Science behind speaker cables??

[jquin]

Hi all
I was looking for some links that might point out some science to explain the exotic speaker cables on offer.
You know we have lovely platting of the wire now and the like.
Now I am not ask to be redirected to the manufacturer's technobabel explanation but rather university papers and the like.
The only thing I have seen in the past is some Uni tests indicating the gauge need for certain run lengths.
I'm not looking to start a war here....

OK I can't resist ( May be the platted wires are supposed to intimidate any Snakes that may be in the area) :rofl:

But seriously I am looking for something concrete to go on.

[fjhuerta]

I have never been able to find any scientific explanation that justifies the price of exotic cables.

I have never been able to hear any difference between any sort of cables whatsoever. I thought I did a couple of years ago, but blind testing proved otherwise. It was simply a placebo effect.

I gave away my esoteric cables. They were too thick, too ugly, and too obvious in my installation. I now use standard Audioquests (the blue ones, don't even know their names), and I'm happy - they are durable, resistant, and look nice. As for speaker cable, I bought some... I can't even remember the name, but my wife insisted they could be hidden pretty well out of view. She was right.

[JonMarsh]

well, you might simply compare inductance and resistance per foot, to start off with. The construction of many speaker cables is quite questionable, considering the price charged. I've been very pleased with Cardas Neutral Reference and Cardas Golden Reference. Fortunately for my engineering side, there are some pretty specific measurable advantages. And it's quite possible that the golden mean staggering of conductor sizes does distribute the wire "signature" so that it's less audible in impact on music reproduction, but that's getting more into the voodoo hoodoo sort of areas, which I don't care to go. I also use some homemade cables with Kimber 8TC, which has some similar electrical advantages, and similar sound, but not quite as focussed and wideband in my experience.

YMMV, of course; my purpose for being here at the forum isn't to advocate my favorite cables.

Cable Resonance is easy to measure

Golden Section Ratio's

Do measurements Matter? Speaker Designers Speak Out

The Reference Series

Speaker Cable Selection Guide

Cable Construction Guide

Golden Reference Speaker Cable

Neutral Reference Speaker Cable

These products are "engineered", and I mean that in every positive sense of the word.

I use Cardas Crosslink for internal wiring in my speaker projects.

And on related topics....

Listening Room Dimensions


Setting up speakers in a rectangular room




~Jon

[Chris7]

If your local university library has the JAES, check out this paper:

Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker, and Amplifier Interactions
JAES Volume 39 Number 6 pp. 461-468; June 1991

Abstract:
Loudspeaker cables are among the least understood yet mandatory components of an audio system. How cables work and interact with loudspeaker and amplifier is often based more on presumption and speculation than on fact. The literature on loudspeaker cable behavior and effects is minimal. Measurements were made with 12 cables covering a variety of geometries, gauges, and types. The measured data indicate distinct differences among the cables as frequency-dependent impedance, subtle response variations with loudspeakers, and rectance interactions between amplifier, cable, and loudspeaker. In some cases the effects of the amplifier overwhelm the cable's effects. Mathematical models that provide insight into the interaction mechanisms were constructed and compared to the measured data.

If you can't find it, let me know. I'd probably be willing to make a trip to get it off the shelf and scan it (my local university has the JAES but not a subscription to the electronic service).

[chrismercurio]

If you don't go in for cable voodoo, competent cables are offered by Belden, Canare, and Mogami. These companies are among the most respected cable companies in the world, and they publish the performance of their products.

I like Shunyata Research, Harmonic Technology, and Analysis Plus cables very much and also use Belden.

C

[Gir]

I'm using Belden 1694a cables for my interconnects and they're great. DIY speaker cables FTW

As for the DIY speaker cables, I believe the science behind those is that with the cable looping one way, any noise introduced will create a +V, and then when it loops the other way it creates a -V, thusly canceling the noise out. Obviously this is in an ideal condition, but works pretty well in practice. Correct me if I'm wrong

[jquin]

Cool
Thanks heaps guys. The one thing I appreciate about this forum is that there seems to be solid engineering logic behind design. That's not to say that the ear doesn't play a part in design & testing but IMHO if your ear can hear the difference there must be a scientific test somewhere that shows why.

Regards
John

[---k---]

I'm not a believe in cables yet. Maybe some day I'll get there. Here is Sigfried Linkwitz's take on cables:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion-faq.htm

Q10 - What cables and interconnects do you recommend?

A10 - I prefer not to recommend any specific product. Cables can have audible effects and some manufacturers make sure they will, either through unusual electrical parameters and/or by suggestion. Weaknesses in the design of the output-to-input interface are exploited. In any case, sounding different does not automatically mean that you now have a more accurate transfer from electrical to acoustical output.
Realize that for an active speaker, such as the ORION, each power amplifier merely sees a voice coil, either of the tweeter, midrange or woofer driver, and that is an easy load. With the lack of passive crossover filter components the speaker cable capacitance and inductance will have insignificant influence upon the voltage across the voice coil over its used frequency band.
My guideline for speaker cables is to keep their resistance to less than 0.1 ohm for the roundtrip path of the current. This defines the maximum length of a 2-conductor copper cable for different wire gauges.
Wire gauge Max. length in feet
18 8
16 12
14 20
12 30
8 80
(snip)

So, when choosing a coaxial audio interconnect look for good mechanical construction, direct contact between shield and connector, and well plated contact surfaces.
I find what is needed at Radio Shack. I solder speaker cables to terminal strips on the speaker end and use dual in-line banana plugs on the amplifier end.

I cut some out in the interest of space, so see the original.

[KJP]

Jon Risch has posted a lot of good cable info...

[JonMarsh]

Jon Risch has posted a lot of good cable info...

I've built some of the Jon Risch designs myself. Definitely a different tonal balance than zip cord. :W

[Audio-fiilis]

Always remember:

Keep the wires short.

Some theories the salesmen use come from RF -world.

The bottom line, if you wanted to use impedance matching, is to keep the distances short.

Honestly. The most significant feature of the speake cables is their reistance. If any of the other features meant anything, you would be in deep trouble. You see, the impedance of any speakes varies from minimum 6 ohms to at least 16, usually something up to 40, maybe even more ohms. The phase of that impedance may be whatever you choose.

If the inductive or capacitive compnents of the cable were significant indeed, the cable should be sold with one dedicated speaker.

Now there is a problem. The previously mentioned combination would not be sufficient, unless we knew and had previously in R&D of the speaker planned the output impedance of the amplifier. That has not been done.

A simple approach to the problem is to use a short, thick wire.

The complicated one is to learn RF, use a short and thick wire.

The lovely, esoteric, sexy one is to read the hottest magazines and to buy whatever appeals to you.

You choose.

Regards

me :twisted:

[Hdale85]

There are many speakers that go below 6ohms.

[Alaric]

Check with Doug (Lex) on cable construction. His CAT cables protrude pretty far into the "esoteric" , quality-wise , but his prices are in the affordable range. No easy task to combine the two.

[Lex]

IF this is to be a generic, please keep vendors free of this. Well, Cat is ok as my brand and the house brand of course. :-) We aren't favoritists, we just like em'. :-)

I give this thread a short reign, carry on.

[Wilk]

Are we talking about speaker wire, or coax cables. The important aspects of the 2 are as different from each other as the signals that are on them.

In fact the only thing that does stay the same between them is spend pick ones that has the least resistive conductors, and ends that you can afford. Then look at build quality. These 2 things will handle inductance, and capacitance issues for you usually. On a cable that is less than a meter the connection between the conductor, and the end connection can have more resistance, or capacitance to it than the whole rest of the cable.

Impedance matching is not a possiblity in speaker wire. The actual output impedance of a standard amplifier is under 100 milliohms. They are built to drive a 4-8 ohm load. If the output impedance of the amplifier was 8 ohms, it would have to share, and disipate the current equally with the speaker. This would also require 8 ohm speaker wire which would tend to be a little lossey. =)