I have something in my hands - It's 10" long, and 3" diameter

[jkrutke]

Get your minds out of the gutter, it's a Tymphany LAT-250.



I'll be running this through a barrage of tests soon. It sure is a nifty piece of engineering though. Even if it doesn't perform as well as a standard cone driver, something like this could have it's use somewhere. When Mark K and I went to visit these guys, we got a little inside information on it's design. I recall some of the finite element analysis showing flex modes of the frame, rods and suspension parts. So naturally I look upon this with a bit of curiosity.

[augerpro]

Cool. Are those cones inside? Looks like they fire into dispersion cone, like some omni speakers.

What's the intended use for these John? Looks like they get stacked up and bolted to a pair of rods or something.

[---k---]

http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=360

The patented LAT 250 is designed to provide strong bass performance in a new vibration-free, cylindrical form factor. The driver may be configured for use in sealed, vented, bandpass or open-baffle enclosures, and provides high bass output from a very compact transducer. In typical applications, mechanical vibration is more than 90% lower than comparable loudspeakers, even at full output. The LAT 250 employs dual voice coils, and impedance configurations from 2 Ohm to 16 Ohm are available per customer requirements.
Paired with the Peerless Lifestyle driver, the Tymphany LAT, is an ideal solution for lifestyle consumer electronics products such as flat panel TVs and sound bars, MP3 and cell phone docking stations, multimedia PCs and other small devices.

interesting....

[Hdale85]

Looks expensive...

[Hank]

OK, my mind is outta the gutter - for a second I thought maybe you too, are a Texan.

Yes, that looks expensive. Do they have any current implementations?

[jkrutke]

OK, my mind is outta the gutter - for a second I thought maybe you too, are a Texan.

Yes, that looks expensive. Do they have any current implementations?

This thing is only about $60. It is essentially equivalent to ten 3" woofers with 4mm Xmax in each. From what I understand, the bigger models will be quite a bit more expensive.

The "cones" inside are mostly flat but mildly concave with some ribs. There are 2 carbon fiber rods, one connecting to one magnet and the other to the other side, operating through a little clearance hole. Every consecutive cone is in a push-pull arrangement.

I haven't seen it in any commercial products yet, other than a bigger one in an Alpine box. The big marketing push was to get these things into flat panel TVs, and they would seem to be ideal for that.

I think the marketing speak about the lack of vibration might be true: If I hooked up one coil out of phase the thing shakes like hell, but in phase you can't even feel it vibrate in your hand.

[Hdale85]

What kind of out put? How low does it play? Obviously its probably limited? Looks more like a transducer to me... Seems it would be better as a transducer rather then a speaker too.

[peter_m]

This thing is only about $60. It is essentially equivalent to ten 3" woofers with 4mm Xmax in each...

So it has a total effective area of about 300cm^2 with a Xmax of 4mm... that is about the equivalent of almost 2.5 times the popular RS-180 or the ER18 you just used in you latest design.... looks promising. How does it sound?

[Mazeroth]

Here's a link to it at Madisound:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=175&products_id=8288

[Spanky Ham]

I was curious when these would finally come out. John, wasn't one of the big applications supposed to be autos? It looks like it could be a good fit for some car installations.

[Hank]

The marketingspeak (clue word is "lifestyle", as in Boze) tells me it's not a serious hi-fi item. Maybe has it's niche in unobtrusive applications, like B___. :W

[chrismercurio]

I would be interested

in the larger ones. This small one is for including "subs" in lifestyle products and flat panel TV's.

C

[Nemophyle]

The marketingspeak (clue word is "lifestyle", as in Boze) tells me it's not a serious hi-fi item. Maybe has it's niche in unobtrusive applications, like B___. :W

well even "serious" speakers firms use shitty marketingspeaks, i'm not sure that this means anything about the actual performance of the drivers. If it was true hi-vi drivers would be the horriblest drivers on earth :P

Theses guys still have the experience of three among the more serious driver designing companies, AND the concept is very interresting and clever. I'm not sure americans feel it as much as european do, but space being more and more limited especially in the cities (i'm a student in paris and believe me i know what i'm talking about), the ability to reproduce good bass in a vibration free and compact package would be in fact so interresting than they already have the merit of trying.

This thing about space has made me wonder quite a few times, Most of people on this forum don't realize that placing speakers "2 feet out from the back wall, and a minimum of 2-3 feet out from the side wall" (to quote Zaph) is a very difficult guideline to follow to most urban europeans cause speakers would just be right in the middle of the room

Also i'm pretty sure that, besides the marketing speak thoses items are pretty high end. I think the aim of the marketing speak is more to sell the concept to big firms (and maybe do "lower end" versions) than to sell a bunch of theses items to us diyers that aren't a viable market in itself for theses kind of companies.

[Inu_Yasha]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this like a buttkicker? If so how well does it work? Does it get the job done :T

[Mark K]

Well,

I have to agree with Hank. Look at the pdf spec sheet. It's not really a sub, but not high enough to be a woofer.


Having said that, I think it's a cool piece of engineering and would be perfect for the flat panel lifestyle. Definitely worth trying to pop one of these under the 37" lcd in the guest bedroom along with some full range HiVi or TB.


Still, I'm waiting for one that can move a bit more air.

:ball:

[Reet]

Hi Mark K,
Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

[Mark K]

Hi Mark K,
Perhaps this is what you're looking for?

Now that is a contender :E

[Hdale85]

How do you mount these things? Just flat on its side with half of it in the box?

[Dennis H]

Those LAT transducers seem to have some nice properties. They have a small frontal size and inherent mechanical force cancellation. The one Reet linked is about like a 15" pro driver with 8mm Xmax in a 19" x 8.5" package. BUT..... you are still going to need an enclosure unless it's an OB or IB. The enclosure will be just as big as for any other driver so I don't see a lot of size savings there. If you pack it into a tiny enclosure, Q will go through the roof and efficiency will go way down. So, does it really offer anything of value to DIY folks?

[jdybnis]

Look at the LE on the big one. 5mH!

The one that looks the most practical for a home audio application is the LAT500 8/8 ohm. http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...oducts_id=8308

[Audio-fiilis]

Never mind #¤%& loudspeakers

And all blessings to your BIG project.

Way to go, John. :T

I remember our first impression of our girl.

We were somewhat puzzled. "Her hair is all red, what does it mean?"

Well, the midwife knew the answer: "Well, that means that you just got a daughter who is a readhead"

And that's where it all started.... :rofl:

Beware the readheads!

[SQconstable]

Any development on this?

[DS-21]

The only development of which I can think is that I'll be exploring the use of this driver (I bought it from John, along with 4 Peerless 2" widebanders) as a mini-sub that just might fit in the "tunnel" between the trunk and the cabin of a 1998-2005 Mazda Miata in the coming weeks. (I'm also going to experiment with the widebanders to see if they'd be good replacements for the Aura Whisper in the upper door panel of the same car.)

[fjhuerta]

Memo to myself: next time you are going to snipe someone, better make sure you have a valid US address for US-only auctions.

[SQconstable]

The only development of which I can think is that I'll be exploring the use of this driver (I bought it from John, along with 4 Peerless 2" widebanders) as a mini-sub that just might fit in the "tunnel" between the trunk and the cabin of a 1998-2005 Mazda Miata in the coming weeks. (I'm also going to experiment with the widebanders to see if they'd be good replacements for the Aura Whisper in the upper door panel of the same car.)

You've gotta let me know how that works in the Miata! I own a turbo'd 2003 SE needing some subbass.. my daily driver Are you a member on Miata.net?

I wish I had x-ray vision to see how I could mount an LAT on that wall behind the seats. I do know there are those two tunnels which pass over the rear coilovers, but what about the area inbetween? I've already mounted some RMB-8 (8") Kicker free-air "sub" woofers in the Miata's doors and they sound good for bass down to 50-60Hz or so, but nothing truly amazing yet.

[---k---]

2006 MX-5 here. There stereo is so bad, I don't even bother putting cds in it.

Of course, you don't really need a stereo in these.

[SQconstable]

What you do need is a turbo

That factory deck is so horrible sounding, it is to blame for the quality. One of these days I'm going to replace it with an aftermarket one. Maybe a hardtop will be in the plans for the fall-winter, which makes a huge improvement in the stereo.

[---k---]

Getting off topic, but the head unit in my car makes me so mad. It is supposedly the upgraded unit with the in-dash 6-disc changer by the best name in audio. Well, it is "5-channel" sound. 5-channel??? What the heck is that? The head unit does some funky processing to send most of the music to the little like 4" driver in the dash. Garbage.

The drivers in the doors are garbage. They ring something fierce with AM radio. They to speakers behind you between the seats are garbage. It is all junk!

[DS-21]

You've gotta let me know how that works in the Miata! I own a turbo'd 2003 SE needing some subbass.. my daily driver Are you a member on Miata.net?

I used to post a bunch in the audio & electronics section there under the name "Decapotable," which is of course the name for the convertible version of the Citroën DS. However, I haven't been there in a while. There are some guys in the audio section who seriously know their stuff, such as Jason Caudra and "y8s." (And of course, lots of people who don't.)

Which one was the 2003 SE? Was that the blue one with the grey leather and five-spoke wheels with the three indentation at the base of each spoke? Mine's a 2001SE, the one in BRG over tan leather with the Nardi wood steering wheel and shift knob. It's been my daily driver since I moved back to the US in 2004. (The not-my-daily-driver is a 1968.5 Citroën DS-21, IMO the finest car ever made.) No turbo or supercharger in mine because quite honestly the stock engine is enough for me. (The Euro-spec 1.6L VVT might have been even better for my tastes!) However, I wouldn't mind to have the RS Aizawa - sp? - IRTB manifold that Hector at RSpeed ran for a while in his 1994LE, because it sounded truly amazing and I love the "twin Weber DCOE's off of a twincam 4" look of them. (Hector used to do the maintenance on my car, before RSpeed got out of that aspect of the business.) Except for springs and Bilstein shocks out of of an Mazdaspeed Miata, the "mods" on mine are mostly cosmetic: Buck's grille, 16" Panasports to complete the "Lotus Elan Sprint wannabe" look. I do have an Enthuza catback, which sounds spectacular.

I wish I had x-ray vision to see how I could mount an LAT on that wall behind the seats.

You can't. At least, I know that at 6'1" with long legs, I can't!

You could mount them on top, probably. (See "Hakuna" at miata.net.) However, if you were doing that a set of conventional round 8" subs would seem to be a superior solution.

I do know there are those two tunnels which pass over the rear coilovers, but what about the area inbetween?

I would love to use the tunnels, if they'll fit. I'll probably try a bandpass design. If this one turns out OK, I'll buy a second LAT-250 from Madisound for the other tunnel.

You can't go behind the wall, because there's something of minor import - the gas tank! - back there.

I've already mounted some RMB-8 (8") Kicker free-air "sub" woofers in the Miata's doors and they sound good for bass down to 50-60Hz or so, but nothing truly amazing yet.

Funny, my 2001SE came with RMB8's in the doors, put in by its previous owner. Honestly, those drivers are just not very good, and their lone advantage (shallow mounting depth) is utterly wasted in the cavernous Miata doors. After some experimentation with different setups, The best woofer I've found for the Miata's doors thus far is the Peerless SLS8. I like them enough that I stopped looking once I tried them, so there might be a newer woofer that's as good or better. I keep a highpass at 45Hz when I'm running with the hardtop off. With the hardtop on, I have to ratchet down the low end a quite bit because I get rising response from 100Hz down and extension flat to below 16Hz out of the things!

I use them with 2" Aura Whispers in the upper doors, and a crossover of something like 250Hz, fourth order with some EQ tweaking. I modified the Whispers (very) slightly. The sound, slightly high on the 2nd order distortion at louder volumes, is pleasantly nostalgic, giving the system a "honey" tone kind of like an SET amp. It fits perfectly with the extremely retro aesthetic of the 2001SE. I will be experimenting with the 2" Peerless drivers I bought from JK to see how they compare to the Whispers. You can read more about my system design in the miata.net A&E forum.

[Finleyville]

Bring out your dead!

necropost time!

Zaph, any more info on these like measurements or listening impressions?

[DS-21]

Zaph has measurements of both the LAT-250 and the Peerless widebanders on his website under "tidbits."

First impressions, as they arrived this evening but I've yet to hook them up to anything. The little LAT looks really cool, and I can't wait to play with it tomorrow. They're even smaller than I imagined, proving perhaps only my lack of spatial intelligence. I think they'll be great in the Miata's tunnels, and give a usable extra bit of midbass with the top down. If they sound good, I'll buy a second from Madisound. (If I didn't have to have the seat all the way back, I'd consider buying two more to put behind each seat.)

JK packed them well, but two of the four Peerless fullrangers managed to free themselves from their plastic tray. Only damage is a dented dustcap on one of them, though. The Peerless fullrangers have much narrower suspensions than the other two 2" widebanders I've liked (the Aura Whisper and KEF Ci50.) and clearly less travel than the Whispers. That may be an issue in my current setup, because I'm not comfortable running the Peerless SLS8's much higher than 250-300Hz.