Stumped?!

[Ray Collins]

I just finished building a pair of Rythmik 15" sealed, powered subs and connected them to my Yamaha RX-V850's(early 1990's vintage) Low Pass terminal(line out)....the Low Pass/line out is connected to the line in on the sub's amp. No sound from the sub when on FM and no sound when on cable TV. I temporarly connected the subs to the center out on the receiver and got a signal so I know the amps work. Next, I connected my new Sony BDPs300 (won it in a golf tournament) to the Yamaha and I got a signal to the subs but at a very low level...I had to crank the volume up to 2/3 capacity to get a SPL compatable to the front and rear speakers.

What gives? Does the Low Pass terminal only work with the DVD input?

Ray

[Dennis H]

You need to set your speakers to "small" in the Yamaha's setup to redirect any bass from 2-channel sources to the sub.

[Ray Collins]

Thanks Dennis...I only have Normal, Wide or Phantom settings. I have turned the sub's volume to max and I can hear them but they are not very noticeable. Also, the subs work with and without the Dolby engaged. ???

[PMazz]

With most DD receivers you have to set the "subwoofer" to on or yes and, as Dennis said, set the speaker setting from large to small.

Pete

[Ray Collins]

Pete, this is what I have:

Normal=Select this mode when the center speakers are smaller than the fronts, the bass tone will be output from the front speakers.

Wide=Select this mode when center speakers are the same size as the fronts

Phantom=Select this when you do not have a center speaker

There is no option to set the subwoofers to ON or Yes.

So.....????

What is a DD Receiver...Dolby?

[cjd]

This setting probably is on your MAIN (front) speakers, not just the center!

C

[Brian Bunge]

Guys, "early 1990's vintage" and "Normal, Wide or Phantom" just screams Dolby Pro Logic.

[Dennis H]

"early 1990's vintage"

Oops, missed that. Back in the day, Sony was doing their own thing on bass management (just like they've done their own thing on almost any audio standard that ever came along -- I firmly believe Sony is EVIL. ) Time for a new receiver that works according to industry standards.

[brent_s]

Yes, the RX-V850 was a Dolby Prologic only unit, and one of the better units available at the time...am I showing my age? The sub out on it is set at 200hz, I believe. The mains are run full range regardless, no highpass filter available. I don't remember there being anything needing to be configured to engage the sub out.

Ray, what input are you using on the Rythmik amp? What are your setttings...gain, xover, any switchable options, etc. It may be as simple as the cascaded xovers causing problems or the 850 just not having enough drive level for the Rythmik amps. How did you connect the BDP when you got sound...the 850 doesn't have an input labeled DVD.

Dolby Digital/DTS are far superior surround formats compared to DPL. DPL is a stereo signal that uses matrix logic to derive a center and rear channel from the l/r stereo pair. Dolby Digital and DTS are 5.1 formats with 5 discrete channels plus a dedicated low frequency effects channel. Lots of information at www.dolby.com, if you're interested in the gory details.

-Brent

[---k---]

You've got two options.

1) Buy a new receiver. I think this is the best option. It will have the correct options.

2) You can run the speaker wires from the receiver for two speakers to the amp on the sub, and then run the speaker wires from the sub amp to the speakers. This will allow you to use the crossover on the sub and all. Not a bad option, and many thik it is the best way. It just costs a bit more in cheap speaker wire.

[brent_s]

Ray, just took at look at the Rythmik DS15 kit's amp. With the 850, I think you might be better off using speaker wire from the main left/right outs to the speaker level inputs on the Rythmik amp. Adjust the Rythmik's low pass to taste.

Any chance you have the 370 set to Auto On...if the 850 doesn't have enough drive level, it won't even wake the 370 up.


Probably not what you want to hear, but it's probably time to start thinking about a receiver upgrade.

-Brent

[Ray Collins]

Thanks Guys....
I just got home from the office and my wife has called me to dinner. Give me a few minutes to eat and digest(pardon the pun)your responses. I think a new receiver or ? is in order.

Ray

[Ray Collins]

brent_s, I think you are spot on. The RX-V850 is a Dolby Pro Logic unit only. For several years I ran a Velodyne powered sub with it using the speaker wire out and back configuration and it worked very well with plenty of gain. I thought the line out drive was standard on all units of all ages?!...a line out is a line out is a line out?!...I guess not. The 370 amp is energized but produces a low level of output with the level/gain/volume fully advanced.

OK....steer me to a new receiver....And THANKS.

[coctostan]

There are many to choose from. I would suggest something HDMI for future compatibility. Do you have an HDTV? What sources?

You could try the Panasonic SA-XR57. It is supposed to be one of the better sounding entry level receivers around. You should notice a very nice improvement in the surround quality when jumping to one of the discrete formats. Just make sure you send a digital signal from your DVD/Sat/Cable box.

I'm sure others will have opinions on other options. It really depends on what your requirements are.

[---k---]

I'm pretty happy with my Pioneer 1015tx. Get the new 1017tx and it will do you.

[brent_s]

brent_s, I think you are spot on. The RX-V850 is a Dolby Pro Logic unit only. For several years I ran a Velodyne powered sub with it using the speaker wire out and back configuration and it worked very well with plenty of gain. I thought the line out drive was standard on all units of all ages?!...a line out is a line out is a line out?!...I guess not. The 370 amp is energized but produces a low level of output with the level/gain/volume fully advanced.

OK....steer me to a new receiver....And THANKS.

Where do you have the crossover set on the 370? Should be at max to start. Cascading a lower cutoff with the 370 after the 850 has already lowpassed the signal once could produce very low output. If you pick up a couple of RCA Y-splitters you could place the 370 in the preout/amp in loop to avoid the double xover. Yes, folks, the Yamaha 850 allowed direct, unadulterated access to it's left/right main amps...and they're happily running a pair of nominally 4 ohm NHT1259s in my living room system right now.

I looked at the 850's online manual since mine is in the attic somewhere. The sub out is spec'd at .8v at some impedance. The main left/right preouts are spec'd at a slightly more normal 1v. I've run NAD and Adcom THX certified amps off the 850's preamps in the past with no apparent drive problems, but THX spec's a standard of 1v input for 100 watt output , or 1mv for 1 watt as part of their amp certification. Depending on the input impedance of the 370, you may not even be getting .8v from the sub out. If you look at the bench measurements of current receivers in Sound & Vision Magazine, you'll see some with sub outs capable of 9v unclipped output, with 6v being a fairly typical average.

As others have said, you need to define your source/feature requirements and budget before anyone can give you a realistic recommendation. The good news is it's a great time to be shopping for a receiver in terms of features for price. I'd give a strong look at the Yamaha RX-V661 in the $400-500 range. A friend of mine is using it as a prepro to replace a Sherwood-Newcastle AVP-9080, which itself was a Sterophile recommended component around '99-'00 when it debuted. The x600 and x700 RX-V units are being clearanced at most places to make room for the x800s if you want to move higher up the Yammie line. Heck, even the little Pioneer 516 ($100 on a black Friday deal) in my living room system provides good DD/DTS processing and bass management if you don't need HDMI, multi-room, etc. It's amps probably aren't as high quality as the 850's, but on surround demos, I've measured 105db peaks at the sweet spot in a 22'x20'x9' room that's pretty much open to the rest of the house without any audible signs of stress.

-Brent

[Ray Collins]

Brent,
The crossover is set to 160Hz which is the max. I am getting sound with the 370's volume at max allbeit weak. I think your analysis is correct in that the drive voltage probably is low and thus the culprit. I am looking at my manual, page 9--Coupler terminals--and am confused regarding using the two RCA-Y splitters and the amp in loop. I want to make this work and I understand your plan to use the preamp output of the front speakers but I do not understand how to hook it up using two RCA-Y's. Please explain the use of two RCA-Y's and which front terminals to use. My thought is to simply plug the cables into the preamp Front Out and the othe ends into the 370's line in's.?? I think I would also need to put a jumper across the two FRONT IN terminals??

Regarding a new receiver...that is at the top of the list along with a new(first one)52" HD flat screen. Both are way overdue. My budget for the receiver is about $1000+ or -. It will be used for HT and a little late night listening as I am doing now. HDMI, HD Dolby and etc. is definitely needed to accommodate the to-be-purchased flat screen. I don't buy often so I need to cover everthing I can that is current. Are separates an option or is this overkill for a small --13' x 12'--HT room?

While I am asking, I intend to build five new speakers for my HT system--LCR and surrounds. What do you fellows recommend that is suitable for my space and pending AVS or Pre/Proc purchase? Several speaker designs here that look excellent from--Jon,Thomas,Jim,Jed,Et al as well as John Krutke.

Thanks for your interest and replies.

Ray

[Ray Collins]

Confused

I got home early and tried using the Front Out terminals to energize the sub amps. I ran a line from each sub's line in to the left and right Front Out on the Yamaha. Works great with plenty of gain on the subs...HOWEVER..I get nothing out of the front speakers. I placed a jumper across the Front In inputs and I have rear sound on the surrounds but nothing up front??!!

Ray

[ThomasW]

I ran a line from each sub's line in to the left and right Front Out on the Yamaha.

That's backwards.

You're making this way to complicated....

There are several ways to do this, the easiest are......

1) Remove the front out/in jumpers and run cables from the receiver's front out jacks to the sub's L/R line in jacks. Next take cables from the sub's L/R line out to the receiver's L/R front in.

or

2)Leave the front jumpers in place.

Take a single cable put a "Y" on the end of it. Plug the ends of the "Y" into the line in jacks on the sub. Plug the other end into the 'low pass out' on the receiver.

[Ray Collins]

Thanks Thomas but:

Your #2 recommendation was the first and obvious effort(see post #1).

Recommendation #1 is in effect and it does not work.

[ThomasW]

No sound from the sub when on FM and no sound when on cable TV.

What soundfield settings are you using?

[brent_s]

The way to use two Y splitters.

1) Connect the "base" of the Y's to the left/right 850 line outs.
2) Connect one of the Y legs to the corresponding left/right 850 line inputs.
3) Connect an RCA cable from the other leg of the Y to the low level inputs on the 370 plate amp.

*If you get a 1 plug/2 jack splitter, you'll need 4 RCA cables total...2 to connect the splitter to the line inputs and 2 to go to the sub. A 1 plug/2 plug unit will require a gender changer for the runs to the sub.

Simplest path to more bass:
A) Connect speaker wire from the 850's "B" post directly to the speaker level inputs on the 370. You probably have extra wire laying around. Activate the A&B speaker outs together for sub use.
B) Adjust the 370's xover to taste. There's no point in passing your main speaker signal through the 370 to your l/r speakers...the 370 doesn't have a corresponding high pass that I'm aware of.

-Brent

[Brian Bunge]

What you've affectively done is connect the subs to the outputs but then shorted the inputs together. You have NOT wired things up as Thomas suggests.

Here's what I believe is an easier way even than Thomas' suggestion in that it only requires one pair of RCA cables along with two y-adapters (although it accomplishes the exact same thing).

Get two y-adapters (2 male to 1 female) and plug the two male RCA's on one to the left input/output for the mains and then take the other and do the same with the right input/output for the mains. Then plug one male to male RCA cable between the female RCA connection on one y-adapter and between one subwoofer input. Then repeat to connect up the other subwoofer.

Here's a pic of the adapter for clarity.

[Ray Collins]

Thanks guys....we have dinner guests. I will try later--if they don't stay too late--or in the morning.

Ray

[Ray Collins]

Thanks Brent & Brian....I will stop by the electronics shop tomorrow, pick-up the splitters and give it a try. If the line route fails I will use the B speaker outs & wire which I know will work. I am stubbornly intent on making the line connection work...the solution is there, it is a matter of putting a finger on it.

Thanks....

[robertwb70]

I had an RXV-870 many years ago and IIRC the setting for the sub woofer (on/off) and levels for all the speakers was only accessible from the remote-the front panel only had a few rudimentary buttons.
It was a long time ago though and I could be mistaken

[Ray Collins]

Problem Slolved

Your solution worked. I purchased two RCA-Y's, connected them across the inputs/outputs and connected the subs. Plenty of volume from the subs.


THANKS FELLOWS!!!!!