D26 FR Consistency

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  • Jed
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Apr 2005
    • 3621

    D26 FR Consistency

    Posted this in the other Lineup Thread, but I thought I should post here to get some feedback on this. Maybe I'm overreacting?


    JohnL brought up driver consistency of the W4 in the other Lineup Series thread and that sparked my interest in driver consistency tests. I just measured 6 D26s to see how similar the FRs are. I didn't touch the mic or speaker box location and kept the settings exactly the same. I tested in the Center Channel speaker box.

    There was a 1-2db difference between some of the D26s. And some substantial differences in the low end output. That might mean that the Lineup Maxx might develop a slight peak around the crossover point depending on which D26 you get. I tried a few different tweeters in the Lineup Maxx, and found that a simple change of the Lpad can help matters.

    I suggest the following changes to the Lineup Maxx crossover if you detect that the midrange and treble is a bit bright. Change the Lpad 15ohm resistor to something between 8-12 ohms. 8 will cut it the most. If you like that, you could try a 1.5ohm resistor in place of the 2.2ohm resistor in the Lpad. That will raise the top end a bit. Note that some of the D26s very as much as 1 db at the top end. Just post your observations and we can figure out the perfect values for your application. Note that a lot of DIY speaker designers offer a few different Lpad scenarios. Perhaps this helps deal with slight consistency variations.




    What does this mean?

    L-pad values on the D26 may need to be tuned by "ear" if you don't have measuring equipment. I'll give people different L-Pad options so they can tune it to their tastes, or if they happen to get one of the "hotter" tweeters. Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing which one of the D26s I used for the original measurements of the Lineup Series. I think it was one of the less efficient ones, but I didn't think I'd have to do this test at the time.

    Jed
  • Jed
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Apr 2005
    • 3621

    #2
    Latest news.

    The blue response in the post above represents the "latest" D26 tweeter that I just got from madisound. It has the label D26NC55-06 DPD51. It appears to have a different response with more extended low end and slightly recessed top end by about 1 db versus the first D26 tweeters I used to develop the speakers.

    I have 7 tweeters.

    5 of the earlier ones are called the D26NC 55-06 with the label "6 ohms DPE12"
    2 of the more recent tweeters I bought are the D26 NC 55-06 with the label "6 ohms DPD51."

    There are significant differences, enough that I feel I may have to have 2 versions for the tweeter section of EACH of the Lineup Series crossovers based on this discovery.

    Jed

    Comment

    • ThomasW
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 10933

      #3
      Originally posted by Jed
      Latest news.

      The blue response in the post above represents the "latest" D26 tweeter that I just got from madisound. It has the label D26NC55-06 DPE51. It appears to have a different response with more extended low end and slightly recessed top end by about 1 db versus the first D26 tweeters I used to develop the speakers.
      We ran into this when developing the NeoD cc. Jon had a stash of the old tweeters and used those measurements to design the XO. Then we build the first prototype (Speaker Camp I ) using 'new' tweeters I bought from Madisound. Speaker Camp II was a XO redesign using the data from the new tweeters.

      IB subwoofer FAQ page


      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

      Comment

      • Hdale85
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Jan 2006
        • 16073

        #4
        Kind of annoying....because its going to be rather hard for me to get my tweeter crossover out to modify.

        Also makes you curious if in commercial designs this happens. And also if they take the time to even check that sort of thing? Or adjust for it?

        Comment

        • Jed
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 3621

          #5
          Originally posted by Dougie085
          Kind of annoying....because its going to be rather hard for me to get my tweeter crossover out to modify.

          Also makes you curious if in commercial designs this happens. And also if they take the time to even check that sort of thing? Or adjust for it?
          The good companies do, like Avalon because they use Accuton which are notoriously different from batch to batch. Look at Jon's C79 response versus mine for example.

          Thomas- the tweeters I own are only several months apart. When I say old, I mean only from last summer- they are all from China, just different batches.

          Dougie, you PMed me the model number that will be ok with the current crossover design. No worries.

          Comment

          • ThomasW
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 10933

            #6
            This driver was discontinued then brought back by popular demand. In the meantime IIRC production moved to a different factory, So it's not surprising there are some differences between the old and the new versions...

            IB subwoofer FAQ page


            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

            Comment

            • ThomasW
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 10933

              #7
              Originally posted by Jed
              Thomas- the tweeters I own are only several months apart. When I say old, I mean only from last summer- they are all from China, just different batches.
              Oh! that's different and a bummer. Sounds like it's variable L-Pad time...

              IB subwoofer FAQ page


              "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

              Comment

              • Hdale85
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Jan 2006
                • 16073

                #8
                Did I tell you DPE12? Put them back in already.

                So that means there are 3 different ones? DPE12, DPD12, DPE51? or did you mistype something up there?

                Also kind of wish I ordered 5 of them at the same time for the other speakers as now I wonder which I'll get when I go to build my center and surrounds.

                Comment

                • Jed
                  Ultra Senior Member
                  • Apr 2005
                  • 3621

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dougie085
                  Did I tell you DPE12? Put them back in already.

                  So that means there are 3 different ones? DPE12, DPD12, DPE51? or did you mistype something up there?

                  Also kind of wish I ordered 5 of them at the same time for the other speakers as now I wonder which I'll get when I go to build my center and surrounds.

                  Yeah, I've been sloppy with typos lately. Fixed the numbers above.

                  It should be DPE12 or DPD51. You have the DPE12, which was the number I used for developing the speakers.

                  Comment

                  • WillyD
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 675

                    #10
                    So I have DPD51. What were the differences between the DPE12 and DPD51 Jed?

                    Comment

                    • Jed
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Apr 2005
                      • 3621

                      #11
                      It has a bit more low end but less high end. Nothing that can't be "fixed" with the crossover. If you look at the FRs I have supplied in the picture, your tweeter is the blue curve.

                      Edit:

                      After more exploration, I'm not too concerned about the variations between batches of tweeters. I tried 2 different batches and they measured pretty close in my MaxxCC. The top end was a bit different, but I don't think I'd hear the differences.
                      Last edited by Jed; 09 December 2007, 11:19 Sunday.

                      Comment

                      • DDF
                        Junior Member
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 11

                        #12
                        Jed, I saw difference between my 2 D26s. See the W4 zip file at
                        Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo!


                        One of the excel files shows the 2 measures.

                        Dave

                        Comment

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