Real wood cabinets??

[slimwhit33]

Been lurking here for quite awhile but just registered so that I can begin to have some dialouge about building some speakers. So first of all, hello everyone!

I have read a ton on this site about building a set of front speakers (decided on the Dayton III's or the Modula MT's, suggestions welcome!!) and a center speaker (Cynosure from Parts Express, the space for my center under my TV is 9" high x 28" W, so this looked perfect).

These speakers will be used almost exclusively for HT use. What I have not been able to find anywhere is the cost of the wood involved in making these speakers.

Does anyone build these using real wood, or does everyone use MDF and veneer covers?

The DIII's require (3)- 3/4" x 2' x 4' sheets of either wood or MDF. What is the difference in cost between using wood or the MDF/veneer combo?

By not being able to find any info through searches about the use of real wood I am beginning to think there is some reason for it..??

Thanks for the help.

[peter_m]

Real wood tends to resonate. That is why it is used in musical instruments. MDF+veneer is the way to help prevent resonance. Zaph used real wood for a small enclosure in his B3S project. Since it was relatively small it wasn't a problem. http://zaphaudio.com/ If you do decide to use solid wood, it would be a shame to invest all that work and money and end up with an enclosure that will affect negatively your sound. You might have some success treating the inside walls of your enclosure but it can get expensive. You can save your money and time by using MDF. Besides, veneering will also give you access to allot of exotic woods to choose from.

Peter

[slimwhit33]

Thanks for the quick response. Point taken, wood is not the way to go.

Do you have any opinions on the Daytons or the Modulas? I have read a lot of positive posts about both of the designs, but it seems like the Modulas may be an upgrade compared to the Daytons??

[peter_m]

Well the Dayton drivers in general are very highly regarded. I personally was restricting my choices to 2-way systems because they give you the most bang for the buck. So I was looking at the Modual MT, Zaph's L18 and his SR-71. I'm leaning toward the SR-71 but since I haven't been able to get that project started, I might change and choose differently change.

Hope this helps,

Peter

[Turn2]

Consider a subwoofer

If you're using these for HT you should make a sub part of your plan. As an alternative to the DIII's I would suggest a sealed version of Zaph's Bargain Aluminum MTM BAMTM. You'll find the design is basic and the crossover easy for a beginner to tackle. I have a pair and couldn't be happier. If you choose the Modula MT's instead I'm sure you'd be very happy with those as well. You may want to try a simpler crossover for a first project, unless you're more DIY-gifted than I am. :W

As far as wood vs. MDF, I believe consistency as also an issue with wood. Every piece of MDF on the shelf is pretty much the same. Oh, and the cost of two sheets of 3/4" thick 24" x 48" MDF is cheaper at my local Home Depot than one DIII woofer at PE by a fair amount.

Suggestion: Start with a subwoofer and go from there. Once you've finished that first project you'll be hooked and picking your second may seem more natural. :T

[---k---]

These are all good projects, so you can get an idea of the quality of these projects by looking at the price of the drivers being used.

There was a pair of Dayton III and ModulaMT this year at Iowa. While the Dayton III were good, sounded very musical and warm, they are an older, budget design. They just didn't accuracy, clarity, and detail of the Modula.

The Modula's are using very good metal cone drivers with aggressive crossovers to control them. With the current drivers on the market, you're not going to get much better clarity and detail for the price.

Zaph's budget MTM is good, and I haven't heard it, but I think the Modula will be slightly better because the drivers are better. You may be able to play the MTM louder due to the dual drivers, but that is why there is the NatP design.

[Turn2]

Zaph's budget MTM is good, and I haven't heard it, but I think the Modula will be slightly better because the drivers are better. You may be able to play the MTM louder due to the dual drivers, but that is why there is the NatP design.

My only dispute is that the BAMTM tweeter (Seas TBFC/G) doesn't sacrifice anything $ for $ to many other tweeters. And 2 DA175's vs. one RS-180, well, lets leave that alone.

The NatP's are a step up, but a beginner needs to make a simple vs. hard cost & complexity decision. It's nice to be able to do a "practice project" for a first effort to build confidence. That's why I mentioned a subwoofer. That was a great initiation for me.

[slimwhit33]

I actually already have a Sub, though not a DIY sub. I have a Klipsch Sub 10 that I got about a year ago. It is adequate for my uses at least until I build a dedicated HT room.

So the Nat P's are a more advanced design than either the Modula MT or the DIII's?

[PoorboyMike]

I've used real wood for baffles on a couple projects. The advantages for me are that you can round over (or even use fancier profiles) all your edges without the trouble of trying to veneer them. And no chance of the veneer peeling.

As far as sound, I'd be willing to bet that nobody could tell the difference between a solid wood baffle and a MDF baffle on the designs I've built. I'm sure there could be some exceptions on larger projects or subs, but IMO, not in these smaller stand mount designs.

[PoorboyMike]

So the Nat P's are a more advanced design than either the Modula MT or the DIII's?

The NatP and Modula MT use the same drivers and similar cross over designs. The NatP just uses an extra mid-woofer. The Dayton RS drivers used in both of these are better drivers than what's used in the Dayton 3's.

[Dryseals]

Been lurking here for quite awhile but just registered so that I can begin to have some dialouge about building some speakers. So first of all, hello everyone!

I have read a ton on this site about building a set of front speakers (decided on the Dayton III's or the Modula MT's, suggestions welcome!!) and a center speaker (Cynosure from Parts Express, the space for my center under my TV is 9" high x 28" W, so this looked perfect).

These speakers will be used almost exclusively for HT use. What I have not been able to find anywhere is the cost of the wood involved in making these speakers.

Does anyone build these using real wood, or does everyone use MDF and veneer covers?

The DIII's require (3)- 3/4" x 2' x 4' sheets of either wood or MDF. What is the difference in cost between using wood or the MDF/veneer combo?

By not being able to find any info through searches about the use of real wood I am beginning to think there is some reason for it..??

Thanks for the help.

The main reason most folks use MDF is because it is more stable than real wood. Changes in heat and humidity effect real wood more so than MDF. But with that said, I have a house full of early American antiques that are still very solid so things can be made well enough to take the changes.

Everything in the world has a resonant frequency, a box built from MDF being heavier tends to resonate lower than say a box built from red oak. I like to use a compo of MDF and real wood so it depends on the look I'm going for.

Real veneers can be a pain unless you know how to use them, there are tricks to the trade. Glue shift and the edges raising come to mind. The best glue by far is hide glue but it takes more equipment to work with.

[---k---]

You're American antiques likely use joinery techniques that accommodate volume change.

I use 13-ply birch ply at ~$65 a sheet.

[Dryseals]

You're American antiques likely use joinery techniques that accommodate volume change.

I use 13-ply birch ply at ~$65 a sheet.

The solid wood shifts due to temperature and humidity. We can control the temperature inside the house and with proper sealing, control the humidity in the wood.

The jointing techniques vary depending on the item, but for the most part, there is a give and take area. Still, a speaker enclosure made of solid wood can be accomplished, I've made several small ones but normally use MDF for the bigger ones. At lumber prices, why waste a good wood.

I have a full blown wood shop and have tried out several versions of jointing. There are jointing techniques with the right glues that are stronger than the wood itself. Take a look at the Grizzly C2125 for corners. Corner lock two peices of wood together with that bit and it's there to stay and it works great on MDF, and would do a number on your birch.