Has anyone looked at Earl Geddes Nathan10?

[penngray]

JBL knows all about OS waveguides as they worked with Earl to try to patent them back in the day. They even advertise them in their consumer line.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=ES90BK&Language=ENG&Country=us&Region=USA&cat=BFS&ser=ES

"The tweeter is mounted in our proprietary Elliptical Oblate Spheroidal™ (EOS) waveguide for improved high-frequency dispersion anywhere in the listening room."

But no bigger OS waveguides on their pro lines, instead they still use the "other" horn designs. I just wonder why that is?

[Dennis H]

But no bigger OS waveguides on their pro lines, instead they still use the "other" horn designs. I just wonder why that is?

Well, according to Zilch, the others work better for their purposes. I guess we'd have to assume that's true as they've known about OS for nearly 20 years. For one thing, they don't have the on-axis hole up high like Earl's round horns. For another, pro horns usually have a very narrow vertical dispersion and we don't really know how well that works with an OS profile. Even their megabuck 'audiophile' speaker, the K2, uses bi-radial horns (shrug).

http://jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=K2S9800DG&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=BFS&ser=K2

[ThomasW]

Even their megabuck 'audiophile' speaker, the K2, uses bi-radial horns (shrug)

The K2 S9800's sound good enough Ayre used a pair of them at the CES for the launch of their $32K/pr MRX monoblocks . The stock JBL crossover was replaced with one just a wee bit more sophisticated....

[penngray]

Well, according to Zilch, the others work better for their purposes. I guess we'd have to assume that's true as they've known about OS for nearly 20 years. For one thing, they don't have the on-axis hole up high like Earl's round horns. For another, pro horns usually have a very narrow vertical dispersion and we don't really know how well that works with an OS profile. Even their megabuck 'audiophile' speaker, the K2, uses bi-radial horns (shrug).

http://jbl.com/home/products/product...cat=BFS&ser=K2

I have heard the K2s and they are worth the $$$, Im a big fan of their looks too. I would love to source a bi-radial horn for a DIY design.

I have to really defined my goals and purpose and stick to it, all these great threads, great ideas, great products make me change them daily

[Dennis H]

I would love to source a bi-radial horn for a DIY design.

This is one Wayne Parham uses in his Pi kits.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-554

[ThomasW]

To copy the K2 you'll need to find a source for JBL Sonoglass H9800 horns or something similar since JBL doesn't sell these individually

H9800 is 1.5" throat, and not for sale; none of the TOTL JBL Consumer horns are, which is why I stick to the Pro offerings, except in my own systems, which I rarely show. H9800 has also been superseded. There have been several attempts to clone them, but no one has yet done it perfectly, and only one has come close, despite the drawings being available. Getting them to play well below 800 Hz is dubious. They are constant directivity; no Tractrix can match their performance, not even Coytee's big Klipschs.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2719040&postcount=2

[penngray]

This is one Wayne Parham uses in his Pi kits.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-554

Thanks Dennis, I have seen those bi-radial options but to me they do not look the same as the K2 bi-radial horns, quality wise.

[AJINFLA]

Any guesses for how low that device maintains pattern control? :W the first two don't count. :B

Anyone who puts a dent in their faceplate or baffle now has a "waveguide" Jon. Get with the program :W .
I still waiting for the first person to claim that their flared port boxes have "waveguided" bass .

cheers,

AJ

[Saurav]

I still waiting for the first person to claim that their flared port boxes have "waveguided" bass .

Onkyo

[Geddes]

THis is the first time that I have seen this thread - too bad! Its much better to get both sides of any story. It is quite true that there were several start-up problems with the waveguides, when is that ever not the case. But today the entire process is jiged and comes out, I must say, absolutely impecable.

None of the problems reported here were uncorrectable of even difficult to solve, except JoshK who did get a bad plexigalss plate, which I replace as soon as he pointed this out. I don't use plexiglass anymore - QC problems. They are now polycarbonate - much stronger and machine better. Plexiglass does not machine well at all and it is hydroscoptic. Some dimensional changed were a result of this, some not. The plates fit much better now.

At any rate I am more than please with the QC of the kits as anyone with them will tel you. Paint, is still a big problem for me, and others too as I hear and so I am going to change the cabinet material from MDF to Baltic Birch as this is more stable - MDF just will not stabalize without pro treatment. I hope to be able to change the material with no cost increase, but I'm not sure.

If anyone still has any concerns with there kits please let ME know so that I can correct it. I can't correct what I dn't know about.

[AJINFLA]

Hi Earl,

Have you considered doing something like this so that someone wanting to audition your speakers does not have to travel to MI?

cheers,

AJ

p.s. is there anyone in FL/lower GA area that you think would be open to such an audition (preferably the Summas) ?

[Geddes]

Hi Earl,

Have you considered doing something like this so that someone wanting to audition your speakers does not have to travel to MI?

cheers,

AJ

p.s. is there anyone in FL/lower GA area that you think would be open to such an audition (preferably the Summas) ?

Hi AJ

I don't get it, thats a web site, I have a web site.

Do you mean a list of people who have them and will audition them? Thats a good idea, I'll see what I can do.

But here is what I am going to do, which I think will revolutionize speaker buying on the internet. I am going to binuarally record all of my speakers setup in my room and post those recordings. They will be EQ'd for correct auralization using the Etymotic ER6 insert earphones - which are very good. I am aranging to sell those headphones at cost now. So basically you buy some $50 headphones, download the auralization files, and audition any of my loudspeakers. This does work and there are numerous articles in the AES about how these auralizations produce equivalent results to blind listening tests. The downside is there can only be a few sample songs and short clips at that. But its cheaper than airfare.

I am committed to an internet business model as I think that the dealer model is broken. The dealer takes away 1/2 the price, probably cons you into buying something that isn't really that good and in the end you get nothing for all that money you gave him. This model doesn't work any more and thats why the loudspeaker business is in the shape its in. The old model doesn't work and a new model hasn't been developed. There is no outlet for quality loudspeakers at the current time.

[Monger]

Hi AJ
But here is what I am going to do, which I think will revolutionize speaker buying on the internet. I am going to binuarally record all of my speakers setup in my room and post those recordings. They will be EQ'd for correct auralization using the Etymotic ER6 insert earphones - which are very good. I am aranging to sell those headphones at cost now. So basically you buy some $50 headphones, download the auralization files, and audition any of my loudspeakers. This does work and there are numerous articles in the AES about how these auralizations produce equivalent results to blind listening tests. The downside is there can only be a few sample songs and short clips at that. But its cheaper than airfare.

That's a really need idea. :T

[penngray]

Hi AJ

I don't get it, thats a web site, I have a web site.

Do you mean a list of people who have them and will audition them? Thats a good idea, I'll see what I can do.

But here is what I am going to do, which I think will revolutionize speaker buying on the internet. I am going to binuarally record all of my speakers setup in my room and post those recordings. They will be EQ'd for correct auralization using the Etymotic ER6 insert earphones - which are very good. I am aranging to sell those headphones at cost now. So basically you buy some $50 headphones, download the auralization files, and audition any of my loudspeakers. This does work and there are numerous articles in the AES about how these auralizations produce equivalent results to blind listening tests. The downside is there can only be a few sample songs and short clips at that. But its cheaper than airfare.

I am committed to an internet business model as I think that the dealer model is broken. The dealer takes away 1/2 the price, probably cons you into buying something that isn't really that good and in the end you get nothing for all that money you gave him. This model doesn't work any more and thats why the loudspeaker business is in the shape its in. The old model doesn't work and a new model hasn't been developed. There is no outlet for quality loudspeakers at the current time.

I never knew you could do that....now that is cool. It seems that if everyone can do this it could be a spark for the quality headphones market too

I hope this becomes standard protocol.

Any ETA on this audition setup.

[Geddes]

I never knew you could do that....now that is cool. It seems that if everyone can do this it could be a spark for the quality headphones market too

I hope this becomes standard protocol.

Any ETA on this audition setup.

The problem with this approach is that you have to pick ONE set of headphones and standardize on them. Arbitrary headphones won't be properly EQ'd and the auralization won't be as good.

I hope to do the recordings next week.

[amiklos]

p.s. is there anyone in FL/lower GA area that you think would be open to such an audition (preferably the Summas) ?

AJ,

I'm in Savannah and have one of the early pairs of Nathans. Had to go (relatively) small to appease my wife. Sub setup is not finished yet. Hopefully in August. Let me know if you'd like to have a listen sometime.

[AJINFLA]

Hi AJ

I don't get it, thats a web site, I have a web site.
Do you mean a list of people who have them and will audition them? Thats a good idea, I'll see what I can do.

But here is what I am going to do, which I think will revolutionize speaker buying on the internet. I am going to binuarally record all of my speakers setup in my room and post those recordings. They will be EQ'd for correct auralization using the Etymotic ER6 insert earphones - which are very good. I am aranging to sell those headphones at cost now. So basically you buy some $50 headphones, download the auralization files, and audition any of my loudspeakers. This does work and there are numerous articles in the AES about how these auralizations produce equivalent results to blind listening tests. The downside is there can only be a few sample songs and short clips at that. But its cheaper than airfare.

I am committed to an internet business model as I think that the dealer model is broken. The dealer takes away 1/2 the price, probably cons you into buying something that isn't really that good and in the end you get nothing for all that money you gave him. This model doesn't work any more and thats why the loudspeaker business is in the shape its in. The old model doesn't work and a new model hasn't been developed. There is no outlet for quality loudspeakers at the current time.

Hi Earl,

Yes, I knew you had a website :W. (Still have your first couple chapters about speakers and measurements, etc. Made sure to save & print them, as they were excellent reading material).

It was the latter. A list of people who have them and would be willing to allow auditions, like SL has done with his Orions.
Tom Danley had offered to loan me a set of his speakers from a distributor in Ocala, for me to audition (vs mine) once, but I due to circumstances, it didn't happen. I need to follow up on that sometime. I would like to hear his as well.
I have seen you mention the binaural method before and while very interesting, I would prefer to hear/feel your Summas in the flesh, in a typical living room setup (where they are most likely to end up). Call me a luddite .

Amiklos, thanks for that very gracious offer, I will keep it in mind.

cheers,

AJ

[penngray]

Tom Danley had offered to loan me a set of his speakers from a distributor in Ocala

AJ

I have to contact Danley and see if I could do something similar, Im in Gainesville.