doing all filter work via PC based processing. Couldnt be happier. Im so impressed I will probably end up building another set to Wolf's exact specs with the TB drivers and passive filter network just for a comparrisons sake with my smaller drivers and digital processing. My measurements could have been off (sure sound damn good though), but the info I have taken from my setup read +/- 1.5db from 68hz-19khz. So, the bass extension is there if you want it, just cant go crazy loud.

Hi jdc. Yes, I read the thread here about your full range project. Interesting and really impressive how flat you have it. Glad you’re happy with it. For near field listening, a full range approach definitely has a lot of merits. :T All the sound coming from one place (no T/W blend problems), smaller baffle/front footprint. I figure that splitting the work between a T and W will make each sound a little better so I’m going the MT direction. But I definitely see where a full range project also makes a lot of sense.

Jon, looking forward to following the progress. The only downside is they will require a sub. I'll bet when they are done the new scan tweeter with the W16 woofer will be pretty sweet!

Hi Rolex. Yup, will definitely need a sub. I don’t think there’s any way to make a speaker this small and not need a sub. Small is one of the main design challenges here. If you wanted to run these speakers without a sub, I guess you could increase the volume a lot and/or add a port. That won’t change any of the rest of the design as long as you keep the slant, baffle width, and facets around the tweeter. And you certainly have the woodworking and finishing chops to come up with a cool cabinet design of your own. :T Someday I hope to have my skills up to your level.

[JonW]

Looks good Jon! I like the looks of those little guys. Nice drivers.

Thanks for the pictures and update Jon. I'm excited to see how this ends up. Looks like you have top notch driver selection there so I'm thinking these are going to turn out right. I'll be following to see the results as well. Keep it up! Its inspiring for the newbies like me.

Thanks guys. Maybe I’ll use this thread to post updates as they happen. And I’ll start a separate design and build thread when it’s all done.

Those cabinets look great. I really like the proportion and design. The slight slant make them stand out. Ok, I am going to have to copy them . I will probably use an RS125 and D26NC55 (I have them lying around).

Thanks eyekode. Go ahead and copy away. That D26 looks like an impressive tweeter and worth using.

[Operandi]

Nice progress. The cabinets look great, I also like the "Schlafmutzes" name.

While I won't be building these (way out of my budget) I listen to most of my music at the desk so I'm glad to see a near-field design like this. Very cool :T .

Those cabinets look great. I really like the proportion and design. The slight slant make them stand out. Ok, I am going to have to copy them . I will probably use an RS125 and D26NC55 (I have them lying around).

If you do keep us posted, thats definitely a speaker a speaker I could see building (I have the RS125's on hand also).

[JonW]

Nice progress. The cabinets look great, I also like the "Schlafmutzes" name.

Thanks, Operandi. OK, maybe we'll go with "Schlamutzes."

I started the veneering. Cut up all the pieces, added the glue, let dry, added more glue. Ironed on a few pieces. Trimmed some edges. Made some progress but the cabinets are a little complex so the veneering takes some time.

[eyekode]

So how do you veneer a faceted baffle? I have done iron-on for a "normal" cabinet (all 90 degree angles). For this it is easy to trim the extra veneer off. But if your angle is say 15-45 degrees how do you trim the edges? And even then how do you keep extra glue off the adjoining surfaces? Tape them first?

[JonW]

So how do you veneer a faceted baffle?

I think that the answer is “very carefully.”

Actually it’s a bit tricky and I’ll have to report back later on how it goes. Haven’t tried veneering the small Schlafmutze facets yet. For the big Spassvogels I used a utility knife (not retractable) and did most of it by hand. You can’t use a router and flush trim bit because of the lack of 90 degree angles. I tried a veneer saw and, in the end, felt like I could be significantly more precise with the utility knife.

That said, I haven’t yet been able to cut across an entire face and keep the cut line perfectly straight. It looks a little (or a lot?) wobbly. I try to sand that down a little, but you can only sand so much with veneer. With the Spassvogels, they sit across the room so you don’t notice these imperfections. For the smaller and closer Schlafmutzes it may be a different story. Also, I’m using paper-backed veneer so the wobbliness of the cuts show up more.

One of the issues here is that you are not trimming with the grain on at least 2 sides of the veneer piece. So the cutting can get tricky and a little ugly.

Another issue I found, with the larger Spassvogels, is that things might go OK at the larger part of the veneer piece. But as you get to where 2 sides taper down to the narrowest part it becomes more tricky. There is less surface area contacting between the veneer and cabinet (and glue) so the forces induced by trimming can result in the veneer just lifting off the cabinet. This issue may be more of a problem with the smaller Schlafmutzes because all of the veneer pieces are smaller. I’ll try it and see how it goes.

I’ve only veneered 2 projects (Modula MT’s and Spassvogels) so I’m not good at this yet. If anyone else has any input here I wouldn’t mind hearing it.

[Bear]

If you were diligent in picking your BB ply and used mitre cuts instead of flat cuts, your would, in theory have a cabinet-grade face with no seams. You would need veneer tape for the exposed edges of the baffle, but I think the layered effect is kind of cool.

By the way, I'm going to be doing something similar with Excel W15CY's and D26's in the future.

Bill

[JonW]

If you were diligent in picking your BB ply and used mitre cuts instead of flat cuts, your would, in theory have a cabinet-grade face with no seams. You would need veneer tape for the exposed edges of the baffle, but I think the layered effect is kind of cool.

Hi Bill,

Yeah, you could swing it without the veneer. In fact, back when I was making the bigger speakers, I was careful to not get glue over everything. In case I decided to go with the birch-ply-only look. In the photo, below, that taped paper was to prevent getting glue on the cabinets. But, in the end, I preferred the look of the veneer, so I went that way. Plus I needed the veneer to cover up my Bondo incident. I’d think that with a faceted cabinet hiding all of the lines of the ply would be possible but not too easy at all.

By the way, I'm going to be doing something similar with Excel W15CY's and D26's in the future.

Good call. I’d say the W15’s would be my Forum choice of woofers for this project, after the W16’s. And the D26 would be my Forum tweeter choice after the small Scanspeaks here. My main problem with the D26 is that it’s discontinued. So if I design the speaker and someone wants to copy it later, they won ‘t be able to. Then again, using $200 drivers pretty much means that no one will want to build these things. But at least I’ll put a design out there in the spirit of giving a little back to the community.

[Jed]

My main problem with the D26 is that it’s discontinued. [/IMG]

You keep saying this and it's not true according to Madisound. Call Madisound and they'll tell you Vifa brought this tweeter back from the dead. They (Madisound) also took it off the discontinued list in the dealer catalog. What Tymphany puts on it's website, and what it does with its dealers are two different things.

[JonW]

Hi Jed. Sounds like you have more info than I do on this. I’m just going by...

1) What I saw (and still see) as it listed as discontinued on the Tympany web site:

http://www.tymphany.com/d26nc-55-06

2) From when I spoke with a couple guys at Madisound about it. They said that if Tymphany showed it as discontinued, that was probably the story. They had no info to the contrary.

This was back in warmer months when I was picking drivers for this project. Seems like things may well have changed since then. If you’ve posted about that recently I missed it. OK, I’ll stop bringing it up.

[Bear]

Hi Jed. Sounds like you have more info than I do on this. I’m just going by...

1) What I saw (and still see) as it listed as discontinued on the Tympany web site:

http://www.tymphany.com/d26nc-55-06

2) From when I spoke with a couple guys at Madisound about it. They said that if Tymphany showed it as discontinued, that was probably the story. They had no info to the contrary.

This was back in warmer months when I was picking drivers for this project. Seems like things may well have changed since then. If you’ve posted about that recently I missed it. OK, I’ll stop bringing it up.

If Tymphany is like a lot of companies going through a major re-org (carving off a sizeable component business), then don't necessarily expect complete attention being paid to some of the details of the day-to-day business. I bought five D26s to have one for a NeoD build and the two pairs of bookshelf speakers (probably one pair for my wife's desk and one pair as replacement mini-monitor surrounds). The form factor is great for this application and the price is fairly cheap (to me -- we'll see if I start noticing the "death by a thousand cuts" here in a few months).

Bill

[JonW]

If Tymphany is like a lot of companies going through a major re-org (carving off a sizeable component business), then don't necessarily expect complete attention being paid to some of the details of the day-to-day business. I bought five D26s to have one for a NeoD build and the two pairs of bookshelf speakers (probably one pair for my wife's desk and one pair as replacement mini-monitor surrounds). The form factor is great for this application and the price is fairly cheap (to me -- we'll see if I start noticing the "death by a thousand cuts" here in a few months).

Bill

Yeah, times are tough out there. No idea what's going on with Tymphany. I think someone posted about the company splitting out some of the brands. Sounds like Jed and I got perfectly opposite answers to the same question. Maybe even they don't know what's going on.

Yup, the D26 is a nice tweeter in that it performs well and is physically small. With those characteristics, there's not too terribly much around to compete with it until you get up to the $200 range.

Embrace the "death by a thousand cuts." It's how you acquire cool toys. :P :W

[Jed]

Sounds like Jed and I got perfectly opposite answers to the same question. Maybe even they don't know what's going on.

Well, in May, the D26 was listed as discontinued in my dealer catalog. In Aug, which is the most current pdf, it is now listed in the regular stock driver section. I guess I could call again and find out the latest. I called and found out the last time you posted this info, IIRC- and that's what they told me. I spoke to Adam or Josh, can't remember.

[Bear]

No idea what's going on with Tymphany. I think someone posted about the company splitting out some of the brands.

ScanSpeak is being bought out by its management. Vifa, Peerless, etc. are being left with the surviving entity.

It's how you acquire cool toys. :P :W

Toys are alwasy good. Of course, my wife would argue that my projector habit provides me enough toys. In reality, I'm going to enjoy finding something new to learn as a hobby.

[JonW]

Well, in May, the D26 was listed as discontinued in my dealer catalog. In Aug, which is the most current pdf, it is now listed in the regular stock driver section. I guess I could call again and find out the latest. I called and found out the last time you posted this info, IIRC- and that's what they told me. I spoke to Adam or Josh, can't remember.

Oh, I didn't realize that it was relisted as available in a dealer catalog. If you posted that somewhere, I missed it. Good news for the community. :T The D26 has a lot of things going for it, not to mention all the designs already based on it.

Toys are alwasy good. Of course, my wife would argue that my projector habit provides me enough toys. In reality, I'm going to enjoy finding something new to learn as a hobby.

Yeah, building speakers is a fun time. I'm still far from an expert but I find it quite enjoyable. If you tell your wife that it keeps you away from oh... say... buying more projectors, drinking, chasing skirts, and the like, maybe she'll be OK with it. :W

[---k---]

If you tell your wife that it keeps you away from oh... say... buying more projectors, drinking, chasing skirts, and the like, maybe she'll be OK with it. :W

That's the logic I used to justify all of my monsters.

[JonW]

In the unlikely event that anyone is interested in this mini MT project…

It’s alive again. I got a small amount of time to get into veneering the cabinets. Not done yet. But I can say that veneering the tiny facets is a bit tricky. I was using the iron-on PVA glue method. And there’s just not enough surface area to bond the facet veneer piece with enough strength to allow trimming, without it falling off. So here’s a non-traditional woodworking tip I found to be OK: super glue.

When I get farther along (e.g., measurements) I’ll start up a whole design and build thread. For now I might just drop updates into this thread.

[Operandi]

Should be a really amazing small speaker, keep the updates coming! It's bit out of my $$ range so I probably won't be building it but I'll defiantly be following with interest.

[JonW]

Thanks Operandi.

The cost of the project is actually a little lower than it was before. The tweeter price has dropped from $200 down to $126, for some reason. So all the drivers for a pair of these speakers will be a hair under $700.

Not sure what the crossover will cost. But the size constraints of the project will mean that I’ll be going for smaller sized caps and inductors for a given value. Near as I can tell, the more expensive caps tend to be larger. Like the Clarity SA’s I used in the Spassvogels are much bigger, for a given value, that the Solens. So the size constraints may help keep the crossover cost down. We’ll see.

(Is this always true? Are there any high quality small caps?)

I got a little more veneering done last night. Still more to do. I’ll post pics of the cabinets when all the veneer is in place.

[Cyan]

Jed is building a pair of nearfield speakers too. I asked him to make them with flat frequency response down to 80hz, accordingly to the position they'll have in my room.
I have a custom subwoofer. It's an infinite baffle 10'' peerless xls. It doesn't get very linearly down to 20hz. But i don't have enough space for the 12'' version, also, i don't have the money for that ^^.
And maybe the 10'' is "faster".
Being custom, the subwoofer is very cheap, i think i paid it 370 in euros (shipping included), and i believe it can compare to subwoofer up to 1000 euros. That is, if you consider quality, not quantity.
I'm not sure i can write about the speakers yet. After i'll receive them, and fully test them, i'll write a review, if jed is fine with that.

One thing i want to say is that if you look at the IN ROOM frequency response of 99% speakers (commercial speakers in particular), they have a roll-off in the very high frequencies, let's say after 8khz.
We've been discussing about his in an italian forum lately.
While with a nearfield speaker this problem is very limited.
Also, i believe that with small speakers + sub you can have the imaging that all small speakers have, but the quantity of much larger speaker (i believe that few 2.5 way with 6.5'' woofers can compare to my 10''...).
The only problem is trying to have a flat frequencies in the bottom frequencies...with all those room resonances.

[AlanH]

Hey Jon,

Glad to hear you're out from under your paper- and grant-induced isolation. I may have missed where you made the decision, but I assume from the pics that you've decided to make these sealed rather than ported...

Also, I like the improvisation with the superglue... :rofl:

[johngalt47]

I'm interested

I am interested in the complete model numbers and crossover network. I'm assuming a BOM is forthcoming sometime in the future...

[AlanH]

I am interested in the complete model numbers and crossover network. I'm assuming a BOM is forthcoming sometime in the future...

The tweeter is one of the Scan Illuminators, D3004/602010, and the woofer is a Seas Excel, W16NX-001 (E0049-08 ). Driver testing for both units is available on Zaph Audio.

I don't think Jon's done any inbox measurements yet, so the network is still locked up in that head of his!

[JonW]

Jed is building a pair of nearfield speakers too. I asked him to make them with flat frequency response down to 80hz, accordingly to the position they'll have in my room.
I have a custom subwoofer. It's an infinite baffle 10'' peerless xls. It doesn't get very linearly down to 20hz. But i don't have enough space for the 12'' version, also, i don't have the money for that ^^.
And maybe the 10'' is "faster".
Being custom, the subwoofer is very cheap, i think i paid it 370 in euros (shipping included), and i believe it can compare to subwoofer up to 1000 euros. That is, if you consider quality, not quantity.
I'm not sure i can write about the speakers yet. After i'll receive them, and fully test them, i'll write a review, if jed is fine with that.

One thing i want to say is that if you look at the IN ROOM frequency response of 99% speakers (commercial speakers in particular), they have a roll-off in the very high frequencies, let's say after 8khz.
We've been discussing about his in an italian forum lately.
While with a nearfield speaker this problem is very limited.
Also, i believe that with small speakers + sub you can have the imaging that all small speakers have, but the quantity of much larger speaker (i believe that few 2.5 way with 6.5'' woofers can compare to my 10''...).
The only problem is trying to have a flat frequencies in the bottom frequencies...with all those room resonances.

Hi Cyan,

Welcome to htguide. :T So do you have any details about the nearfield speakers from Jed? Sounds like it could be an interesting design. :T

I’ve not noticed much of a high frequency roll off in speakers. Well, you will certainly get that if you take measurements (or listen) off axis. And yes, some tweeters do roll off a bit before reaching 20,000 Hz. So I guess I see where you’re coming from. But like you also said, this might be less of a problem with near field speakers. As I described in post #1 of this thread, I will try and take into account many factors to make a good near field speaker. And I will probably also make a “regular” version of the crossover, for placement on a stand, out from a wall.

[JonW]

Hey Jon,

Glad to hear you're out from under your paper- and grant-induced isolation.

Thanks, man. Ugh, not a super pleasant 4 months of writing 7 days a week. Hopefully it will all be worth the effort.

I meant to drop you an email to let you know that this project is back and I’m making a little progress. I’m using the 8 ohm W16’s. That’s what you’ve got too, correct? There are also the 4 ohm ones, but I’d consider those a little less desirable, at least for my purposes.

I may have missed where you made the decision, but I assume from the pics that you've decided to make these sealed rather than ported...

I don’t think I mentioned it, specifically. But yeah, they’ll have to be sealed. The big design constraint here has been to keep the speakers as small as possible but to also be able to play well down to 80 Hz so you can reach a sub without any problems. I looked into ported versus sealed options with many drivers. In the end I think that the Seas W16 and sealed is the best way to go. Ported or other drivers with low distortion get you to much larger volumes.

Also, I like the improvisation with the superglue... :rofl:

Well, I guess glue is kind of my thing.

[JonW]

I am interested in the complete model numbers and crossover network. I'm assuming a BOM is forthcoming sometime in the future...

Hi John,

Yup, Alan has it right. (Thanks, Alan.) Those are the drivers for the project. The cabinets are slanted and faceted, as shown in the photos above. I’ll give very specific details on the cabinet build in the future build and design thread.

Work that’s still needed before I can have a BOM: Finish veneering the cabinets, add a finish layer to the cabinets, take measurements, cook up a crossover, then voice the crossover.

If there are any other details or thoughts you’re curious about, feel free to ask.

I don't think Jon's done any inbox measurements yet, so the network is still locked up in that head of his!

Nothing stays locked up in here for long. It’s really much more like a sieve.

[Cyan]

Well, about the speakers he's building, they're made of seas magnesium and fountek ribbon.

One particular thing about nearfield speakers, that i've noticed with my actual speakers (actually, i've already sold them).
The speakers, that are on the desk, are lower than my ears ( i have a quite high chair). If i play a test tone in the crossover frequency region, i'll notice the 2 drivers going out of phase. And if i move the head horizontally, i'll see the frequency response change a lot.
If i lower my head to tweeter or woofer/tweeter (even better) intersection insted, the 2 drivers will be in phase, and i can freely move horizontally without any change in the frequency response, nor will i hear any hole.
I believe that the best solution to this, is to simply put something under the front spykes to make the front spykes higher, that is, the speakers will be inclined upwards. Ofc you won't have a problem if your chair is lower, but doctors say (and i've experimented it too), that if your forearm is 90° from the rest of the arm (so you have to sit quite high compared to the desk) you'll feel less arm pain ^^ .

[Operandi]

Not sure what the crossover will cost. But the size constraints of the project will mean that I’ll be going for smaller sized caps and inductors for a given value. Near as I can tell, the more expensive caps tend to be larger. Like the Clarity SA’s I used in the Spassvogels are much bigger, for a given value, that the Solens. So the size constraints may help keep the crossover cost down. We’ll see.

An external crossover could always be an option.

Well, about the speakers he's building, they're made of seas magnesium and fountek ribbon.

Interesting, is this a design Jed is going to publish or sell is it a one off custom project?

[Cyan]

It's a custom project, based on what i wished. Of course he adapted the project, as i'm not a diy expert. He was also disponible to explain me the changes he had to make from what i asked.
But i believe he can make those speakers for other people too, after they'll be completed. And he always has a price that is near to the cost.

[JonW]

An external crossover could always be an option.

Absolutely. I’m constantly trying to think about keeping these speakers small (yet reach a sub at 80 Hz). So internal xovers are on my mind. But external would work, maybe even better, if you’re willing to use the space.

Well, about the speakers he's building, they're made of seas magnesium and fountek ribbon.

Sounds interesting. This speaker, here, will be my first experience with a Seas magnesium. We’ll see how they sound.

One particular thing about nearfield speakers, that i've noticed with my actual speakers (actually, i've already sold them).
The speakers, that are on the desk, are lower than my ears ( i have a quite high chair). If i play a test tone in the crossover frequency region, i'll notice the 2 drivers going out of phase. And if i move the head horizontally, i'll see the frequency response change a lot.
If i lower my head to tweeter or woofer/tweeter (even better) intersection insted, the 2 drivers will be in phase, and i can freely move horizontally without any change in the frequency response, nor will i hear any hole.
I believe that the best solution to this, is to simply put something under the front spykes to make the front spykes higher, that is, the speakers will be inclined upwards. Ofc you won't have a problem if your chair is lower, but doctors say (and i've experimented it too), that if your forearm is 90° from the rest of the arm (so you have to sit quite high compared to the desk) you'll feel less arm pain ^^ .

Yes, I think you’re finding that things will sound better when you’re on axis and your ears at at the same height as the tweeter. Makes sense.

For the small speakers I’m making here, I’ll keep them on shelves above my desk, exactly to keep the tweeters as close to ear level as I can. (And to avoid bass bounce from the desk.)

[JonW]

Veneering is complete.

I got fancy and drilled the binding posts at an 8.5 degree angle with respect to the rear of the cabinet. So the binding posts will be parallel to the floor. I also got a deep gash in my thumb when trimming the veneer. D’oh and ouch.

Next up is finishing the cabinets. Before I can start the measurements I have to build some temporary stands to put the speakers on. Those will be useful for the voicing, too. And I have to solder up a whole bunch of wires with clips on the ends.

A CD case is in the photo for scale. These won’t be the tiniest speakers ever. But they are as small as you can get and still play down to 80 Hz for crossover to a sub.

[xyrium]

They look great, and progress? I'm dying to put together a good nearfield design. I recall you mentioning a cutoff of 80Hz, but what do yuo think their -3dB will be? I'd love to see something in the 60Hz range!

[Cyan]

Just wanted to say that Jed has finished building my nearfield speakers.
Here you can find some basic information: http://clearwave.forumotion.net/kit-...-or-so-t50.htm

[JonW]

Just wanted to say that Jed has finished building my nearfield speakers.
Here you can find some basic information: http://clearwave.forumotion.net/kit-...-or-so-t50.htm

Those look gorgeous! :T

[JonW]

They look great, and progress? I'm dying to put together a good nearfield design. I recall you mentioning a cutoff of 80Hz, but what do yuo think their -3dB will be? I'd love to see something in the 60Hz range!

Thanks, xyrium. Yep, I’ve got a little more progress on these speakers. The cabinets are all finished, as shown in the photo below. 7 coats so it took a while. When I’m a little farther along I’ll write up a detailed build and design thread.

I need a sub to go along with these speakers. So I’ve been working on that lately. The pics below show the body and the top of the sub. Soon they’ll be glued together. Building the sub is what has kept me from pushing the speakers along farther.

With the sub nearing completion I’ll be back at the speakers in the near future. I’ve got to make some wires to wire them up, take measurements, get an initial crossover, and then voice the crossover. I think I’ll make 2 versions of the crossover- one for the speakers up against a wall and one for having the speakers out from the walls as is more typical.

Regarding bass output, I just did some very rough calculations… With my small, sealed cabinets the -3 dB point is about 80 Hz. Should be good for crossing to a sub at the typical 80 Hz. You could easily get more bass out of this woofer. Keeping it sealed, I’m using it at about the optimal volume (hence my choice of this woofer, among other considerations). So going to a bigger box won’t help much. However if you go ported you can get a lot more bass out of the W16. Ported I’m seeing a -3 dB point of about 45 Hz. That cabinet size is twice what I’m using here. You could get less bass than 45 Hz using a smaller cabinet. Either way you would have to expand the cabinets to go lower and/or deeper. But the front baffle around the tweeter (and the woofer, to some degree) would have to be kept constant- keep the facets, baffle width, slant, etc. the same.

I hope that all helps.

[xyrium]

That's Jed, always moving. Fantastic result there. Love the BE maple! Seems like a nice response curve. Down about 6 at 60 if I'm seeing this correctly.

Just wanted to say that Jed has finished building my nearfield speakers.
Here you can find some basic information: http://clearwave.forumotion.net/kit-...-or-so-t50.htm

[xyrium]

Hi Jon,

Wow, you're keeping busy! What driver are you using for for the sub?

I certainly don't mind going bigger in the cab to get down to 50Hz with some level of snap. If I could find a design that gets down to F3@50 with very low distortion, I'd be very happy. Of course, that brings me back to the ZRT and SR71 designs with a modified crossover for nearfield I suppose. Getting 50Hz from an acoustic suspension design would probably require a 10" woofer. :roll:

Thanks, xyrium. Yep, I’ve got a little more progress on these speakers. The cabinets are all finished, as shown in the photo below. 7 coats so it took a while. When I’m a little farther along I’ll write up a detailed build and design thread.

I need a sub to go along with these speakers. So I’ve been working on that lately. The pics below show the body and the top of the sub. Soon they’ll be glued together. Building the sub is what has kept me from pushing the speakers along farther.

With the sub nearing completion I’ll be back at the speakers in the near future. I’ve got to make some wires to wire them up, take measurements, get an initial crossover, and then voice the crossover. I think I’ll make 2 versions of the crossover- one for the speakers up against a wall and one for having the speakers out from the walls as is more typical.

Regarding bass output, I just did some very rough calculations… With my small, sealed cabinets the -3 dB point is about 80 Hz. Should be good for crossing to a sub at the typical 80 Hz. You could easily get more bass out of this woofer. Keeping it sealed, I’m using it at about the optimal volume (hence my choice of this woofer, among other considerations). So going to a bigger box won’t help much. However if you go ported you can get a lot more bass out of the W16. Ported I’m seeing a -3 dB point of about 45 Hz. That cabinet size is twice what I’m using here. You could get less bass than 45 Hz using a smaller cabinet. Either way you would have to expand the cabinets to go lower and/or deeper. But the front baffle around the tweeter (and the woofer, to some degree) would have to be kept constant- keep the facets, baffle width, slant, etc. the same.

I hope that all helps.

[Cyan]

yours are very nice JonW too.

Xyrium, if you want a -3 of 60hz, you may try the 7'' accuton for sealed cabinet (wich is much more expensive though). But you'd need a MUCH bigger cabinet than mine.
If you haven't got a space problem you have lots of choices, or else, it's very hard to get a -3db with such a small cabinet.

[xyrium]

yours are very nice JonW too.

Xyrium, if you want a -3 of 60hz, you may try the 7'' accuton for sealed cabinet (wich is much more expensive though). But you'd need a MUCH bigger cabinet than mine.
If you haven't got a space problem you have lots of choices, or else, it's very hard to get a -3db with such a small cabinet.

Hi Cyan,

Thanks for the suggestion. I wasn't going to attempt my own design, I was hoping to build someone else's since I'm certainly not experienced in the design category and have only built one other design, which was Zaph's old L15. As far as space is concerned, I need these to be desktop monitors for nearfield listening purposes. I will be playing a guitar, drums, and other instruments through them. So, essentially, basic studio monitors (ie: PMC, Klein&Hummel, Genelec, Lipinski, etc.) I'll probably be listening to them at a distance of about 5ft.

If there's a simple way to factor that into a preexisting crossover design, then I'm all set, because I like the ideas represented by Zaph's ZRT and SR71 designs. I would just need to know what to change/remove.

Enjoy your new monitors though, they are beauties!

Rgds
Paul