Subwoofer recomondations for small music only system

[ATB]

I would like to put together a subwoofer to complement a pair of Zaph L18s I am putting together. This will be for a moderate volume system in a moderately sized room.

I am considering:

RSS315HF in 2 cu ft PE box w/ 500w PE amp

RSS390HO or HF in 3 cu ft PE box with 500 or 1000w PE amp

12” servo sub (won’t mention brand due to rules)

Anything else (CSS SDX15, etc)

This is a music only system for now. I may go to stereo subs down the road, but want to start with one. I am leaning towards the 12” RS for cost and simplicity. The servo option looks intriguing, but I am a bit worried about the lack of output over 100Hz. I am pondering the 15" options since due to the number of recommendations here, but I doubt I have the low end reqs for this system that most of you do.

[ThomasW]

How big is the room? What's the distance from the sub to the listening position. What's the desired output at the listening position? What size box do you want to live with? And finally what's the budget for this project?

[BobEllis]

That Zaph speaks highly of the RSS315 says a lot to me. Another option to consider in the 12" category is http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=653 it has almost twice the stroke for about the same price delivered.

However, I lean towards at least one 15" sub. It's the old "no replacement for displacement" argument. See the sub for under $400 thread for a good value driver - although the XJ15 is no longer available its replacement should be along shortly.

[peter_m]

This is unrelated, how do I subscribe to the thread without having to post in it?

[ATB]

How big is the room? What's the distance from the sub to the listening position. What's the desired output at the listening position? What size box do you want to live with? And finally what's the budget for this project?

room size is prob 10x20
Distance to listening pos is 4-5 feet
output needs to be "loud enough"
<= 4 cu ft box
budget is <1k, but if I can get away with less I don't have to spend that much.

[pbarach]

how to subscribe

This is unrelated, how do I subscribe to the thread without having to post in it?

At the top of each thread is a yellow bar. In that bar, click on Thread Tools, and you will see a menu where you can choose to subscribe.

[ThomasW]

IMO the 390 is a good 'woofer', but for real-world sub use one would need to use them in multiples to ensure adequate headroom.

If you're buying immediately the CSS SDX15 would be the driver of choice.

From what we've seen with the XJ-15"s, it's a safe bet Kevin and Kyle's new woofers are going to be good as well.

Can you live with a fan cooled pro-sound amp? If so you get a lot more for the money compared to plate type amps.

[JonP]

FWIW, I was poking around with RSS315HF boxes for a friend who keeps thinking about a DIY sub, but has commitment issues... :roll:

As I recall, you might want to look at a 3 cuft box, either sealed, or tuned to about 20Hz. It was worth the extra size for the sealed version and for a ported it came out pretty nice with low group delay, and a good extension boost. A 500W amp was all you would want, especially with the ported version.

Heck, put in the port, and get the right sized Nerf football, or one of those removable rubber plumbing plugs, and make it a convertable!

Here's hoping my buddy decides to get it in gear before the PE free shipping ends tomorrow....

[JasonB]

I would like to put together a subwoofer to complement a pair of Zaph L18s I am putting together. This will be for a moderate volume system in a moderately sized room.

I am considering:

RSS315HF in 2 cu ft PE box w/ 500w PE amp

RSS390HO or HF in 3 cu ft PE box with 500 or 1000w PE amp

12” servo sub (won’t mention brand due to rules)

Anything else (CSS SDX15, etc)

This is a music only system for now. I may go to stereo subs down the road, but want to start with one. I am leaning towards the 12” RS for cost and simplicity. The servo option looks intriguing, but I am a bit worried about the lack of output over 100Hz. I am pondering the 15" options since due to the number of recommendations here, but I doubt I have the low end reqs for this system that most of you do.

It just so happens I have a very similar sub setup to the first option you are describing, and my room is similar in size to what you mentioned above, and I have a set of Zaph's L18's. My RSS315HF is in 2.65 cu ft tuned to 23 hz and can be converted to sealed by plugging the port. In sealed mode in my room it's all I need for music and sounds great even in the ported mode. I purchased a Behringer Feedback Destroyer at the same time and it works great for correcting the in room response.

http://jaybrandt.spaces.live.com/

Jason

[peter_m]

Zaph L18, L15 or ER18

Off topic: People who built the Zaph L18, why did you pick it over the L15? Do you think the ER18 will be better and worth waiting for?

[ATB]

Off topic: People who built the Zaph L18, why did you pick it over the L15? Do you think the ER18 will be better and worth waiting for?

I prefer metal tweets and I wanted the extended low end capabilities of the 7" woofer so I wouldn't necessarily need a sub (ha)

[AJINFLA]

I would like to put together a subwoofer to complement a pair of Zaph L18s I am putting together. This will be for a moderate volume system in a moderately sized room.

I am considering:

RSS315HF in 2 cu ft PE box w/ 500w PE amp

RSS390HO or HF in 3 cu ft PE box with 500 or 1000w PE amp

12” servo sub (won’t mention brand due to rules)

Anything else (CSS SDX15, etc)

This is a music only system for now. I may go to stereo subs down the road, but want to start with one. I am leaning towards the 12” RS for cost and simplicity. The servo option looks intriguing, but I am a bit worried about the lack of output over 100Hz. I am pondering the 15" options since due to the number of recommendations here, but I doubt I have the low end reqs for this system that most of you do.

I'm sorry, but how on earth does ATB need more than a single 12 right now?
In a highly simplified analysis, lets assume the L18 is 8ohms 85db/watt/1m sensitive. At 128w RMS , that's 106db/1m (hardly moderate IMHO) per speaker. A single powered 12 should easily keep up and by no means be the limiting factor on music. Does he listen exclusively to pipe organ?
ATB, what lack of output above 100hz are you referring to? You do realize, possibly looking at a graph, that a low pass filter is engaged? How high do you intent to cross and expect seamless integration?
I would strongly suggest a single 12 (whichever one) for now and a second identical one later, so that each can be in close proximity to the L18's.
Actually, you might be able to go two 12's to begin with (recommended) and still be under a grand. That will be perfect for low distortion music and still give you plenty of growing room for a larger music system or even a small HT, as long as your SPL levels don't require waking the dead.

cheers,

AJ

[ATB]

Looks like Dayton is having a 15% off sale for everything need (RS 12", 500w amp, box)

[JonP]

And, till midnight tonight (the 20th) they have the free (well, up to $50 max) shipping on orders above $99... The box and driver weigh a ton, so you'll get full use on that!

[ThomasW]

I'm sorry, but how on earth does ATB need more than a single 12 right now?

It's called 'investing for the long term'...

Sometimes 'now' isn't necessarily the appropriate target. A few dollars more spent on a better driver/drivers and amp, can create an investment used for years, instead on one needing replacement/upgrading with the next set of mains or move in a different acoustical space.

This is particularily true with subs, since it's easy to keep them throttled back, and rather difficult to increase output when excursion limited....

[JasonB]

Off topic: People who built the Zaph L18, why did you pick it over the L15? Do you think the ER18 will be better and worth waiting for?

I chose the L18 project over the L15 for a few reasons:

1. I didn't have a sub at the time

2. The tweeter is slightly better. (According to Zaph and others)

3. The optional high frequency contour network

I have high hopes for the ER18 project, the L18 is very good but the ER18 may turn out even better due to the ER18's lower non-linear distortion and the lower crossover point Zaph is using. I think he is getting pretty close to posting the project, and I think it's worth the wait. I'm hoping once it's posted that he'll comment on his impressions of the L18 project vs. the ER18 project.

Jason

[ATB]

Bit of a direction change...

Had some discussions with the wife and a new intriguing possibility has shown itself. We used to have a glass coffee table in the middle of our room, but had to take it away now that our son is crawling. We had been looking to replace it with a large leather ottoman. I showed her the sub that TEK created and she liked the idea :T

So...same room, same mains, but I now have a good 6-7+ ft^3 to work with and the sub would be centered in the room. I have no problem using a pro amp with fans. Now, what are the recommendations? The CSS SDX15 looks promising. Is 7 ft^3 enough for something like a RL-p18?

Yes, this is much more output that I was considering originally, but although I don't have much of a HT yet, if this thing has some wheels I could roll it into my HT room to use with movies. So high output capabilities would be put to use

[WillyD]

Is 7 ft^3 enough for something like a RL-p18?

It sure is. :T

Also enough for two SDXs.

[Finleyville]

I prefer metal tweets and I wanted the extended low end capabilities of the 7" woofer so I wouldn't necessarily need a sub (ha)

Me too. :T