Looking for a few good Subs!

[Johnloudb]

I'm building a sub for my dad. He's thinking of getting a single $2400 Earthquake sub. Our room has bad room modes in one direction and needs two subs IMO. He likes detailed, fast bass.

I have these two sub enclosures, 4.5cf (127L) each. I'm modifying a stereo pair of old Nelson/Reed subs. They were dipole and have four 12" woofers each. I'm going to make them sealed. I'm just trying to decide on a the woofers. Two woofers per box. Any opinion on these drivers, for low distortion and clean bass??

Madisound touts it's own 12" driver as more musical. Could only use one per box though.

MAD1259

Both of these 12" would work, does 12" epic have lower distortion? Worth $1200 for 4?

Epic 12" (dual 4ohm version)

Dayton 12" HF 4ohm

I can do better than one Earthquake sub, right???

I also need a 2 great sub amps.

[ttan98]

Contents of post removed for violation of forums

[CupCak3]

breaking two rules in one post???? hmmmm naace

Johnloudb: What is your budget for the whole project? Any preference on seal, vented or PR? Extension requirements? SPL requirements?

[Hdale85]

Hi,

I am not related to ***********, I use some of the drivers they sell, and found them to be quite good, they are introducing a NEW subwoofer I am thinking of getting a pair, it is selling at about $145 each, a good price by any std. They have a few models one of them may suit you.

Please read rules before posting specifically this one

2) Historically it's been most problematic to host rational discussions about GR-Research products, all the threads end up getting locked.

Problem being it's tiresome dealing with rants of fanboys, people shilling the products, or the inability of the designer to entertain any form of critical discussion regarding the products. So this is another situation where there will be no discussion about products or a design using the products.

[ttan98]

Oops, sorry, looks like I have to read all the rules before posting, commonsense is not good enough.....

[---k---]

John,

I'm just repeating Thomas's recommendation's here. But the Shiva-X and Tempest-X 15" at DIYcable.com are the current value leaders. The have an XBL2 motor, so should be real good on the sound quality front. Big xmax and displacement. How can you go wrong?

I think a pair of either of these in a sealed box with a nice amp will be good. Shoot, 4 would be even better! When you order them, ask Kevin about his "special" pricing on the Face amps.

Note that Thomas recently ordered a pair of Face amps, and CJD ordered a 4-pack of the Tempest-X drivers with a Face amp. If they're all doing it, you'll be in good company.

[ThomasW]

The MAD1259 is a dinosaur. I can't understand why it's still being built.

The Epic 12" is a nice driver, but it's really designed for high output, high 'bling' car audio applications

For the minimal cost difference I think the Shiva-X is a better choice than the PE RS-315.

Kevin's driver/amp bundles are a very good deal. The Face amps are significant step up from those most people use. The fan are a bit on the loudish side though..

[Rick Craig]

I'm building a sub for my dad. He's thinking of getting a single $2400 Earthquake sub. Our room has bad room modes in one direction and needs two subs IMO. He likes detailed, fast bass.

I have these two sub enclosures, 4.5cf (127L) each. I'm modifying a stereo pair of old Nelson/Reed subs. They were dipole and have four 12" woofers each. I'm going to make them sealed. I'm just trying to decide on a the woofers. Two woofers per box. Any opinion on these drivers, for low distortion and clean bass??

Madisound touts it's own 12" driver as more musical. Could only use one per box though.

MAD1259

Both of these 12" would work, does 12" epic have lower distortion? Worth $1200 for 4?

Epic 12" (dual 4ohm version)

Dayton 12" HF 4ohm

I can do better than one Earthquake sub, right???

I also need a 2 great sub amps.

Consider the AuraSound 15" woofers. Two of them and an amp with EQ in one of your enclosures will shake the house.

[Johnloudb]

Much Thanks, for all the helpful replies. The room is 14' X 20' X 7.5'H.

The MAD1259 is a dinosaur. I can't understand why it's still being built.

The Epic 12" is a nice driver, but it's really designed for high output, high 'bling' car audio applications

For the minimal cost difference I think the Shiva-X is a better choice than the PE RS-315.

Kevin's driver/amp bundles are a very good deal. The Face amps are significant step up from those most people use. The fan are a bit on the loudish side though..

Good to know about the MAD1259!!

The Shiva-X looks great and would definitely go lower (sealed) without EQ. I can fit 2 RSS315s in each 127L box, but only one Shiva-X. However, Shiva-X also has much more excursion. A dilemma, but I'll do some box modeling. Price isn't really a factor in this deciding between these two drivers though.

[ThomasW]

The Shiva-X looks great and would definitely go lower (sealed) without EQ. I can fit 2 RSS315s in each 127L box, but only one Shiva-X.

I assume this is a function of the box simulation not any physical difference in the drivers.

My take is that you'll want the output from 4 higher Xmax drivers loafing along as opposed to shorter Xmax drivers being 'pushed' hard. So forget about the sim, build the boxes with 2 Shiva-X in each cabinet. You can adjust the "Q" of the system and lower the Fs using a Linkwitz-Transform circuit.

I've never owned a sub that didn't benefit form the judicious use of EQ. So plan on using it...If you get something like the Behringer DEQ2496 you'll have the ability to create an L-T circuit and additional EQ function as well.

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/SubwooferSetupandEQpageDEQ2496.html

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/SubwooferSetupandEQpageDEQ2496-LT.html

[Johnloudb]

I assume this is a function of the box simulation not any physical difference in the drivers.

Correct.

I did plan on building an active shelving filter and using a Behringer DEQ2496 if needed. I wasn't aware you should ignore box Q of a sub, but very glad you pointed that out. So, the Behringer does it all. It all looks very good, so yes I'll be getting the 4 Shiva-X's. Thanks Thomas. :T

[cjd]

I can't speak to the Shiva specifically, but the Tempest-X is just superb. I switched from Dayton IB15's, which are similar vintage to the Mad driver I think. Very audible improvement.

Of course, now that I have all four running with both coils on each wired in, it's even more difference.

C

[ThomasW]

I wasn't aware you should ignore box Q of a sub,

"Q" can't be ignored, but it can be manipulated electronically after the fact. So it's not a make or break situation having a higher "Q" IF there's room in the budget for the necessary electronics.

[Johnloudb]

I can't speak to the Shiva specifically, but the Tempest-X is just superb. I switched from Dayton IB15's, which are similar vintage to the Mad driver I think. Very audible improvement.

Of course, now that I have all four running with both coils on each wired in, it's even more difference.

C

You have 4 Tempest-X drivers running or both the Daytons and Tempest? That's a lot of woofer. I'm trying to use these boxes with 12" holes or I might be interested in Tempest-X.

[Johnloudb]

"Q" can't be ignored, but it can be manipulated electronically after the fact. So it's not a make or break situation having a higher "Q" IF there's room in the budget for the necessary electronics.

I just took my first speaker measurements 3 weeks ago, of Jed's R44 speaker, which measured perfectly flat. So, I'm still a novice. But the information you provided on the Linkwitz-Transform and DEQ2496 looks very straight forward.

If I don't make these good, my dad will go ahead and buy a Earthquake sub which he can't afford. I'm sure he'll be really happy with these though.

[---k---]

Just know your father. Some people always think that more $$ commercial is better for a reason. I've built computers for my father in the past that were excellent, but he still felt I was patching something together with a bunch of old parts. After a couple of rounds, I finally gave up and told him to buy a Dell. He hasn't had much better luck with the Dell, but he thinks it is an upgrade.

[gimpy]

Come on, now. Not "all" Dads are quite like that.:>)

simply, Dad (an old one at that)

[---k---]

no where did I say they were.

[Johnloudb]

Just know your father. Some people always think that more $$ commercial is better for a reason. I've built computers for my father in the past that were excellent, but he still felt I was patching something together with a bunch of old parts. After a couple of rounds, I finally gave up and told him to buy a Dell. He hasn't had much better luck with the Dell, but he thinks it is an upgrade.

Yep, sometimes it seems my dad has a really low opinion of my abilities. He reads all these rave reveiws in Stereophile, Absolute Sound, etc. and I think he just thinks, "How can you do better than that?"

He was really impressed with Jed's Lineup R44, as well as a preamp I built so I think I'm wearing him down.

[Hdale85]

Yeah I run into some people like that...it really kind of sucks when they think like that but hey whatever I guess if they don't want our help?

[Johnloudb]

Well, I know my Dad doesn't mean anything by it. He just likes what he likes, and doesn't want to feel stuck with something just because I built it. Hmm ... this thread is taking and interesting direction.