3-way driver selection

[Rolex]

I was hoping to get a little help with driver selection. I'e built 4 pairs of speakers in the past. However, each time, didn't really have a say in driver selection. I either bought a kit, or had a professional provide driver selections.

I'd like to build a 3-way with a curved cabinet. It will be a floor standing speaker, probably around 42 inches tall.

The drivers I am thinking of are the Peerless HDS tweeter, the Peerless 831882 exclusive 5 3/4" driver, and the Scan Speak 8545 7" paper cone for the bottom end.

I'm trying to avoid going all the way to the dedicated scan speak midrange and a scan tweeter like the 6600.

I will be using Meniscus Audio to measure the drivers in the cabinet and then design a crossver for me. I'd appreciate any comments on the above selection of drivers.

[TacoD]

what about Seas Prestige woofers?

[Rolex]

are you thinking like the L18 or L22?

[Jonasz]

What about a RS225, RS52 and a 3/4" tweeter, for example the Seas H1283? Should result in a low distortion system.

[augerpro]

Nice mid and tweeter. The 810921 takes some tweaking but the effort is worth it. I think you may be happier with a larger woofer though, maybe L22 or RS225 or maybe the 8" Usher woofer.

[Rolex]

auerpro, do you think it is worth it to step up to the 8" scan?

Jonasz, Meniscus isn't real crazy about doing designs with drivers they don't sell. They do carry scan, Seas, Peerless, eton, among others. I'd like to stick with what they carry since they will be doing the crossover design.

[cjd]

I'd go with the 8" scan and a 5" or 5.5" scan.

Or the Peerless HDS across the board.

Meniscus seems to leave stuff on the table as far as their designs go, from the couple I've heard. Not bad by any means but not getting the most out of components.

C

[Jed]

If you have the cash go for dual 8" aluminum cone scanspeaks for the bass, a Seas W15CY for the mid, and a DXT Seas tweeter. Oh wait, that's what I'm thinking of doing. Better yet, make the midrange open backed while you're at it.

Forget Meniscus and work with me or anyone else on this board that has design experience. We can get things done to suite your taste and you can be sure we'll spend more time on the crossover. Meniscus has to make $$$ and time = money. Less time = more $$$.

Unless you DIY. My time designing crossover networks = F U N.

Jed

[Jed]

what about Seas Prestige woofers?

Taco, which ones do you recommend? I like the CA18RNX for bass, but the new ER18RNX is probably just as good, if not better because of the better midrange performance.

I haven't used the paper coned 8" woofers, just heard the L22RNX4 and it was very good. Tight and clean.

[Martijn_H]

Are you familiar with the Visaton AL130? I've seen distortionmeasurements (hd3 <0,1% @90dB) and it beats the scanspeak M15 and almost everything else..

The AL200 is also very good as a 8" bassdriver.

The peerless HDS tweeter is very nice!

[cjd]

Really. You asked what all our pet projects are, WHY?!

[Jed]

Are you familiar with the Visaton AL130? I've seen distortionmeasurements (hd3 <0,1% @90dB) and it beats the scanspeak M15 and almost everything else..

The AL200 is also very good as a 8" bassdriver.

The peerless HDS tweeter is very nice!

You ever notice that KT tests seem a bit optimistic?

For example, I've tested several drivers also tested by KT and there are some discrepancies, yet Zaph and my distortion measurements almost always align. One example is the Visaton Ti100. Zaph's measurement show a rise in 3rd order distortion starting around 1.5k, and there is NO rise in distortion like that in the tests I've seen by KT magazine.

Not saying the Visaton AL130M isn't all it's cracked up to be, but given what I just mentioned I wonder if it is THAT good.

[chrismercurio]

AL200's

I have a pair laying around in my project box if anyone wants to buy or test them. Note that one may test them without purchase.

C

[Martijn_H]

You ever notice that KT tests seem a bit optimistic?

For example, I've tested several drivers also tested by KT and there are some discrepancies, yet Zaph and my distortion measurements almost always align. One example is the Visaton Ti100. Zaph's measurement show a rise in 3rd order distortion starting around 1.5k, and there is NO rise in distortion like that in the tests I've seen by KT magazine.

Not saying the Visaton AL130M isn't all it's cracked up to be, but given what I just mentioned I wonder if it is THAT good.

I have a speaker with Excell-Accuston C89 and C12. The visaton with hds tweeter or neo3pdr is equal performing. I think that after comparing by ear.

I think it is safe to compare KT testresults mutual. They have a good testingsystem. But there is allways a change that results are not 100%

Why don't you test the visaton AL130? :twisted: (the M version is a tiny bith worse) So we get to know the truth!

[Rolex]

Thanks for the responses everyone. If I understand what most of you are saying, the 6.5" scan is not the ideal choice for the bottom end. I'm wondering if maybe a pair of 8" would be better. Like the L22 from Seas or something similar. Or a pair of 8" peerless maybe? I had the 830883 from peerless as a 2 1/2 way and it was real shy on bass. That's why I'm a little hesitant to try something like the 830884 as the bass driver (although maybe using 1 pair of those per side would yield good results)

I loved the midrange of the peerless system I had before, which is why I'm looking at the 5 1/2" as the midrange. I would like the looks of a system that had matching drivers though. And if I'm being honest, looks are important to me. Not as much as sound quality, however.

[Jim Holtz]

Here's my $.02 worth....

You'll be very, very hard pressed to beat the bass sound quality of the RS225's and nothing even near them in the price range. I've used Seas L series in the past and prefer the RS225. The Scan 8" drivers are really excellent and will give you the sound quality you're looking for but at a price. I'm not convinced they're better than the RS225's as bass drivers but everybody can't use the RS225's. That wouldn't be any fun.

There are pretty strong supporters of the 8" aluminum Visatons too. I've not heard them so I can't offer an opinion. I would really like to see test results of the AL130. Somebody want to send a pair to Jed, Augiepro or Zaph? It was the Ti100's that inspired me to develop the Statements project which ultimately evolved into the TB W4-1337SA and I'm still having a love affair with them for open back midrange sound quality.

As always, YMMV....

Jim

[ttan98]

If price is not a factor use scanspeak 8531, instead of 8545 I read somewhere, here it is:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Amish_8545_9500.htm

8531's bass is better than 8545.

[Rolex]

I've always thought of the 8531 best suited as a midrange/bass driver in a two way system. I've never thought of it as a dedicated bass driver.

I'm not exactly loaded, but I'm willing to spend the money on scan speak drivers if it is worth it. I won't be willing to buy 4 of them, but one per side, I would be interested in.

So, I guess the question of the day is this: money aside, are the scan speak drivers better than somethinkg like the peerless exclusive 8" or the Dayton RS 225's?

[Jim Holtz]

I've always thought of the 8531 best suited as a midrange/bass driver in a two way system. I've never thought of it as a dedicated bass driver.

I'm not exactly loaded, but I'm willing to spend the money on scan speak drivers if it is worth it. I won't be willing to buy 4 of them, but one per side, I would be interested in.

So, I guess the question of the day is this: money aside, are the scan speak drivers better than somethinkg like the peerless exclusive 8" or the Dayton RS 225's?

I heard the 8" Scans in a design that took 1st place at the Iowa DIY last fall. The Statements and Khanspires were also entered in the competition and both use RS225's. The Scan's were being used in a mid dome design and a TL cabinet so it wasn't exactly apples to apples. I think the Scan's were the right driver for that application and probably one of the best choices. However, for a pure bass driver, I still think the RS225's is equal to the best out there.

I've not heard the Exclusives. The feedback I've read is that they were an excellent driver but were not the ultimate in detail which one would expect since they're a paper cone. I'm a detail freak so I love metal cone drivers. YMMV....

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong with either one. The Scans are very sweet but also very expensive.

HTH

Jim

[Rolex]

Jim,
Thanks for the response. I think the issue of the scans being better because they cost more money is just something I would like to accept. But, I'm not a designer, and I'll take your word for it.

If what you say is really true, I'm inclined to build your statements instead. I've been thinking about them for a while, but would love to incorporate a curved cabinet.

Which is possible, but I'm concerned with the "dipole" portion of the midrange drivers with a curved cabinet.

Thanks

[Jim Holtz]

Jim,
Thanks for the response. I think the issue of the scans being better because they cost more money is just something I would like to accept. But, I'm not a designer, and I'll take your word for it.

If what you say is really true, I'm inclined to build your statements instead. I've been thinking about them for a while, but would love to incorporate a curved cabinet.

Which is possible, but I'm concerned with the "dipole" portion of the midrange drivers with a curved cabinet.

Thanks

Hi Rolex,

If you want to build the Statements with a curved side cabinet, check out Todd's (tpremo55) excellent pictorial of how he handled the curved sides and the open back on the mids. http://picasaweb.google.com/tpremo55...ents_Web_Album Shoot Todd an email. I suspect he'd be eager to answer any questions you may have. He's a good guy.

BTW, I'm still infatuated with the Statements. I never fail to go "wow" about something every time I do any serious listening.

Jim