perhaps some advice...Statements or RS 3way

[timdog]

Hello all,
I have lurked a good amount around these forums as I am interested in building a quality 3-way tower as a start to my HT. My room is actually a living room and not a dedicated HT, about 15x20 with cathedral ceilingsgoing from 8' to 15'...the peak parallels the 15 depth. The couch is centered in the room. System will be used for movies, TV and music. I have 2 big openings at the rear of the room to the kitchen and dining room.
I was about to bite on the statements, but am unsure if the off-axis response of the ribbon tweeter effects the SQ too much...then researching the RS 3-way and it's multiple versions, I got myself overly confused. Any advice from those who have sampled both would be much appreciated.

Much thanks in advance for all the good reads this forum has offered.

Tim

[Jim Holtz]

Hello all,
I have lurked a good amount around these forums as I am interested in building a quality 3-way tower as a start to my HT. My room is actually a living room and not a dedicated HT, about 15x20 with cathedral ceilingsgoing from 8' to 15'...the peak parallels the 15 depth. The couch is centered in the room. System will be used for movies, TV and music. I have 2 big openings at the rear of the room to the kitchen and dining room.
I was about to bite on the statements, but am unsure if the off-axis response of the ribbon tweeter effects the SQ too much...then researching the RS 3-way and it's multiple versions, I got myself overly confused. Any advice from those who have sampled both would be much appreciated.

Much thanks in advance for all the good reads this forum has offered.

Tim

Hi Tim,

I won't tell you which to pick but I will tell you that horizontal off axis dispersion is superior with a ribbon compared to domes. Vertical dispersion of a ribbon correlates directly to the ribbon length. The Fountek NeoCD3.0 has comparable vertical dispersion to a one inch dome.

Long ribbons have reduced vertical dispersion, not short ones.

You might cruise the Statements thread for builder feedback on sound quality in both music and home theater applications. There is a dedicated center for all of the Statements speakers too.

HTH

Jim

[---k---]

Tim,

I've heard the Statements and CJD's Dayton RS 3-ways, but I believe you are talking about the TMWW by Dennis Murphy.

The Statements are excellent speakers. Many people love them. If you have the room, and can place them off the wall like they are intended, then by all means build them.

The Dayton TMWW design is also an excellent design. It is quite a bit less expensive design than the Statements. Many people have built this one and are very happy, but the Statements cost more for a reason.

I really love CJD's big 3-way towers, and had him design a smaller pair for me. I love my speakers. They bring a big smile to my face. I think they would make anyone happy.

I think it really comes down to budget and if you have and placement restrictions that would rule out the open back nature of the Statements, and maybe if you're a ribbon or dome type of tweeter guy.

[NateTTU]

I don't have much to say except build the Statements! I have no prior speaker builds and didn't want to get upgraditis so I went all out and built a full 5 channel statement setup and I'm loving the sound. You certainly can't go wrong with this design.

[cjd]

The differences between the Statements and the Khanspires are likely going to be on the subtle end of things I suspect. That room would also support the larger 3-ways I did quite well, perhaps best of all. I think both the Khans and Statements are anticipating slightly more "sane" room placement restrictions (closer to rear wall, etc.)

The TMWW 3-ways are a definite step down, though excellent.

[timdog]

Thanks for the replies fellas, and sorry for the delay in responding. I had some computer issues. I am glad about the ribbons being an acceptable use for my plans. I will probably go ahead an order the stuff I need for a 5 piece setup, while the wife is willing. CJD, I did look at those Khans as well, but I believe it was another price jump up in difference and that is why I started looking elewhere...and those statements are beautiful...

Thanks again all, I am sure I will have some questions along the way.

Tim

[cjd]

Statements are about the same I thought? Don't remember. Khans are ~$600/pr. Unless you're not talking the full Statements, but one of the smaller variants?

C

[Hdale85]

Yeah I was going to say I actually thought the Khanspires were a bit cheaper.

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655 check this thread for general info on all the designs currently available here.

[Jim Holtz]

The problem is, RS drivers all went up along with inductor costs so the all RS designs were hit much harder than the Statement series. Fountek and Tangband prices have held steady. I need to do new BOM's for the Statements series to reflect today's prices.

I will say this about comparisons, W4-1337SA's and open back transmission line mids work magic on the sound stage. :T

Jim

[Brian Bunge]

Jim,

Which of the RS drivers have gone up in price? They all look pretty consistent to me, except for maybe the RS270's.

[Coconutout]

another vote for statements... from a statement owner of course

[Jim Holtz]

Jim,

Which of the RS drivers have gone up in price? They all look pretty consistent to me, except for maybe the RS270's.

Hi Brian,

All of the "most used" sizes have gone up:

RS225's were $42 now $48
RS180's were $32 now $35
RS150's were $28 now $32
RS52's were $33 now $41
RS28a (shielded) were $47 now $56

This all happened about 3 months ago I think and I'm working from memory so some of the prices may be off a buck or two. I'm not sure what that all works out to be percentage wise and it's certainly not a show stopper considering the quality of the drivers, but it does add up. Particularly when you factor in the increased cost of crossover parts.

I've also noticed that PE has slipped back into the expensive shipping mode. Madisound has always had a leg up in that regard. They don't try to increase the profit margin by boosting the shipping a few bucks. Again, not a show stopper and I like doing business with PE but it always annoys me.

Jim

[Brian Bunge]

Jim,

OK, I see what you're saying. I haven't looked at the regular retail pricing in some time since I don't pay those prices. I think my pricing has stayed the same or is still very close to what it's been. I'd never notice a $2-$4 difference.

I'm with you on the shipping costs though. I'm seriously considering placing my next crossover parts order with Madisound. I've got several 3 way designs in the works right now.

[---k---]

I wouldn't base the decision on the Khans versus the Statements on price. They are so close, it shouldn't matter. You're time investment is going to be 100x as much as you spend.

That said, you should base you decision on if you're a dome or a ribbon guy. An open back versus a closed back type of person. They are very different speakers, both equally great.

It sounds like you have selected the Statements. You're going to be happy. Just continue adding o this thread with any build questions and some photos. We love to share in the journey.

[tabasc07]

Either way you'll be happy with one of those designs. It's really a toss-up like what Ryan said. The RS 3way, Khans, or Statements are all quality speakers according to everyone that built one or the other.

On a side note, I have actually been planning on building the Statements and wrote the updated BOM in my notebook. It would be $766.82 for everything (assuming the tweeter is still $89). You'd also have to factor in shipping and cost for wood, glue, etc.

[Brian Walter]

As a builder and owner of the RS-3-ways, I'd like to chime in here. If you've got the room and since they will be in your living room, if your other half is in agreement, I'd say build the Statements. If you think they are a little too big, I'd then say build the sealed version of the statements or the Khans, and if they are still too big, build the Mini-Statements. While I really like my RS-3-ways, they really are a step down from either the Kans or the Statements. Of course this is just my opinion, as everyone has slightly different tastes.

I will say that I really like the open backed mids on the Statement line of speakers, to me they seem to put a little extra life back into the music that often times seems to be missing form other speakers.

Brian Walter

[Mudjock]

I think most of the bases have already been covered, but I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway. I have heard the Khans and the Statements and have worked extensively with the RS150 used in the Khans. Both the Statements and the Khans are very well executed designs that do nothing really wrong and that you would have to spend crazy $ to significantly improve upon. To me, the Dayton Reference drivers in the Khan (RS150 and RS28) do a great job of resolving detail and "textures" in the music. The ribbon tweeter and Tang Band titanium mid have more extension at the frequency extremes and a slightly smoother frequency response overall, but somewhat higher distortion levels. This, coupled with the open back mids, gives a balanced, grain-free presentation that sounds particularly good on vocals and will be a little more forgiving of marginal source material.

So I guess, the main choice comes down to your goals. The Khans will be a little better at picking out subtle details in the music ("wow, I never heard that background instrument before!"), while the Statements will give a little more of that "wow, the artist is right in my living room!" sensation.

[cjd]

Excellent description of the differences I would anticipate, and no surprise given how each of us focuses when we design.

C

[Jed]

As a builder and owner of the RS-3-ways, I'd like to chime in here. If you've got the room and since they will be in your living room, if your other half is in agreement, I'd say build the Statements. If you think they are a little too big, I'd then say build the sealed version of the statements or the Khans, and if they are still too big, build the Mini-Statements. While I really like my RS-3-ways, they really are a step down from either the Kans or the Statements. Of course this is just my opinion, as everyone has slightly different tastes.

I will say that I really like the open backed mids on the Statement line of speakers, to me they seem to put a little extra life back into the music that often times seems to be missing form other speakers.

Brian Walter

Which RS 3-way crossover did you use? Remember that is the soul of the speaker so I'd bet there are not so subtle differences between , DM, Curt's, CJDs, or ??? crossover version.

So CJD's RS 3-ways and the Khanspires are probably pretty similar in sonic signature, with the Khanspires having slightly lower distortion in the midrange because of the dual mids etc.

[cjd]

Uh, My 3-ways are the BIG ones, with the RS180 as mid. Two of them, in fact. I only listed a center channel option for the smaller 3-ways that Dennis, Curt, etc. contributed most of the options for.

But yes, voicing on mine should be fairly similar across the board.

[Jed]

Ah, details, details. My point remains the same, just I thought you had a version of the smaller 3-ways that's all.

[Brian Bunge]

Yeah, I would expect the big 3-ways to have lower distortion than the Khans. I really should come up with a name for these suckers.

[cjd]

Hey, I thought you disowned yours! :P

C

[Brian Bunge]

They're still here. I'm still trying to talk Zak into buying them. It's basically down to if we can figure a way to get them up to him without paying shipping, which I've been quoted roughly $500 for. That's been the deal breaker so far.

[Jed]

Which crossover version do your speakers have?

[Hdale85]

Brian's is the big 3 ways the MTMWW's I think there was only one variant to that crossover and it was rather expensive

[Brian Bunge]

Doug is correct. My crossover version is the only version!