Test household electricity quality

[maximumshow]

Hi everyone. I was unsure where to post this question, but figured it fell under DIY.

I have recently suspected my household power quality to be bad. I have had several tvs die, a dvd recorder, and now my main PC has either a dead PSU or motherboard.

I have searched everywhere looking for a way to simply test the power at the wall socket. Should I only be concerned with voltage fluctuations, or could line noise be killing my equipment? What can I do?

I figure this information will also be advantageous to the audio crowd, as this place was the first I could think of to come looking for an answer to my problem.

I seem to remember ThomasW having worked with line conditioners and the like.

Thank you!

[Amphiprion]

If things are just dying, it's very likely power spikes and not line noise. Look into a whole house surge arrestor first. The dinky little metal oxide varistor power strip surge protectors are going to fail you in short order if you are already having voltage spike problems.

[ThomasW]

Yes you can measure the power but that will only tell you what's happening at that moment.

My AC runs high, 125V, so I use a special transformer to reduce it to 120V for the A/V equipment. What I use is a special tranny with different fixed 'taps', it's not the stereotypic ferro-resonant trannys most use in this situation.

As Mark said a whole house surge protector is the way to go. I had one installed when the main panel to my house was updated.

We've had a few threads about power conditioning. Good conditioners aren't cheap. What's your budget for this?

[Bent]

I use a Hioki 3169 , but I'm in a different situation w.r.t. test equipment availability than most.

[maximumshow]

Well first I would like to do a series of tests to see how bad/good my levels are. I am assuming I can use a simple multimeter to test line voltage, but I'm unsure if I am supposed to directly connect it to the socket hot/neutral, or if I have to run it in parallel with a load. Any tips will be welcomed.

If I end up needing a conditioner my budget will fluctuate based on severity. However I was thinking of picking up a Furman pl-8 II for my PC and possibly for my audio gear. They run in the $140-160 region.

I suspect the hoki 3169 is far outside of my testing budget. I'd love to try one, but I believe I'll need a DIY testing solution.

[Bent]

The 3160 prior to accessories is approx $15 000.

[GregLett]

Just invest a few hundred in a power conditioner from APC, Monster, Tripp lite etc.. They will be fine for your HT and audio. Take a look at the different models they carry and I think you will find one that suites your needs and budget.

My house voltage sometimes goes up to 130V (found that out when I purchased my APC) With the trouble you are having you might even have an under voltage
condition. I only lost one CD player before I got the APC.

[Amphiprion]

If you really want to know what's going on, buy borrow or rent one of these:

http://www.myflukestore.com/p5824/fluke_vr1710.php

But seriously, get the whole house arrestor before anything else.

[chasw98]

Here in Florida "The Lightning Capital of the World", you can just call the power company and they will come out and install a chart recorder for a week or so that will measure voltage swings, spikes, over voltage, undervoltage, current irregularities, etc. for free! Try giving them a call if you want to investigate on the cheap. But listen to Mark, you will probably be investing in some form of whole house protection. Remember some models of protection require a licensed electrician to do the install in order for the warranty to kick in. Read the fine print......

[maximumshow]

Here in Florida "The Lightning Capital of the World", you can just call the power company and they will come out and install a chart recorder for a week or so that will measure voltage swings, spikes, over voltage, undervoltage, current irregularities, etc. for free! Try giving them a call if you want to investigate on the cheap. But listen to Mark, you will probably be investing in some form of whole house protection. Remember some models of protection require a licensed electrician to do the install in order for the warranty to kick in. Read the fine print......

That's a great idea. I will try it out.

I may end up being lucky or unlucky based on the fact that my utility company is quite small. I live in one of the only cities in North America with it's own power generating station (hydro). It's also one of the oldest hydro plants in NA, but has been uprgraded numerous times. Our power rates are also quite cheap relative to most.

[Bent]

the fact that the utility is smaller might just be the cause of the potential problems you are having. Hydraulic generation gets system stability from "rotating mass", or inertia from the generators that physically absorb transients. If your local utility isn't interconnected to the remainder of the grid then any industrial level switching or load variances could have a rapid transient effect on your voltage and frequency stability. A good UPS/conditioner would alleviate a lot of that.
Sometimes, when the utility knows that they are indeed the cause of the trouble they are much less willing to help solve the problem.

[maximumshow]

They are definitely part of the grid. I just meant that because of the small company size they may not have much in terms of resources to lend out. On the other hand, being small sometimes means better service is offered.

[Bent]

OK - now I get ya.

[maximumshow]

I heard of several people who had their power supplies die at the same time, in nearly the same area.

Also, my house tested at about 125-126V at any one time, which is high but still within spec I believe.

For the time being I would rather get a non-panel mount device, but I am unsure of what brand to go for. So far I have Furman, and Brickwall/zero surge on my list. I read that there is confusion out there whether or not furman uses the same technology as BW/ZS. A surge protector with non self sacrificing components would give me more peace of mind.

I am also interested in any good/high end DIY solutions for surge protection, and if they have power conditioning then all the better.

[ThomasW]

Furman uses a series filtration like the BW stuff. Furman also employs high current MOV's which are supposedly non-sacrificial. I'm not sure how that works. My guess is that Furman's philosophy is 'ultimately we'd rather sacrifice the MOVs than risk killing whatever pieces of pro-sound gear are plugged into the unit'.

It's pretty well known I big on DIY, but I think surge protection is best left to the pros. And that it should start with a whole house device ...

http://www.tech-home.com/product_info.php?products_id=990&language=en&cPath=80

http://www.westsidewholesale.com/index.cgi?pid=976143&CATEGORY=560&source=ad3

If you're still a hardcore DIY guy here's a link to Jon Risch's design...http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/surge.htm

My panel mount whole house unit contains MOVs. There's a indicator light that goes out if the unit needs replacing. So far it's still good after 5+yrs of operation.

In addition to the whole house unit I also use stand-alone Furman sequencers as remote triggers. Their sequencers contain surge protection systems..

[GregLett]

Furman uses a series filtration like the BW stuff. Furman also employs high current MOV's which are supposedly non-sacrificial. I'm not sure how that works. My guess is that Furman's philosophy is 'ultimately we'd rather sacrifice the MOVs than risk killing whatever pieces of pro-sound gear are plugged into the unit'.

It's pretty well known I big on DIY, but I think surge protection is best left to the pros. And that it should start with a whole house device ...

http://www.tech-home.com/product_info.php?products_id=990&language=en&cPath=80

http://www.westsidewholesale.com/index.cgi?pid=976143&CATEGORY=560&source=ad3

If you're still a hardcore DIY guy here's a link to Jon Risch's design...http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/surge.htm

My panel mount whole house unit contains MOVs. There's a indicator light that goes out if the unit needs replacing. So far it's still good after 5+yrs of operation.

In addition to the whole house unit I also use stand-alone Furman sequencers as remote triggers. Their sequencers contain surge protection systems..

Are you using one of these for "the whole house" and not just a branch circuit?

[ThomasW]

The main 200 amp panel has a whole house surge protector.

Circuits coming off the main panel that are powering A/V systems, have Equi=Tech "Q" balanced power trannys and all but one have Furman sequencers.

A head of it's Equi=tech tranny, one 20 amp circuit (without a sequencer) has 2-66lb ganged isolation trannys. One of these trannys has multiple taps to stabilize the line voltage at 120VAC. These trannys are run at saturation. Doing this allows that one line to provide up to 25 amps for a brief period.

Clear now.... :B

[GregLett]

The main 200 amp panel has a whole house surge protector.

Circuits coming off the main panel that are powering A/V systems, have Equi=Tech "Q" balanced power trannys and all but one have Furman sequencers.

A head of it's Equi=tech tranny, one 20 amp circuit (without a sequencer) has 2-66lb ganged isolation trannys. One of these trannys has multiple taps to stabilize the line voltage at 120VAC. These trannys are run at saturation. Doing this allows that one line to provide up to 25 amps for a brief period.

Clear now.... :B

I'm clear on how a whole house surge protector works, I was referring to the links in the last post. That product stated it is installed on a 20 to 30 amps circuit breaker. That's why I was asking.

If I ever do a whole house solution I would use something like a Liebert. I liked the Equi=Tech stuff also, for now an APC does the trick.

[ThomasW]

Those were just links that popped up in a quick and dirty google search.

The smaller units may make sense for people who don't want or need anything more than the circuits in their AV room.

[Hdale85]

Hmm I may have to talk to you when I eventually buy a house Thomas Your setup sounds nice. So every outlet in your house shows a constant 120v? Sounds like an awesome setup with some pretty good filtration.

[ThomasW]

So every outlet in your house shows a constant 120v? Sounds like an awesome setup with some pretty good filtration.

No just the dedicated line with the isolation trannys..

[GregLett]

Those were just links that popped up in a quick and dirty google search.

The smaller units may make sense for people who don't want or need anything more than the circuits in their AV room.

Yea. I was going to do my room, but first I need to upgrade my service.
SO the Equi=Tech was pushed down on the "to do" list.
sigh.. long list short pockets! :cry:

[ThomasW]

Yea. I was going to do my room, but first I need to upgrade my service.

Ouch! that's really $pendy... 8O

[Homebrew]

Have you noticed the following?
If you have a bad connection at the neutral you can have a large swing on one leg (overvoltage) and at the same time a low voltage on the other leg. On a 200 amp service if you turn on a motor and some of the lights in your house get brighter and at the excact same time some lights get dimmer you have a open neutral and this can burn up stuff connected to the circuit. I have seen 140 VAC spikes that last a long time measured at an outlet. If you notice this call the utility and have them check for open neutral. This happened to me once but got it repaired before I lost any equipment or appliances.

[chasw98]

The main 200 amp panel has a whole house surge protector.

Circuits coming off the main panel that are powering A/V systems, have Equi=Tech "Q" balanced power trannys and all but one have Furman sequencers.

A head of it's Equi=tech tranny, one 20 amp circuit (without a sequencer) has 2-66lb ganged isolation trannys. One of these trannys has multiple taps to stabilize the line voltage at 120VAC. These trannys are run at saturation. Doing this allows that one line to provide up to 25 amps for a brief period.

Clear now.... :B

A side effect of balanced power.............

I was a believer in 'Whole House Surge Protection' and then Thomas told me about the EQUI=TECH balanced transformers. What they do is provide 2 legs of 60 volts each as opposed to 1 leg at 120 volts and 1 leg at 0 volts. By providing 2 equal legs for the AC circuit, you will find noise cancelling occurring on the AC line. There is a measurable and audible noise floor reduction by using balanced power. Just a by product and one of the reasons to invest in balanced power.

Chuck