DIY scans or Klipsch ?

[bdubs767]

Okay guys I'm a newbie to the HT thing. I am converting from the car audio; rather have a nice system in my house now.

Today I just ordered a Denon 2808ci, looks like a great unit and I hope it is too. For a source Im planning on using my Mac Laptop that goes to my M-audio Solo, which also I use as an RTA, then run the solo coaxil digi to the Denon. The other two/three sources will be an LCD TV when I get one, xbox360, and maybe a blue ray player. For speakers I plan to use the pre outs to go to a seperate amp for the Fronts only, right now I have an audiosource amp 7t which is so so, Ill upgrade it down the road. For the rest of my speakers in the 7.1 Ill just use the Denon to power them. For the subwoofer I have a Aura NS15 ported w/ a Bash 500watt Plate amp running it. For the fronts I plan to make some high end DIY towers and for the rest I just plan to buy some mid range pre made speakers. Im to lazy to build them all lol. Plus when I listen to music Ill be listening to it in 2.1 so they rest are only for movies, tv, video games.

Heres my dilemma though what driver to use for the fronts? Right now the drivers I have next to me as I type are...
Hiq OWII-FS
Scan Speak d3004/6600
Scan Speak 18s Rev
Scan Speak 15w Rev
I have a passive network designed by madi through the LEAP for the 6600 and 18s, it sounds great but I think it can be better, as the design wasnt done w/ the baffle. So Im looking to re do to get it optimal. For the passive this time I will have it once again designed on Leap but with the measurements taken from the baffle. I just dont know what drivers I should use and what would give me optimal results to mesh well with the subwoofer.

I've thought about adding another 18s and doing a MTM, and I've also thought about doing a 6600, 15w, 18s three way, but it would prob be better to use a larger driver for the midbass, so Ive thought about adding a 10" woofer. Yet I also have thought about just re designing the current design I have and tweaking the xover to get optimal performance. Thats also led me to thinking about just selling all the drivers and going for an all peerless exclusive set up w/ HS tweet, 5.5" exclusive, and (2) 8" exclusive per tower, then use the extra cash from a non rev set up to spend more money on better box/ passive xover (even though I dont beleive that the super expensive components will make a difference).

So pretty much I'm lost within my own thoughts. SOME PLEASE POINT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION HERE.

[ThomasW]

Historically Madisound doesn't do a very good job with their LEAP designs so use Meniscus instead.

My personal preference for HT is a MTM using 6.5" or larger drivers, sitting on a bass bin (dual 8"s, 10"s, or 12"s). That way there's plenty of available cone area, and nothing is being over worked.

If the budget isn't tight I recommend using an active crossover and separate power amp between the bass bin and MTM section. This usually a big upgrade over using passive crossove components, and frequently it's not much more expensive that higher-end passive components.

Denon makes ok mid-fi gear, but it's not something that's going to allow you to hear the difference between high-end crossover components and good regular ones.... If you plan on keeping the speakers longer than the receiver, then upgrading the caps and inductors might be worthwhile.

Edit, wanted to add you might be better off using one of the custom designer/builders to create a XO specific to your choice of drivers and baffle. While a more expensive option they could test the final product and fine tune for optimal performance.

[rj45]

scan speak designs

I haven't used any of those drivers, but some folks have.
Here's a link to the renowned Troels Graven web site with a
bunch of Scan Speak designs.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

HTH,
-don

[bdubs767]

Edit, wanted to add you might be better off using one of the custom designer/builders to create a XO specific to your choice of drivers and baffle. While a more expensive option they could test the final product and fine tune for optimal performance.

Well I was planning to use meniscus, I thought they did that? If not where then?

[ThomasW]

Your first post had no mention of Meniscus....Not sure if they'll take your drivers and do measurement from a real baffle or use baffle sims. If they will do neasurements from a real baffle that's the best option.

[bdubs767]

Your first post had no mention of Meniscus....Not sure if they'll take your drivers and do measurement from a real baffle or use baffle sims. If they will do neasurements from a real baffle that's the best option.

I already talked to them, they do one of two things...build the baffles and enclosure for you and use the driver and measure response or have you make the baffle and send it in w/ the driver.

So Ill do that route...just need to decide on the drivers.

Just kills me that I was an idiot when I had madi do the design w/o knowing they did a shitty job. Freaking passive cost $180 lol, stupid hovland cap on the 6600. Wonder if it can be re used in the MTM design hmmmm.

[cjd]

I already talked to them, they do one of two things...build the baffles and enclosure for you and use the driver and measure response or have you make the baffle and send it in w/ the driver.

This is why they end up with better LEAP results than Madisound.

C

[bdubs767]

This is why they end up with better LEAP results than Madisound.

C

I know I wish I knew that before :roll: o well live and learn

[JonW]

bdubs,

You've got a very nice tweeter there. For whatever it's worth, I'm in the middle of a Scanspeak MT design now. Same tweeter as you have, but a slightly different woofer. The project is far from complete, but it's sounding excellent even in its current state. That's excellent to my ears so all caveats apply (YMMV, etc.). So if you're in a hurry for something... you could swap your woofers to the same ones I have (18W/8531), build a cabinet like my current test cabinet (but made more solidly) and use the crossover I have. I'm not saying I recommend it as a finished, polished project by any means. But I gather you want to get started now so it's just an idea.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=25031&page=1&pp=35

[bdubs767]

DIY scans or Klipsch ?

Okay Im new to home audio and honestly becoming lazy and realistic as I don't have much time to sit around and build speakers, but I can sqeeze it in if needed to build them.

I'm just wondering how much would I gain from a DIY system w/ all scan driver vs just buying a 5.1 from a company like http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=30885


Basically what I'm asking are home audio speakers like car audio comp systems....overrated and over priced, thus with DIY you can nearly get triple the performance for your dollar?

[ThomasW]

thus with DIY you can nearly get triple the performance for your dollar?

Yes, if you already own the tools needed to build the speakers, and have the knowledge to use those tools.

[---k---]

If you build an existing, proved design from here or zaph's, they will absolutely destroy those speakers. I know, I had CJD's budget minded $~250 MTMs in my house along side of the Paradigm Studio 40s ($1400) and Dynaudio 42s ($800). CJD's were clearly better. Which, is why I now have the speakers I have.

Though, if you've never designed a home speaker before, there is a lot more than just picking some fancy scan drivers and building a box. See the Misson Accomplished threads, like Jon's ModulaMTM for a good primer on all the thought that can go into it.

[bdubs767]

If you build an existing, proved design from here or zaph's, they will absolutely destroy those speakers. I know, I had CJD's budget minded $~250 MTMs in my house along side of the Paradigm Studio 40s ($1400) and Dynaudio 42s ($800). CJD's were clearly better. Which, is why I now have the speakers I have.

Though, if you've never designed a home speaker before, there is a lot more than just picking some fancy scan drivers and building a box. See the Misson Accomplished threads, like Jon's ModulaMTM for a good primer on all the thought that can go into it.

No Ill be sending them off the meniscus, having them design the enclosure and the xover on leap by doing baffle measurements. I may even have them build the enclosure if I dont have the time...but if I do Ill build them to their exact design.

I would def steal some ones designs but I already have (2) scan speak 18s rev, (2) scan speak 15w rev, and (2) Scan speak d3004/6600.

[augerpro]

I guess it's all dependent on how Meniscus voices the design. I would ask for a rotary Lpad to be inserted in the tweeter circuit so you can tweak the level to your liking. That will probably have the biggest impact on percieved sound quality for most people. My gut feeling is these will sound very different from Klipsch, then again most speakers will...

It looks like you intended to build a 3way? If so one little 18w is bit small for woofer duties. And makes for a complex and expensive XO for no real gain. You could just go 2way bookshelf size with just the 18w or 15w. My suggestion is decide what size you need for woofers and sell off the 18w.

OTOH if you're going use different drivers anyway, why not just build this: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ekta.htm

[---k---]

I didn't catch that this was a continuation of your other thread:

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28133

multiple threads on the same topic is somewhat discouraged around here, for this very reason.

[bdubs767]

I didn't catch that this was a continuation of your other thread:

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28133

multiple threads on the same topic is somewhat discouraged around here, for this very reason.

Sorry...this was a little different topic I thought, this question was more focused on the idea of well designed DIY vs pre made. I just used scans and klipsch as an example. Sorry.

[bdubs767]

Okay, I'm 99% sure I think Ive decided to do this...

Fronts TMWW...per tower, possibly ported for the WW
(1)Hiquphon OWII-FS
(1)Scan Speak 12m rev
(2)Scan Speak 18s rev

Center MTM
(1)Hiquphon OWII-FS
(2)Scan Speak 15w rev

Rears TM...per book shelf
(1)Hiquphon OWII-FS
(1) Scan Speak 15w

Since I have a pair of Hiqophon OWII-FS too, I was going to use them in my car, I'll just use them instead to save a lot of money, and I'll just sell off the SS 6600 or put it in my car (well see).

So what do you guys think? Any concerns? If you didnt read above I'll be having meniscus design the enclosures and xovers in leap w/ baffle measurements. I'll probably build the enclosures, but if I don't have the time I'll have meniscus build them.

[ThomasW]

Threads merged.....

[bdubs767]

Threads merged.....

thanks sorry about that again

[bdubs767]

Actually, I might as well go with peerless exclusive and spend the difference in making the cabinets better. As I say in car audio its all about install and tunning, gear comes second to those. The peerless drivers are 1/4 of the cost of scans and nearly measure the same, far better bang for the dollar

Im leaning more towards this...
Fronts MTWW per tower
Peerless HDS (1)
Peerless exclusive 5.5" (1)
Peerless exclusive 8" (2)

Center MTM
Peerless HDS 1" (1)
Peerless exclusive 5.5" (2)

Rears MT per book shelf
Peerless HDS 1" (2)
Peerless exclusive 5.5" (1)

Sub of course
Aura NS15

Thanks for the advice guys, and putting up with my question, this looks like a great forum, I may have to hang out here more often. Ill keep updates on the project.

Thanks again

[bdubs767]

Also keep an eye for for some scan speak drivers in the FS section

[Hdale85]

I had Klipsch RF-62's and just recently built the Lineup Maxx's and they kill the Klipsch as far as mids and highs lows are about equal but the Maxx's have not broken in all the way yet either.

[bdubs767]

Another question since my scans are selling...I have another question.

How Important is it that the size of the woofer match up for the L/R speakers vs the center? Would it be a huge problem to use 7" drivers in the L/R then 5 1/4"s in the center.

[ThomasW]

Ideally you want the L-C-R speakers matched.

[bdubs767]

Ive been looking into some of the designs on this board and these have really caught my attention...

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=15323

For the price it seems like they can't be beat, and all the designs are done already.

[geoffstgermaine]

Those are nice speakers. I have the center built and I'm building the towers in the spring.