Box Building Tools

[sprint_9]

Well as some of you know Im a newb, anyhow I want to start building up my tool inventory as time goes on and do it bit by bit not all one lump sum since Im just out of college with alot of otherthings on the table as well.

Anyhow I was just wondering what some of you recommend for tools? I just purchased a Craftsman combo kit 6 piece with a drill, circular saw, jig saw, sander, vacuum, and light. So I have all of those covered. Really kind of looking for some input on a router and circle jig the most and maybe some input on table saws, just what you guys are using and what you recommend that will be good and cost effective. Thanks for any help.

[PoorboyMike]

If I was in your situation, I would get a good saw guide for now, and wait until I had some extra cash for a nicer table saw.

What is your budget for a router? If you plan on using these tools for the rest of your life, spend a little extra now and get a good one. For around ~200, you can get a nice combo plunge/fixed base. Another $50 for the Jasper combo jig, ~20ish for a 1/4" spiral up-cut bit, and if there is any money left over, get as many bar clamps as you can afford.

[---k---]

a good medium size router, I like mine:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-KM12VC-Horsepower-Variable-Collets/dp/B0002ZZWX8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-4028170-7340845?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1187143617&sr=8-1

For the big bad boy router:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-M12V2-Horsepower-Variable-Collets/dp/B000GKC28W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-4028170-7340845?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1187143617&sr=8-2

Neither has dust collection, which is a downer. But for less than $150...

On a budget, you can always make a circle jig from scrap wood. Save your money for claps - lots of long pipe clamps. And bits from Holbren.com or mlcswoodworking.com

[Nathan P]

Got any pics of a circle jig made from scraps? I'm in a bit of a rush on a project and don't want to wait to order the jasper jig :T

[sprint_9]

Yea those both look like nice routers, pics of the homemade jig would rock, thanks guys.

[---k---]

Got any pics of a circle jig made from scraps? I'm in a bit of a rush on a project and don't want to wait to order the jasper jig :T

I don't. I have a jasper. CJD may be able to take one for you. but basically, you just take a 1/4" thick piece of mdf and cut it just like the jasper. then, drill the pin hole where you need it.

[Adam321]

Where is a good place to get bar clamps? And what size would you recommend?

Thanks.

[sprint_9]

Problem is I dont know how the jasper works, lol

[orbifold]

agree

Ditto absolutely on the suggestions offered.
Go here to see the Jasper. Look at the views, and remember the tricky part is to make sure the screws that attach your jig will always be as exact as possible. The real Jasper is set up with a centering doodad. If you carefully mark and senter punch these holes and drill them carefully, you can save $$. Then do tha math on the pin hole placement, and experiment on scrap stuff.

Dave

[orbifold]

also...

Clamps.
Not enough can be said. Spending on these will only be bad if you never do any kind of project again. Jorgensen and Besseys are the best. Bar and pipe clamps are prickly to use because of the screw handles which stick out and get in the way. I had to get a pair if Jorgensen 40" throats to glue that last pieces on my L&R's. It set me back $39US per each. You sure can get cheaper styles in the same maker. Look here, for instance. The 1/2" pipe, the steel bar clamp, and the CabinetMaster 90 degree series; very different in price and usage, all are good in squeeze. It just depends on what you can spend and how long you want to wait to get started. :T

Old guys--never short on opinions. Other's may vary.

[dlneubec]

As far as woodworking goes, speakers included, the most used tool in my shop is my table saw. IMO, it will make your speaker building efforts much less frustrating and save you loads of time. I would spend the majoirty of my budget here. It is an investment you will use for many many years.

For speaker building specifically, a router is also a pretty important tool if you want professional looking results. You can get by with a pretty basic plunge router since most of what you will do is cut holes and recesses with it.

[sprint_9]

Well my project will probably be a while off, just wanting to build up my tools before I buy the drivers. Probably going to try and keep my router in the 100 dollar range, might splurge and get the cheaper Hitachi as it looks pretty nice, otherwise probably a Skill or Black and Decker, both of those are cheap and have decent reviews. What brands of table saws do you guys have, Ive been looking at the Jet ones as they seem to look nice for around 400 dollars

[ThomasW]

Might want to use the forum's search function, we cover the 'what tools should I buy' topic frequently...

[cjd]

Table saw is sure nice, but absolutely not required for speaker building. A sawboard + circular saw, and a router with a flush-trim bit, will get you perfect boxes every time.

C

[jimluu]

Well my project will probably be a while off, just wanting to build up my tools before I buy the drivers. Probably going to try and keep my router in the 100 dollar range, might splurge and get the cheaper Hitachi as it looks pretty nice, otherwise probably a Skill or Black and Decker, both of those are cheap and have decent reviews. What brands of table saws do you guys have, Ive been looking at the Jet ones as they seem to look nice for around 400 dollars

Routers are real useful for cutting holes, flush trimming, rounding the edges and even do fancy designs on your box. I would definitely get a plunge combo with a 1/2" collet. At your price point, GMC has a good combo kit. Look it up on amazon. For a bit more (~190) you can get a Bosch kit, which is probably better. As for your table saw, first decide if you really need one, and how will you use it. If you have a large work area, get a larger one for larger work area. I find that table saws take so much space for the relatively few time that I use. I find that a circular saw is much more compact, works just as well, and is probably safer. That said, the Bosch 4000 is a great table saw.
If you are a total klutz like me, who could not make a real square or circle if my life depends on it....go to a local woodcraft and hire someone to make cuts for you. that can get expensive after a while.

One last option, and the one that I'm doing....build your own cnc router. Can be done for around $1500. Cuts perfectly every time, and can cut just about any 2D shape (2.5D actually) that you can dream of.

[sprint_9]

Poo, the Hitachi routers seem to have gone up in price, unless I read it wrong the first time over but now the one is up to 180.

[ThomasW]

Poo, the Hitachi routers seem to have gone up in price, unless I read it wrong the first time over but now the one is up to 180.

The price varies. If you're not in a hurry you should be able to get one for less by waiting for a price drop and looking for Amazon coupons/special deals.

[sprint_9]

Ic, and lucky for me Im not in a hurry.

[relder]

Got any pics of a circle jig made from scraps? I'm in a bit of a rush on a project and don't want to wait to order the jasper jig :T

Check out this thread: DIY circle jig thread
It has a picture of mine at the bottom (post #10) and the steps on how to use it in post #4

[sprint_9]

Sweet, thanks man, just skimmed over it quick but it looks like a great read for tonight after work.

[sprint_9]

Rather then start a new post Ill post my question here, as it deals with the router jig anyhow. How do you guys do the recess for the driver? Do you actually do that before you cut the hole out for the speaker? I assume this is how it works then you cut the center out, otherwise you wouldnt have a secure suface to cut the recess for the driver. Is that the correct method? Sorry for the newb question, but Im new to routers. Thanks.

[jimluu]

GMC 3 base router for $54 shipped. Not bad, and more than adequate for your needs.

http://www.amazon.com/GMC-ATBR1500-Router-Kit-Bases/dp/B000EOQVWS/ref=sr_1_10/102-7147348-3936134?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1187445101&sr=1-10

[J-Dub]

How do you guys do the recess for the driver? Do you actually do that before you cut the hole out for the speaker?

Yes, cut recess first then finish out the hole. Buy a rasp. they're cheap and always useful. when cutting the recess do not cut more than 1/4" deep at a time. same for any router cut. when you get to the end of your driver cutout and its about to dislodge you can do one of 2 things: If you are working on just the baffle, screw the inner circle to your workbench with 2 screws and clamp the baffle to the workspace. " I usually set up on two saw horses with a piece of 4'x4' 3/4" ply on top." This will allow a clean cut. If you are cutting the driver hole straight out of an already assembled enclosure do not finish the cut. Break the piece out and use your rasp to finish the job, otherwise you could end up with a nasty gouge in the baffle created by your router jumping around.

I have three homemade router jigs and have never used anything else. easy to do but hard to explain. if I get more time I'll post again with some details. Pattern bits can be your best friend for tweeters and midrange cutouts.

I have successfully got some very very straight lines with a router and a straight jig using clamps. they take forever though. With your router you can easily make cuts accurately within 1/64th of an inch. 1/128th if you want but that would be completely unnecessary.
I have also been successful with a circular saw and a straight jig but some circular saws aren't exactly precise. "the back of the blade cuts more than the front. Cheap saws will cut within 1/8th of an inch better ones within 1/16 or even 1/32nd if you're good with it.
If you plan on building a whole lot of stuff, a carpenters table saw is the way to go. It is very accurate right off the shelf, easy to calibrate and a worthwhile investment. they are very expensive though. If you are planning on "just getting started" use the circular saw and a straight jig for a while. It will teach you a lot! Try your router too, you'd be amazed at what you can do with it.

Speaking of routers, I have two at the shop, both Milwaukee, one smaller than the other. Niether one of them is a plunge router. They have a fixed base with an incremental dial to lower the bit. The big one is the biggest they make and it's a hauss! I use the small one most of the time. "easier to handle" These 2 routers have made over 40 full sized Texas hold'em tables, about 60 octagon poker tables, 4 subs with extravagant bracing and numerous other projects. Take care of them and they will take care of you.

CLAMPS! buy them, when your in the store and you see them buy more, then buy some more and more! Get the point! YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH!
Seriously, make sure to have several sizes, The Irwin quick grips are very handy for the smaller stuff and for clamping your jigs to your workspace. You should have a minimum of 8. Get several 36" 'ers at least 4 and make sure to have at least 4 pipe clamps at over 5'. this will get you started but get more if you can. OHHH! it is a must to have at least 8 three inch c clamps. I use them the most. lots of torque and also perfect for clamping your jigs. also important for laminating pieces of mdf together. Don't buy cheap spring loaded clamps. They are useless and a waste of your money no matter how cheap they are.
After that, a good tape measure, a T-square, and a carpenters square "triangle" and you'll be ready to go!

Be prepared though, buying tools is very, VERY addictive! Also after you have the essentials down don't neglect the old hand tools you saw your grandfather use when you were a kid. You will find some very useful purposes for these and they wont let you down. My buddy that I share my wood shop with is always super impressed when he is stumped on how to get something done and I come with a hand tool to the rescue!

Good luck and have lots of fun! Just remember to spare a little time for the significant other or else she'll put a stop to everything! :B

[Nathan P]

Hmm, when I cut out my port holes I went all the way around and didn't have a problem. I was afraid it would jump around and make it not round but somehow it didn't? Anyone else want to share how they do their circles?

[Sefferdog]

Hmm, when I cut out my port holes I went all the way around and didn't have a problem. I was afraid it would jump around and make it not round but somehow it didn't? Anyone else want to share how they do their circles?

Here are a couple of pics of my router with my DIY circle jig attached. It works wonderfully and is infinitely adjustable. I am about due to build a new one as this one has witnessed better days, but at roughly a buck in materials it is no matter. Here is a link to the plans for it, modify to suit your needs!

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=15808

I do the cut out for the speaker first, then I take a rabbetting bit and cut the recess for said driver. In order to insure a nice, clean fit my rabbeting bit has different bearings in 1/16" increments that I can change out to get the proper rabbet width as needed. If this is not close enough for me I can also adjust the width of the rabbet by putting a wrap or two of painters tape on the bearing of my router bit when I am cutting the baffles for a bit finer adjustment. The initial settings are all done on a scrap piece to insure exact fit. Then, when I do my actual baffle, I am not going to be cutting another baffle later in the project due to ill fitting drivers. HTH

[sprint_9]

Damn nice write ups J Dub and Sefferdog. J Im looking forward to seeing some info on your jigs when you get a chance. Thanks.

[sprint_9]

You guys think that a router with variable speed is needed, Sears has a decent looking router on sale thats fairly cheap, but it doesnt have variable speed which is the only downside to it.

[littlesaint]

Tht Hitachi M12V2 is on sale at Amazon through tonight: ~$150.00.

[jimluu]

You guys think that a router with variable speed is needed, Sears has a decent looking router on sale thats fairly cheap, but it doesnt have variable speed which is the only downside to it.

Generally larger bits requires slower speeds. The material that you route also require different speeds as well. I route MDF at rather high speeds, but if I do the same in hardwood or plywood, I could start a fire.

[JonP]

Yep, most smaller bits can be run at full speed, but as was said, materiels will vary.. you can compensate to a degree by feeding faster or slower, but it's nice to be able to adjust the motor speed.

Something big like a 3/4" roundover bit, (and you should eventually get and use one for box edges to cut down on edge diffraction) really shouldn't be run over 14-16000 RPM, check the reccomend by the manufacturer, and DON'T run over it... For just straight bit hole cutting, and box edge trimming.. you can get by with a starter, single speed router.

My method for hole cutting is, cut on down, 1/4" at a time... but set the final cut depth to about 1/32" from full thickness... just don't cut all the way thru. Then you don't get the jump when the center comes loose, which always results in a small or large divot in your circle.
Pull the router off, and give it a light punch from the other side, it cracks out nicely. All you need is a light brushing with sandpaper to clean off the rough edge, and a neat hole is done. Only trick is to get real close, but not too close. But it's good practice hitting a precise depth, which will serve you later in making accurate flush mounting rabbet cuts with your basic bit.

[---k---]

I wouldn't mess cheep router without speed control (you can buy an external, but then you've spent the same!). You're only saving a few bucks and getting a tool you'll throw away very quickly or hurt yourself with. I'm not a tool snob and have purchased several tools that I consider throw-aways. But, the difference in price between a decent router and a bad one is so small. I say just watch amazon and get wait for a good deal on the hitichi or something similar.

[littlesaint]

I wouldn't mess cheep router without speed control (you can buy an external, but then you've spent the same!). You're only saving a few bucks and getting a tool you'll throw away very quickly or hurt yourself with. I'm not a tool snob and have purchased several tools that I consider throw-aways. But, the difference in price between a decent router and a bad one is so small. I say just watch amazon and get wait for a good deal on the hitichi or something similar.

I picked up the Hitachi M12V2, a Hitachi jigsaw, and a B&D Workmate 425 last night from Amazon. ~$350.00 total and free shipping.

[sprint_9]

Cool, thanks for the replies, I figured on waiting out for a deal and now that I have solid input Ill do just that. Thanks again guys.

[J-Dub]

Damn nice write ups J Dub and Sefferdog. J Im looking forward to seeing some info on your jigs when you get a chance. Thanks.

My router jig looks almost identical to sefferdog's except that mine is about twice as long. This allows me to run it in a straight line across a rail to cut straight lines and also allows me to cut large 46" half circles for Texas hold'em tables. I have three router jigs in all. One for the big router and two for the small. Since my circles are almost always the same size, I just drill pilot holes where I need them and use a long screw with a non threaded top to anchor it to the workpiece. I have two jigs for the small router because I use it the most and I can set more pilot holes without them all getting too close together. A jig like mine or sefferdog's will easily get within 1/16th of an inch and with correct setup will get within 1/32 no problem.

As for the circular saw jig. it is very simple. Take a long piece of mdf about 6" wide and long enough to extend past your workpiece. MAKE SURE that the side you are using is as square as possible! This will be your straight edge guide. Use the sawhorse table mentioned above to work with jigs as it makes clamping very easy. My circular saw is exactly 1 1/2" from guide to blade. measure where you want to make your straight cut and add 1 1/2" to it. Take a speed square or t-square to draw a line. Now take a scrap piece of stock the same width of your workpiece and use it as a spacer to clamp your straight edge guide to one side of the table. then take the jig and line it up with the line that you drew for the cut. clamp the jig onto the table making sure that your workpiece is clamped along with it. you are ready to saw. try a test piece first drawing square lines across it to see how accurately your saw is calibrated. run the saw guide along your jig very carefully and you will have a nice cut.

cheers,

[wmilas]

I just wanted to recommend Rigid's big boy tri baseplate plunge router. Yes, I know its Rigid but I kept looking at this thing and eventually bought it over a Bosch. I'm impressed with it. Its soft start, variable speed. If mounted on a router table it can be hight adjusted from "above" (Ie below) by a quick key that pentetrates the plate. Really handy. If used upright its got a 'lil led light

Best part is the dust ports. No more chips flying everywhere. Finally sucks into my dust system.

I dunno. I'm fairly impressed with the thing. Its a bit pricey but not silly and compares favorably with the REALLY expensive routers.

[J-Dub]

Was reading through again and was impressed with the multiple ways people have come up with to cut driver holes. I have only made minor adjustments to the way I originally thought about and executed my first driver hole.
Sprint9, All of the ways mentioned here are fantastic ways to cut driver holes and you should use the one that best fits your style.
I just had to comment because I never really thought about a different way to cut them. I think its neat that people have developed there own ways.
Make sure of one thing though, do have a plan to eliminate the router jumping around and making a gouge in your workpiece. Its not worth the risk.
For now on If I am cutting holes in an already built box I am going to use a version of JonP's method. Cut down to about 1/32", use a small hand saw to finish out, then use some sand paper to clean up.
THANKS JONP! for sharing your method!

I LOVE DIY!!!