The Aethers: budget Dipoles from Iowa DIY 2007

[Andy_G]

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[Mudjock]

Andy,

I'd like to hear some more background on these for a couple of reasons....

There were a number of dipole and open-backed mid speakers at DIY Iowa this year and I thought they all sounded better than expected based on my preconceived opinions of the drivers. I think some of this had to do with the venue - a couple recent DIY Iowa events were held in a small to medium sized conference room that always contributed some muddiness and seemed to destroy any real imaging. This year, the venue was much better IMO and really seemed to highlight imaging and soundstaging. The biggest problem we had was the stage floor, which sometimes overemphasized woofers close to the floor or downfiring ports.

This year, I took a little step back from the pursuit of stiffer cones and steeper slopes to play with things like second-order slopes, series crossovers, poly, paper, and kevlar cones. I did find some interesting things... The Vifa XT-25 really is much easier to deal with using a series crossover and sounded better that way than anything I could come up with in a parallel crossover. The HiVi D6.8 sounded really great using a second order acoustic crossover to a Seas T25C001 - the driver integration and overall room response was obviously different and more pleasing in many regards vs. trying to implement the same drivers with a more typical LR4 approach.

I will say that I think the proliferation of better measurement and design tools, coupled with material science and motor design advances have raised the bar considerably with regard to diy designs. While achieving greatness hasn't got any easier, it is now possible for many people to get 80-90% solutions (which still kick the tar out of most of what resides in the consumer marketplace) without having to resort to building others designs. This trend was clearly on display in Iowa this year, where there were 31 widely differing pairs of speakers that clearly put the focus on design tradeoffs - since all were reasonably well implemented.

By the way Paul, congratulations on your win in the budget class. The Aethers are smooth and well integrated throughout the frequency spectrum and had the frequency extremes covered as well or better than anything else in the class. Congratulations also on your impending wedding - introduces a whole new set of tradeoffs and complexity, but significantly increases the possibilities....

[Undefinition]

However, I still maintain that until you have experienced small poly cones, open back, with a suitable shallow filter, then talk of "lack of detail" and "mush up" is very out-of-line. Larger poly cones, in restrictive boxes with restrictive x-os, then sure, that's only what would be expected !!

Now , if poeple are interested , I will go into the rationale behind the original "Blackwood" that Paul's speakers are based upon.

Yes, actually this would be an excellent place to explain that, Andy. I know I deviated from the original idea in some ways, but a lot of what you told me from the outset about how to go about this project remained on the forefront of my mind as I put this together. If people are interested in the Aethers design at all, then they certainly could benefit from learning about your Blackwoods.

[Dennis H]

Yeah, I'd like to hear it Andy. BTW, we're not really cone bigots here other than the occasional trash talk. Jon is big on metal drivers but his latest 3-way uses poly woofers and a fabric tweeter so go figure.

[Andy_G]

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[Undefinition]

Cut List

Okay, it's not perfect, but it will definitely help you cut some wood. A few of the edges ended up about .25" different in the end product because I tend to cut pieces slightly large, then go over joints with a flush trim bit when I'm finished.

Please note that you will have a few cuts with a 7 degree bevel:
1. The front baffles (inner and outer) have a bevel on the top and bottom
2. The top of the bass bin has a bevel on the front ONLY
3. The bottom of the bass bin has a bevel on the front ONLY

(the directions "front," "top," "bottom" are in relation to how the pieces fit together when the cabinets are put together. If it doesn't make sense, try a dry fit of the pieces, and you'll see what needs to be beveled.)

Don't be intimidated by making beveled or angled cuts. I did all of them with a battery-powered Ryobi circular saw, so don't go telling me you don't have the proper tools!

Enjoy!
Paul

[JasonB]

Paul,

There are a few differences between this drawing and the written description (post #22). I just want to clarify a few things.

1. The depth of the u-frame from the face of the baffle to the back, 4 3/4" or 4 1/2"?

2. The offset of the tweeter from the outside of the u-frame, in post #22 you mention it being 4 1/4" from the edge of the cabinet, and in the part drawings you show it as being 5" from the edge of the u-frame baffle. Taking additional 3/4" added by the u-frame sides this put the tweeter 5 3/4" from one edge of the u-frame and 4 3/4" from the other. What is the actual measurement form the outside of the u-frame to the tweeter center?

I have parts on the way. I hope to start on enclosures soon.

Thanks,

Jason

[Undefinition]

Paul,

There are a few differences between this drawing and the written description (post #22). I just want to clarify a few things.

1. The depth of the u-frame from the face of the baffle to the back, 4 3/4" or 4 1/2"?

Actually, I CUT the pieces 4.75", but after I ran the flush trim bit over them, the final depth is 4.5". So however you cut, the final depth will be 4.5" inches.

2. The offset of the tweeter from the outside of the u-frame, in post #22 you mention it being 4 1/4" from the edge of the cabinet, and in the part drawings you show it as being 5" from the edge of the u-frame baffle. Taking additional 3/4" added by the u-frame sides this put the tweeter 5 3/4" from one edge of the u-frame and 4 3/4" from the other. What is the actual measurement form the outside of the u-frame to the tweeter center?

I have parts on the way. I hope to start on enclosures soon.

Jason

Okay, I screwed that one up on the cut list (I knew I'd miss something). I just measured it on the actual speaker, and the center of the tweeter is indeed 4.25" from the edge of the u-frame cabinet. I'll have to go change that on the cut sheet. By the way, I don't know if cut sheets are easier, or just front, top, and side views with measurements.

I'm glad to hear that Madisound still has the Vifas in stock. I sure hope you enjoy this project.

later,
Paul

UPDATE Cut sheet has been changed. See above post.

[Johnloudb]

OMG! You mean this is one of those "hard cone" sites? Well my mother was right. She said it starts with a an innocent "poly" here or there, then its on to the hard cones, and before you know it your buying ceramics and living on the street. Mommeeeeeeeee, save me from the speaker dealers!

Just say NO! to cones.

a note: phase coherence = first order.

[JasonB]

Aethers complete!

I managed to get my Aethers completed this past weekend, I have a small writeup done and a couple of quick pictures. I plan to get some more listening time in this week as well as some better pics hopefully this weekend. So far I am very pleased with the sound. I really like the open baffle soundstage. The only issues this point are with the room I have them in. It's a pretty live room, I plan to add an area rug soon and I'm hoping that might be a small step in the right direction. I had the chance this weekend to hear them in a much better room that has bass traps and was much less reflective than mine. They sounded great there and I was really pleased with the sound especially considering the cost of parts. I had positive comments form several other people there on the sound as well.

http://jaybrandt.spaces.live.com/?lc=4105

Thanks to Paul Carmody (Undefinition) and all the others who helped him along the way!

Jason

[Johnloudb]

Terrific wood work on those Aethers. I am wondering, is that all veneer or did you use some solid wood on parts?

Anyway, congratulations, they look great. :T

[Andy_G]

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[JasonB]

Terrific wood work on those Aethers. I am wondering, is that all veneer or did you use some solid wood on parts?

Anyway, congratulations, they look great. :T

All the parts are veneered. I would have like to use solid wood for the sides of the open baffle that extend down over the woofer enclosure. That would have allowed me to chamfer the edges or do some other sort of profile, but I was trying to keep this project on a very tight budget.

Jason

[JasonB]

Well done Jason, nicely implemented !! :T Glad you like the sound!

I'm not sure I like the idea of the slight lean back of the MTM. Imo MTM's should be vertical, but I understand your reasoning. Maybe a slightly taller bass box would have solved the problem, or a shorter lounge chair.. whoops, I can't see one.. where do you sit while listening ? :lol:
The design should really put the tweeter at ear level in a sitting position, with a vertical MTM baffle.

For everyone else, I will get around to explaining the design thoughts behind these speakers, its just that I really haven't had time enough to do it properly. sorry !!

I'm hoping that having heard or read comments on Paul's and Jason's speakers that others will have a go at similar designs, and get away from boxed mids and hard cone drivers with complicated higher order x-os . :rofl:

Andy,

I thought very carefully about the tilt on the upper bafle before I went ahead with it. The critical thing with an MTM is that you listen on or very close to the tweeter axis. As long as you are on the tweeter axis you will also be equal distaces from each of the midrange drivers, so I don't see any dissadvantage to the tilted baffle. The 5 degree tilt I used puts me on the tweeter axis at my listening position. One added bonus is that if I am behind my listening position I would be standing, the tilt puts me closer to being on axis there than a taller enclosure would have.

Jason

[Andy_G]

yep, it becomes a design issue, and what is appropriate for the room / listening situation.

That's what you can do much more easily with DIY , be more optimum !! 8)

[Undefinition]

The critical thing with an MTM is that you listen on or very close to the tweeter axis. As long as you are on the tweeter axis you will also be equal distaces from each of the midrange drivers, so I don't see any dissadvantage to the tilted baffle. The 5 degree tilt I used puts me on the tweeter axis at my listening position. One added bonus is that if I am behind my listening position I would be standing, the tilt puts me closer to being on axis there than a taller enclosure would have.

Yes, I definitely understand your reasoning. It probably works, too. I was thinking more about the rear reflections off the midrange drivers, and their interactions with the walls behind them. However, you can damp quite a bit of the rear wave of the mid drivers with quilt batting, and the midrange of this type of design will still blow away that of a boxed speaker.

Andy knows a lot more about open mids than I do, but I know he'll back me up on this.

Oh yeah, one more thing I have found is that the balance of these speakers actually changes with the type of furniture in the room. Oddly enough, they best with cloth upholstery. Go figure. Maybe the voicing needs to be adjusted for leather furniture.

[philip_g]

so whats the word gents, should I replace my modula MT's with these?
For no other reason than I'm bored

[---k---]

replace: no!

Add a second pair because you're bored: yes.

[Undefinition]

so whats the word gents, should I replace my modula MT's with these?
For no other reason than I'm bored

No one says you have to replace, per se. But these are definitely full-range, so maybe you want to keep something smaller around for when you don't want to wake the neighbors. :W

Honestly, I'd love to see anyone attempt these because I want to see what sort of creative things a more patient woodworker could do with the enclosure (excellent job, Jason, by the way). I definitely think that for the money, you'll really be satisfied with the end result.

The only catch here is that Madisound no longer has the Vifa P13 4 ohm drivers. They ARE available at other speaker stores--try Meniscus, Zalytron, Speaker City. I could probably also cook the crossover so you could use regular 8 ohm P13s, in parallel.

To shake things up a bit, a variation of them could easily be built with these--for even LESS money!

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1757

I bought 4 of them to try out, and I'm really impressed with the build quality. They feel much nicer in person than they look in the picture. And look at that FR graph. Doesn't it just scream "Danish"? Since I actually have them on hand, I could physically voice the crossovers and get it just right.

... and then, there's the fact that I have a few designs in mind for siblings to the Aethers. Similar ideas and topologies, different drivers, different cabinet shapes. But I don't want to say too much because I'm afraid people'll be getting on my case to actually make them, and I have to get married this week! Also, where am I supposed to fit all these floorstanders?--no wait, I take that back, I had a bookshelf design in mind, too. Aagh, brain full!

But anyway, back to the original question. I say, build them. With the exception of Andy's Blackwoods, there aren't any other DIY designs like this out there... and they will definitely sound different than any boxed speaker you've ever heard. (If I sound like I'm tooting my own horn here, it's not intentional. This design wouldn't have happened if I hadn't stood on the shoulders of giants ;x( )

[philip_g]

I'm not a good, nor patient woodworker, these are nice for people like me, I can cut the wood with a saw guide and a circ saw pretty easily methinks.


i'd have to replace the modulas with them or rotate the modulas down to rear surrounds I guess. Shame after only 2 years.

Look at the bright side, Thomas could hear them for himself then, if he has any interest.

[Andy_G]

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[Undefinition]

I'm not a good, nor patient woodworker, these are nice for people like me, I can cut the wood with a saw guide and a circ saw pretty easily methinks.


i'd have to replace the modulas with them or rotate the modulas down to rear surrounds I guess. Shame after only 2 years.

Look at the bright side, Thomas could hear them for himself then, if he has any interest.

Yup. I cut them using a battery powered Ryobi circular saw--a little 5" one! Well, that and a saw guide. The cabinets were easy to cut and fit, and most parts were just screw n' glue. You'll finish it in less time than it takes to assemble the crossover for the Modulas! :lol:

Andy's explanation was excellent, by the way, and it does a great job of explaining why these designs work as well as they do. The only thing I'd niggle with is that I DID use a subwoofer instead of a standard 8" woofer. But the curves for it and the Dayton Classic 8" were very similar, so I went for it. I wholeheartedly agree with Andy, however, that I don't like LP handling the vocal range... it's the same reason I crossed over at 200 Hz. If I felt like the Dayton DVC subs were trying to do vocals, I would have immediately tossed them and found another woofer.

The thing I regret the most about this design is that I chose a discontinued driver for the midrange. But when I first set out to build these, all I wanted were some open-back speakers that sounded better than my dad's Martin Logans. It was for selfish reasons! But the fact that they were so successful and people have heard them and enjoyed them makes me happy... I only wish I hadn't locked out so many potential builders with the driver choices.

But I tell you what... I have two similar designs in mind (with much easier-to-obtain drivers), and some cabinet shapes that I think will be real crowd pleasers (and don't worry, I'm a cheapskate; budget is vitally important here). Just don't hold your breath... I don't think they'll be ready until spring of next year. In the meantime, if you really want to build yourself some Aethers, just go ahead and do it. I've heard the Modulas, and they're very classy and refined. It sets a high mark for what a 2-way can do. On the other hand, for the same amount of money, you can do something wildly different and build these.

[Andy_G]

Just for you guys.

Image not available

[ThomasW]

Historically we've unable to host rational discussions about GR-Research products, all the threads end up getting locked.

Problem being I get tired of dealing with rants of fanboys and people shilling the products or the inability of the designer to entertain any form of critical discussion regarding the products. So this is one of the very rare situations where there will be no discussion about a product or a design using the product.

[Dennis H]

Well, drivers aside, I like the shape and the name, Andy. Careful you don't get sued by the AV123 guys for using the Rocket name -- your speaker certainly fits it better than theirs.

[Andy_G]

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[Dennis H]

Andy, if you did want to walk on the wild side with a hard cone, the TB titanium W4-1337SA is pretty flat up to 7K. Looks better than most for what you're doing.

[philip_g]

Historically we've unable to host rational discussions about GR-Research products, all the threads end up getting locked.

Problem being I get tired of dealing with rants of fanboys and people shilling the products or the inability of the designer to entertain any form of critical discussion regarding the products. So this is one of the very rare situations where there will be no discussion about a product or a design using the product.

wanna borrow a ***** that I bought before I knew any better and play with it? She's all yours.

[philip_g]

Yup. I cut them using a battery powered Ryobi circular saw--a little 5" one! Well, that and a saw guide. The cabinets were easy to cut and fit, and most parts were just screw n' glue. You'll finish it in less time than it takes to assemble the crossover for the Modulas! :lol:

Andy's explanation was excellent, by the way, and it does a great job of explaining why these designs work as well as they do. The only thing I'd niggle with is that I DID use a subwoofer instead of a standard 8" woofer. But the curves for it and the Dayton Classic 8" were very similar, so I went for it. I wholeheartedly agree with Andy, however, that I don't like LP handling the vocal range... it's the same reason I crossed over at 200 Hz. If I felt like the Dayton DVC subs were trying to do vocals, I would have immediately tossed them and found another woofer.

The thing I regret the most about this design is that I chose a discontinued driver for the midrange. But when I first set out to build these, all I wanted were some open-back speakers that sounded better than my dad's Martin Logans. It was for selfish reasons! But the fact that they were so successful and people have heard them and enjoyed them makes me happy... I only wish I hadn't locked out so many potential builders with the driver choices.

But I tell you what... I have two similar designs in mind (with much easier-to-obtain drivers), and some cabinet shapes that I think will be real crowd pleasers (and don't worry, I'm a cheapskate; budget is vitally important here). Just don't hold your breath... I don't think they'll be ready until spring of next year. In the meantime, if you really want to build yourself some Aethers, just go ahead and do it. I've heard the Modulas, and they're very classy and refined. It sets a high mark for what a 2-way can do. On the other hand, for the same amount of money, you can do something wildly different and build these.

That's how I built my sub, it's not exactly bootiful but it works. Those little buggers chaw through MDF pretty well. Long as you don't expect anything to be perfectly sqaare anyway :T
I'll keep an eye out, I've wanted to build some dipoles for awhile anyway.

[Andy_G]

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[Andy_G]

deleted

[Undefinition]

Andy, if you did want to walk on the wild side with a hard cone, the TB titanium W4-1337SA is pretty flat up to 7K. Looks better than most for what you're doing.

I know that driver is THE driver right now. And since everyone's entitled to an opinion I'll just say that I've heard it in person on various designs and just wasn't all that thrilled--though the statements are an overall great-sounding speaker. On the other hand, every time I've heard an RS-150 I've liked it. I'm not sure how well either driver would cooperate with this sort of design (unless you use much steeper slopes). But this hobby is all about doing things your own way. You know: "Create your own sound." Make the kind of speaker you'd like to listen to all day long!!!

... but then what do you build once you've done that?

[tpremo55]

Hey Paul, interesting comment on the comparison between the 1337s and the RS150s. I heard both at Iowa DIY - in fact, I congratulated you on the Aethers as you were bringing them down and I was getting ready to present my TA-2s. I felt the Aethers were the hands-down winner in the group - obviously I was not alone - congratulations! :T

But back to your comments about the RS150 vs. the TB1337s... I'd say the speaker that impressed me the best second to the Aethers in the budget class were Scott's RS150/NEO3s - and I may very well be building them as a great sounding compact speaker. Last year, it was the Visaton Ti-100 in John P's small 2-way at the 2006 Iowa DIY event that really perked my ears. Then when the 1337s were said to be all that at 60% the price, I was very interested. After auditioning his Statements, I decided to build a set. I've truly enjoyed the Statements and really like the detail of the 1337s - a detail that I've not heard in a similar size and priced driver. I find them clean, fast, <enter a bunch of meaningless babble here>, and a notch or two above the RS150 based on my tastes today. The RS150 wins hands-down on base extension (still amazed at what that little driver will do), and overall has a warmer sound than the 1337s. For those that don't like them, I would guess and say the 1337s tend to sound a little clinical. I'd be interested to see if people that don't care for the 1337s don't like metal cone drivers in general - like the Seas W18s in Dave Ellis' set. I really liked Dave's designs and at first listen would pick the Seas version over the Accutons.

Would you share what it is that you find lacking in them?

[Andy_G]

deleted

[Undefinition]

Hey Paul, interesting comment on the comparison between the 1337s and the RS150s. I heard both at Iowa DIY - in fact, I congratulated you on the Aethers as you were bringing them down and I was getting ready to present my TA-2s. I felt the Aethers were the hands-down winner in the group - obviously I was not alone - congratulations!

Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoyed your TA-2s by the way. They were very pleasing, and would make for great extended listening.

But back to your comments about the RS150 vs. the TB1337s... I've truly enjoyed the Statements and really like the detail of the 1337s - a detail that I've not heard in a similar size and priced driver. I find them clean, fast, <enter a bunch of meaningless babble here>, and a notch or two above the RS150 based on my tastes today. The RS150 wins hands-down on base extension (still amazed at what that little driver will do), and overall has a warmer sound than the 1337s. For those that don't like them, I would guess and say the 1337s tend to sound a little clinical. I'd be interested to see if people that don't care for the 1337s don't like metal cone drivers in general - like the Seas W18s in Dave Ellis' set. I really liked Dave's designs and at first listen would pick the Seas version over the Accutons.

Would you share what it is that you find lacking in them?

The statements were just an excellent sounding set of speakers. Period. They really cover the whole spectrum very well, and create a "wall of sound" both visually and audibly.
I'm not saying I didn't like the 1337's in the Statements. They did their job just fine. There was plenty of detail in the midrange, and certainly no distortion. I guess what I felt was missing was just some sort of *spark.* They just never really "came to life" for me. I guess I like a certain richness from a speaker (you can claim it's distortion. I won't be offended). And maybe my thinking is a bit flawed--that maybe what I like is a bit of characteristic sound to a speaker, and the whole purpose of something like the 1337 is to be "sonically transparent." Nonetheless, they still sound like loudspeakers to me--albeit very clean and detailed ones--but they didn't really give me the feeling I was listening to a live performance.

Dave Ellis' 1801s (the Seas Excel ones), however just blew me away! I have never been so engrossed by listening to a 2-way speaker. They had a beautifully rich sound, and the imaging and soundstage were unprecedented. It was like taking a swim in music! Instruments sounded like their real-life counterparts, and made me forget I was listening to boxed loudspeakers.

I know, I know, we're all here making boxed loudspeakers. But the kind of sound I like to hear mine make is a wide frequency spectrum, rich, and exciting. It's one thing to listen to a speaker that makes you stroke your chin, raise your eyebrows as golden ears say, "Now that is flat and detailed." But it's another thing altogether to hear a song on a set of speakers that just makes you want to jump up and dance, or grin ear-to-ear and say, "That's AWESOME!"

But that's just the sound I like to hear. It takes all types to make the world go 'round.

[1Michael]

Those little buggers chaw through MDF pretty well.

I'll have you know I quite chawing on MDF. I chaw Birch Ply now...

[tpremo55]

t

I'll have you know I quite chawing on MDF. I chaw Birch Ply now...

Just a pinch between the cheek and gum...

[tpremo55]

Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoyed your TA-2s by the way. They were very pleasing, and would make for great extended listening.


The statements were just an excellent sounding set of speakers. Period. They really cover the whole spectrum very well, and create a "wall of sound" both visually and audibly.
I'm not saying I didn't like the 1337's in the Statements. They did their job just fine. There was plenty of detail in the midrange, and certainly no distortion. I guess what I felt was missing was just some sort of *spark.* They just never really "came to life" for me. I guess I like a certain richness from a speaker (you can claim it's distortion. I won't be offended). And maybe my thinking is a bit flawed--that maybe what I like is a bit of characteristic sound to a speaker, and the whole purpose of something like the 1337 is to be "sonically transparent." Nonetheless, they still sound like loudspeakers to me--albeit very clean and detailed ones--but they didn't really give me the feeling I was listening to a live performance.

Dave Ellis' 1801s (the Seas Excel ones), however just blew me away! I have never been so engrossed by listening to a 2-way speaker. They had a beautifully rich sound, and the imaging and soundstage were unprecedented. It was like taking a swim in music! Instruments sounded like their real-life counterparts, and made me forget I was listening to boxed loudspeakers.

I know, I know, we're all here making boxed loudspeakers. But the kind of sound I like to hear mine make is a wide frequency spectrum, rich, and exciting. It's one thing to listen to a speaker that makes you stroke your chin, raise your eyebrows as golden ears say, "Now that is flat and detailed." But it's another thing altogether to hear a song on a set of speakers that just makes you want to jump up and dance, or grin ear-to-ear and say, "That's AWESOME!"

But that's just the sound I like to hear. It takes all types to make the world go 'round.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I can certainly respect that. We like that it takes all kinds - otherwise none of us could afford what we like based on that law of supply and demand and price gauging tendencies of the global economic trend response.

[carlton]

So....are the Peerless 830341's a drop in replacement for the vifa's? I'd like to build these for My Sister.The price sure is right.

[Undefinition]

So....are the Peerless 830341's a drop in replacement for the vifa's? I'd like to build these for My Sister.The price sure is right.

Sorry I missed your question. I was away for the last week on my honeymoon.

I would not say the Peerless are "drop in" replacements, but they will work in the configuration with just a bit of adjustment to the padding resistors (I'd try to keep the XO points the same). Call madisound and see if they have 4 of them left, and if you still want to do it, I'll tweak the crossover.

-Paul

[philip_g]

I'll have you know I quite chawing on MDF. I chaw Birch Ply now...

I'll have to do so too I guess.

[carlton]

Sorry I missed your question. I was away for the last week on my honeymoon.

I would not say the Peerless are "drop in" replacements, but they will work in the configuration with just a bit of adjustment to the padding resistors (I'd try to keep the XO points the same). Call madisound and see if they have 4 of them left, and if you still want to do it, I'll tweak the crossover.

-Paul

Hi..yes I would appreciate anything you come up with..I will probably start on this next month. thanks.

[Undefinition]

Alt Aethers

Okay, this is all just calculation and simulation, but it looks pretty good to me. In fact, the Peerless mids modeled better than the Vifa P13WGs. The Peerless make a perfect LR2 rolloff on the low end of the band pass... whereas the Vifas were sort of scraggly (I think the Vifas had some sort of built-in BSC at their low end, whereas the Peerless are perfect plateaus).

Two changes:
1. The high pass capacitor on the mids has now been raised to 200 uF (that's a big cap; my wallet says electrolytic).
2. The series resistor on the mids has been raised to 5 Ohms.

If I were to actually build this (which I will probably do in the next few weeks, at least to make a comparison), I'd try values between 100 and 200 uF on the band pass capacitor.

Image not available

[Undefinition]

I was dragging my feet on actually testing this version out, since it meant building a new set of top cabinets. But I finally got around to it this weekend. The experiment was a success. If you wanted to try out the "Aether Experience," but missed out on the bargain Vifa P13WG 4 ohm drivers at Madisound, then there is still hope!

As Andy predicted, the Peerless (830341) drivers work very well in the open-mid arrangement. The crossover I simulated in PCD turned out very close to reality; the only thing I changed was that I cranked the mids up a bit (but this was just a personal preference). I found that with the mids a bit higher, the soundstage got much deeper, like a 3D glasses effect. So if you attempt this iteration, try values between 3-5 on the series resistor on the mids to see what you like.

Would I prefer one over the other? No. The only thing the Vifas P13s have on the Peerless drivers is that they cosmetically look better. (However, at $10 apiece for the Peerless, I just can't complain.) Blindfolded, I don't know if I would know which was which.

The last issue on this design before I leave it alone forever is that the Peerless drivers will also be extinct eventually. If there's still interest at that point, I have two other still-in-production mid drivers in mind.

[Undefinition]

Okay, it's been a great learning experience designing these things, and a real joy to listen to them and have others enjoy them and want to build them. Unfortunately, I feel as though people are groaning a bit because the mid drivers I have used are unobtanium.

I have one last idea for mid drivers before I call this design "complete." That is, the Tang Band W5-704D SHOULD work as a mid driver. I modeled it up last night, and after a bit of component tweaking, it fit in like a jigsaw puzzle. (Sorry no crossover diagram or FR graph right now, it was too late at night to get those together)

So this is it: a hybrid dipole you can build on a budget (Still comes in under $300), and requires no active EQ or extra amps. The cabinets are also relatively easy to build. They are very "full range" with bass extension down past 30 Hz. And I don't mean to brag, but they sound pretty darn good... the competition in the budget class at Iowa 2007 was tough, but they did win.

HOWEVER, trying out these drivers to make sure the design works will cost me money, so I'm not exactly champing at the bit to do it. But if there is enough interest from people who want to build them, I'll gladly do it. If there's not enough interest, however, I'll save my $100, and simply enjoy my Aethers as they are for years to come; obsolete drivers and all.

So what I need to know is: who out there is actually interested in building this design, if I use drivers that ARE readily available? I need a show of hands.

Thanks,
Paul Carmody