EP2500 Issues

[JohnL]

Hey guys, just a quick question for anyone who has some experience with the Behringer EP2500. I got mine in from DJDeals.com the other day. When I hook it up in bridge mode (switch 1, 6, & 7 on) and hook my sub up to it (on the two center connectors) , the red clip light comes on for channel 1. I tried another sub and it does the same thing. Am I missing something really simple or did I get a bum amp? If I run it in 2 channel mode to the same sub it has no problems (other than lacking about a thousand watts). Thanks in advance guys.

John

[---k---]

You aren't wiring up a 2ohm load are you?

What driver are you using and how do you have it wired?

[JohnL]

Nope, it's 4 ohms. It's a Tsuzureko. The other one I tried was a 15 I had in the house with dual 2 ohm coils wired in series.

[ThomasW]

One of the guys on the IB forum toasted his EP2500 by wiring it up wrong (bridged powering a less than 1 ohm load). Behringer sent him a replacement amp and it does exactly what you're describing. He decided to just run it in stereo...

[chasw98]

Here are some troubleshooting questions.

01) If you do NOT hook up the speakers or the inputs on the amp, does the clip light come on in bridged mode?

02) If you hook up only the input to the amp and NO speakers to the back, does the clip light come on in bridged mode?

03) If you run a signal through the input to the amp without the speakers connected in bridged mode, does the clip lamp come on or can you get it to flash by using the level control?

If the answer to 1 is Yes, then you have the amp set up wrong.
If the answer to 1 is no and to 2 is yes, then the possibility of ground loops or high frequency oscillation exists.
If the answer to 1 is no, and 2 is no, and 3 is yes, then you might have a problem with the source driving the amp.

And of course, you could have a defective amplifier, but hopefully these steps will help you to determine that.
Chuck

[Nichol1997]

Did you follow the manual and turn the volume all the way down on the second channel?

[JohnL]

He decided to just run it in stereo...

Great

Here are some troubleshooting questions.

01) If you do NOT hook up the speakers or the inputs on the amp, does the clip light come on in bridged mode?

02) If you hook up only the input to the amp and NO speakers to the back, does the clip light come on in bridged mode?

03) If you run a signal through the input to the amp without the speakers connected in bridged mode, does the clip lamp come on or can you get it to flash by using the level control?

If the answer to 1 is Yes, then you have the amp set up wrong.
If the answer to 1 is no and to 2 is yes, then the possibility of ground loops or high frequency oscillation exists.
If the answer to 1 is no, and 2 is no, and 3 is yes, then you might have a problem with the source driving the amp.

And of course, you could have a defective amplifier, but hopefully these steps will help you to determine that.
Chuck

Well, 1 is no, 2 is no, 3 is... interesting. By feeding it a signal with no speakers hooked up it does not light the clip light, but it does light the signal lights on both channels, and not in unison. It looks like the gain is a bit higher on the Channel 2 light. BTW, the input is coming from sub-out on my receiver with an RCA to 1/4" adapter. Hardly hi-fi, but I thought it should work.

Did you follow the manual and turn the volume all the way down on the second channel?

Yup, thanks though.

[chasw98]

Great


Well, 1 is no, 2 is no, 3 is... interesting. By feeding it a signal with no speakers hooked up it does not light the clip light, but it does light the signal lights on both channels, and not in unison. It looks like the gain is a bit higher on the Channel 2 light. BTW, the input is coming from sub-out on my receiver with an RCA to 1/4" adapter. Hardly hi-fi, but I thought it should work.

Ok, this is a start. I will assume that the channel 2 level control is turned completely counterclockwise as in off. Is there any way you can feed the amplifier a signal from an fm tuner with muting off and full range? The reason I ask is that the hiss you hear from a tuner when not on a station is fairly broadband noise that is equal energy at all frequencies and will do in a pinch for a signal generator. By sending the signal from sub out you are really not sure what is coming from the receiver in terms of signal. This way with the tuner used as a source and no speaker connected you should be able to get a constant signal light and possibly a clip light to flash or come on constantly.

With the fm noise you could also hook up a speaker and turn the level control up slowly to see if you hear the sound from the speaker and see whether the clip light lights up abnormally. If it does not light up abnormally, then you can hook up the speaker or sub that has given you the problem and see if the symptom reappears. If the symptom reappears then it is not the amp and it is something with the speaker you just attached to the amp.

[joetama]

Hearing the brand of the amplifier it sounds like a bum amplifier.

I've seen the EP2500 and other Behringer amps be defective rather often...

I will get hate for saying that too...

[ThomasW]

Here and on the IB forum we been recommending the EP amps since they were introduced. To date there have been ~3 problematic units (one was killed by operator failure). IMO that's a pretty good reliability record.

[joetama]

Here and on the IB forum we been recommending the EP amps since they were introduced. To date there have been ~3 problematic units (one was killed by operator failure). IMO that's a pretty good reliability record.

IIRC 9 out of 50 or so Behering products with amplifiers in them, including the EP 2500, have either been DOA or had a problem very soon after the installation.

18% Failure rate is not good IMO. I don't understand it when I see people sucessfully using Behringer Products as often as they do. For the price they are decent pieces of equipment, but they are not top notch from my experence.

We replaced a good majority of the Behringer amplifier with QSC, Crest, and Lab.Gruppen and haven't had a single problem. (Knock on wood) So, I don't know what to say, Behringer must not like us. :roll:

By no means am I saying I hate Behringer, because I have gotten myself into an arguing match and that is not my intent. Just from my experience, they are so so from the reliability and sonic stand point...

[chasw98]

IIRC 9 out of 50 or so Behering products with amplifiers in them, including the EP 2500, have either been DOA or had a problem very soon after the installation.

18% Failure rate is not good IMO. I don't understand it when I see people sucessfully using Behringer Products as often as they do. For the price they are decent pieces of equipment, but they are not top notch from my experence.

We replaced a good majority of the Behringer amplifier with QSC, Crest, and Lab.Gruppen and haven't had a single problem. (Knock on wood) So, I don't know what to say, Behringer must not like us. :roll:

By no means am I saying I hate Behringer, because I have gotten myself into an arguing match and that is not my intent. Just from my experience, they are so so from the reliability and sonic stand point...

Don't really want this to go on, but..... If the amps you 'remember' were being used in a pro installation with the associated abuse they take in that regard, it might be true. In this situation the amplifier is sitting in the users air conditioned, environmentally controlled living room being babied. That is the way most users here, at AVS, or the Cult are using them and there have been very few failures at all.

I have a measuring amplifiers thread going on another forum. The last amp I measured was a QSC PLX3402. If you were to look at the construction and layout of that vs. an EP2500, your first reaction might be, "What a POS!", yet, the QSC is a better amp, not better constructed though. Behringer gained a bad rep in the beginning. They have since brought up their QC but serious pro installers or users avoid them like the plague. They are the modern Tapco. To pro guys they are toys, but for home use they are just fine and chances are if it works out of the box at home, it will be fine for many years to come. Just my $.02.

CHuck

[joetama]

Don't really want this to go on, but..... If the amps you 'remember' were being used in a pro installation with the associated abuse they take in that regard, it might be true. In this situation the amplifier is sitting in the users air conditioned, environmentally controlled living room being babied. That is the way most users here, at AVS, or the Cult are using them and there have been very few failures at all.

I have a measuring amplifiers thread going on another forum. The last amp I measured was a QSC PLX3402. If you were to look at the construction and layout of that vs. an EP2500, your first reaction might be, "What a POS!", yet, the QSC is a better amp, not better constructed though. Behringer gained a bad rep in the beginning. They have since brought up their QC but serious pro installers or users avoid them like the plague. They are the modern Tapco. To pro guys they are toys, but for home use they are just fine and chances are if it works out of the box at home, it will be fine for many years to come. Just my $.02.

CHuck

Hi Chuch,

A good majority of the places that we install are in churches, sports arenas, meeting halls, hospitals, and various other venues so they aren't seeing the rough and tough road use that a Touring PA amplifier would see.

Anyway, I don't mean to cause a ruckus and we install a lot of Behringer Gear just because it is so reasonably priced. But, I just am never surprised when I see something go wrong with one, that is all I am saying.

But, you are right about amplifier being babied in a home envorment vs most pro-audio applications. Even the load requirements in a home audio situation are much different than a Pro-Audio situation.

I am just curious of what you thought was inadiquite in the construction of the PLX amplifier? I am rather curious about this because the PLX always seemed like a step up from the RMX Series which the EP2500 is based on.

-Aaron

[chasw98]

OK, last post on the amp before the OP gets neglected and goes away.

First, the QSC is a better amplifier in all respects versus the EP2500.
But, when you get the call on Sunday morning at 9:00 AM for the service when the faithful can't hear the word because the 25 amp ceramic fuse blew in the QSC and you have to remove 16 screws to get to the fuseholder to replace it, you will wish that QSC used a circuit breaker or external fuseholder like the EP2500!

Second, if you have ever had the pleasure of taking a PLX3402 apart the first thing that you will notice is that the sheet metal used to form the case around the insides is very, very thin. Now that can help save on weight and it is solid when all the screws are in, but it would bend easily when falling off a hand truck going up the stairs.

Third, the actual circuit boards used seemed a little less than mil spec. Somewhat cheap. But they work and work well.

And last but not least, I love the innovative use of 'fish paper' in building the wind tunnel for the flow of the fan (which I might add is held on with plastic clips).



Personally, this is all OK with me. The amplifier weighs 21 pounds and does an honest 3400 watts RMS into a 4 ohm load at rated THD. 21 pounds for 3400 watts!!!!! That is great!

[Jman]

Mine was fried as posted over at the COTIB. When my IB was wired erroneously for 1ohm, the ep2500 red clip light came on the first time I turned it on. So I turned it off then back on and then the red light didn't come on. So all was fine. Then I had some bass nuts over and we rocked the joint with >126db@LP. Funny thing was it survived the movies fine, but when we came back after a 15 minute snack break, the amp was fried.

Since then I found out the wiring was wrong since the coils weren't the impedance I was told when buying them. But the replacement unit refused to work when presented with a 4ohm load. I switched it on and off a dozen times and it never got rid of the red clip light. So I split the IB into 2 pairs of drivers and ran it 2ohm stereo without a problem.

The ep2500 is just a cheapo amp. It has lots of power for the money, just pray you get a good unit. Oh and the RMA for Behringer is total ass. They promised me 2 week complete turn-around and it took 6+ weeks. If this one ever dies I'll go with something way more substantial like the one for ~$600 over at diycable's site.

[pamikey]

Hi all,
I have used EP2500's (a rack of them) for over 2 years with our PA used for bands and live work.
I also have a couple of Crown amps. I have never had a problem with the EP's they seem to handle anything I throw at them, and if you take a look inside you can see the build quality and components are excellent, in my opinion as good as any amp I have owned. Like all amps you have to be careful with them in bridge mode. Some people don't seem to have a clue about impedance, and kill them. I have killed other amps, but not an EP2500 yet. Now where's that wood to touch!