Good test material?

[servicetech]

What CD's do you guys like to use for testing speaker? I'm talking about music CD's, not "test CDs". Anybody else listen to 70's/80's rock? If so which CD's do you like?

[cug]

See here (at the bottom of the article):

http://www.event-s.net/wa/Web/blogEntry?pageId=2&entryId=20202

[littlesaint]

See here (at the bottom of the article):

http://www.event-s.net/wa/Web/blogEn...&entryId=20202

That's a pretty good list. I would say Brothers in Arms on CD (or better SACD) and Hell Freezes Over on DVD are two of my references. The DVD has a very good PCM track and the DTS isn't bad either, particularly the Seven Bridges Road bonus track. Very good use of multichannel mixing there.

[cug]

That's a pretty good list. I would say Brothers in Arms on CD (or better SACD) and Hell Freezes Over on DVD are two of my references. The DVD has a very good PCM track and the DTS isn't bad either, particularly the Seven Bridges Road bonus track. Very good use of multichannel mixing there.

I actually don't like the Dire Straits SACD as it has some very nasty high-pitched noises in some songs. Comes up with every really good speaker I've heard, so it's not a problem of the chain I have here. The CD is better. The volume is lower, but the quality better.

I've added the stuff I used recently: Mozart, Norah Jones, and Pink Floyd

[Alaric]

I actually don't like the Dire Straits SACD as it has some very nasty high-pitched noises in some songs. Comes up with every really good speaker I've heard, so it's not a problem of the chain I have here. The CD is better. The volume is lower, but the quality better.

I've added the stuff I used recently: Mozart, Norah Jones, and Pink Floyd

I agree . Even the Warner remaster of the Bros. In Arms CD has some edgy moments . I've done some cable swapping on a couple completely different systems , however , and found that CD is not bad if it's not too bright.

[joecarrow]

There's an interesting one that I picked up in the used CD bin, Fugu 1 by Fugu- a one-man-band from France who's collaborated with Stereolab. It's not exactly a groundbreaking record or the last word in quality, but it has a big fun mix of acoustic instruments and natural sounds. It takes a fairly nice set of speakers to really get the cellos and drums and everything to come out well, and it also takes a fairly good setup to really expose the shortcomings of the mixing, recording, and sampling.

I guess that when I get to a better place in the audio spectrum I'll probably abandon this one.

[peter_m]

Interesting that "Brothers in Arms" is STILL being used as a reference for sounds quality and dynamic range. Wow, I just looked it up, it was released in 1985... pre-CD era!! It blows my mind.

[cug]

Interesting that "Brothers in Arms" is STILL being used as a reference for sounds quality and dynamic range. Wow, I just looked it up, it was released in 1985... pre-CD era!! It blows my mind.

Hmmm. I bought my CD (yes, the one I'm using up to today) in 1986. From Wikipedia:

"The first Compact Disc for commercial release rolled off the assembly line on August 17, 1982, at a Philips factory in Langenhagen, near Hanover, Germany. The first title released was ABBA's The Visitors (1981)."

And:

"CDs and Sony's CD player CDP-101 reached the market on October 1, 1982 in Japan, and early the following year in the United States and other markets."

And the interesting part:

"The first artist to sell a million copies on CD was Dire Straits, with their 1985 album Brothers in Arms."

As I said, I got mine in 1986, two years later (1988, if I recall correctly) the Sony CDP-222 ESD Player, which served me perfectly well (way better than the Rotel RCD-1072 feature-wise - sound wise I can't compare) until last year. Wow. 19 years, through parties, home use, company use, lots of times when I started as a DJ. I doubt the Rotel will survive half that long ...

[littlesaint]

I actually don't like the Dire Straits SACD as it has some very nasty high-pitched noises in some songs. ...

Which mix?

2Ch, Multichannel, or High-rez CD.

I only really listen to the 2Ch SACD mix and have never really noticed. Maybe my Klipsch RF-3s don't bring it out (which would be ironic) or my ears can't hear it. I hope you didn't just ruin it for me.

[Blazin]

Try Dream Theatre if you like 80s rock lol

Dream Theatre - 20th Anniversary Live Cd.. should blow you outta the room.

[Jim Holtz]

Which mix?

2Ch, Multichannel, or High-rez CD.

I only really listen to the 2Ch SACD mix and have never really noticed. Maybe my Klipsch RF-3s don't bring it out (which would be ironic) or my ears can't hear it. I hope you didn't just ruin it for me.

Hi littlesaint,

I don't want to ruin anything for you but you really should try to listen to some of the designs listed in the Mission Accomplished section. I think you'll find most of them, including the "entry level", shame commercial speakers until you get into really big bucks high end speakers, in just about every area of comparison.

There are a number of speakers that are highly regarded in some of the home theater forums that will not come close to the sound quality available with these DIY designs.

Build a pair of Modula M/T's to test the waters. I think they'd be a real eye opener and they would be considered a budget speaker.

Best regards,

Jim

[dawg1161]

Listen to Jim............................

[littlesaint]

Hi littlesaint,

I don't want to ruin anything for you but you really should try to listen to some of the designs listed in the Mission Accomplished section. I think you'll find most of them, including the "entry level", shame commercial speakers until you get into really big bucks high end speakers, in just about every area of comparison.

There are a number of speakers that are highly regarded in some of the home theater forums that will not come close to the sound quality available with these DIY designs.

Build a pair of Modula M/T's to test the waters. I think they'd be a real eye opener and they would be considered a budget speaker.

Best regards,

Jim

I'm working on something myself right now. I just need to find the time to do it. I'm actually borrowing from your Statements a bit for my design. I'll be using the BG Neo3 and TB-1337 in a dipole arrangement and the RS180 (surrounds/center) and RS225 (mains) ported. Everything appears to model pretty good, I just need to start doing some real measurements on a finished baffle.

[Jim Holtz]

I'm working on something myself right now. I just need to find the time to do it. I'm actually borrowing from your Statements a bit for my design. I'll be using the BG Neo3 and TB-1337 in a dipole arrangement and the RS180 (surrounds/center) and RS225 (mains) ported. Everything appears to model pretty good, I just need to start doing some real measurements on a finished baffle.

Excellent! I know what that combo sounds like with a ribbon and I suspect it will sound excellent with the Neo3 as well. I predict that you'll never look back after listening to the new speakers. The level of detail the W4-1337SA can produce is phenominal.

I'm looking forward to hearing your comments and seeing pictures as the build progresses.

Best of luck!


Jim

[cug]

Which mix?

2Ch, Multichannel, or High-rez CD.

I only really listen to the 2Ch SACD mix and have never really noticed. Maybe my Klipsch RF-3s don't bring it out (which would be ironic) or my ears can't hear it. I hope you didn't just ruin it for me.

The 20th anniversary edition:

http://tinyurl.com/yo5abk

I never heard it with my old Onkyo speakers. But the 804S made it clear, that there is something that doesn't belong there.

[littlesaint]

The 20th anniversary edition:

http://tinyurl.com/yo5abk

I never heard it with my old Onkyo speakers. But the 804S made it clear, that there is something that doesn't belong there.

That's the one I have, but there are three different mixes on that disc: Multichannel SACD, 2Ch SACD, and 2Ch CD. I was wondering if all three exhibit the same thing. Is this actual noise in the recording, or just a harshness to the overall sound?

[cug]

I think it is noise in the recording. Very high pitched, very unpleasant sound. In two or three songs or so - I can't really remember which songs because I only listen to the CD since I got the 804S. Would have to check.

And I don't know, what track the RCD-1072 would play. Probably the 2ch SACD.

[littlesaint]

Interesting.

I remember reading recently about some highly regarded recordings/re-masters that have a high frequency (almost inaudible) noise present. The prevailing theory was an engineer used a CRT monitor during recording and/or mixing and the flyback frequency found its way into the recording.

[Jim Holtz]

I think it is noise in the recording. Very high pitched, very unpleasant sound. In two or three songs or so - I can't really remember which songs because I only listen to the CD since I got the 804S. Would have to check.

And I don't know, what track the RCD-1072 would play. Probably the 2ch SACD.

I don't think the RCD-1072 is a SACD player so it would play the standard CD layer. I'm curious which songs exhibit the high pitched sound. I have the Greatest Hits album and haven't heard an high pitched sound from the songs. I do admit that I'm not that big of Dire Straits fan but the recordings on my disk are very good. Not the best in my collection but very good.

It would be interesting to swap speakers with ones that are known to have a really good top end and see if it's something from your speakers rather than the recording. Do you notice any brightness on other recordings? I've not heard the 804S so I'm not inferring that they don't sound good just wondering if it's speaker related, electronics or recording.

Jim

[Jim85IROC]

For me it's Eagles: Hell Freezes Over, Eagles: Hotel California DVD-A, and Tom Petty: Mary Jane's Last Dance.

Mainly, it's because I'm so brutally familiar with those albums. I've listened to Hotel Califorina thousands of times. What I generally listen for with these 3 cds is imaging and soundstage. How well placed are the instruments on the soundstage, and how clearly can I focus in and listen to one particular guitar. With Hotel California, there are 4 guitars playing simultaneously. I've found that the better the design, the easier it is for me to zero in on any one of those 4 guitars and listen to that one exclusively.

Of course I look for other aspects specific to each song/album. With the CD version of Hotel California, there's one particular guitar note that can be VERY harsh on most poor designs that goes by unnoticed on better designs. On the DVD-A remaster, that harshness is gone. With the HFO version of Hotel California, the bass beat early in the song can be used to determine bass clarity. The "boom boom" bass line is actually 2 different sounds, with the second one having a bit of a higher frequency fade. I'm surprised at how many "good" speakers make the two sound the same. The songs that Glen Frey sings on HFO can have a harsh siblant sound on some speakers. Many speakers make Henley's voice on HFO sound unnatural.

[cug]

I don't think the RCD-1072 is a SACD player so it would play the standard CD layer. I'm curious which songs exhibit the high pitched sound. I have the Greatest Hits album and haven't heard an high pitched sound from the songs. I do admit that I'm not that big of Dire Straits fan but the recordings on my disk are very good. Not the best in my collection but very good.

As far as I remember, that is one of my CDs where that "HDCD" LED will go on. But I'm really not sure, haven't used that CD in quite some time.

I'll try to get some time tonight to name the tracks and even the times when the noise starts.

It would be interesting to swap speakers with ones that are known to have a really good top end and see if it's something from your speakers rather than the recording. Do you notice any brightness on other recordings? I've not heard the 804S so I'm not inferring that they don't sound good just wondering if it's speaker related, electronics or recording.

The 804S is a very revealing speaker, so it shows off bad recordings quite fast. Escpecially in the higher frequencies. It is also not as smooth as the diamond tweeters, so if there is something bad, it shows it really bad.

I have heard it with other speakers too (Totem Forest, Model 1), but not as bad. The other 800 series speakers show it too, the diamonds a little bit less harsh but still ear-hurting for me.

[cjd]

Rock is pretty generally terrible as test material. Even "wide dynamic range" is often not so much. And the more recent the mastering, the more likely this is the case.

Tonal balance: Hillary Hahn, unaccompanied violin, Bach Sonatas and Partitas. This is a brutal test if the listener has experience with the instrument and pieces (which I do - extensively). Also good for low level detail analysis.

Dynamics: Mahler's 8th symphony, Holst's The Planets. Also good for resolution ability, grunge, control, and low level detail analysis.

Imaging/staging: Live at the Pawn Shop. Jazz. Intimate setting with lots of background detail, if your system can resolve it. Pinpoint placement, a great test of any spacial placement abilities of a two-channel rig.

Other pieces are just for fun. Pushing the low end or the high end of a speaker, etc.

C

[Hdale85]

Telarc Sampler Vol4 - This is a lot of orchestra stuff.
Nitin Sawhney - Beyond Skin is nice for bass and female vocals.

[Martyn]

Rock is pretty generally terrible as test material.
C

I agree, Chris. Lately I've been using Alison Krauss' "Lucky One" to compare a couple of pairs of 2-ways I built over Christmas. I also use Patricia Barber, Loreena McKinnet, some Diana Krall (interesting how it's mostly female vocals), Bach's cello suites, Vivaldi's "Winter". I like Katie Melua, but just keep wishing her recordings were up to Alison Krauss' standard.

Martyn