Advice/Recommendations on drivers

[roaldd]

Hi All,

I am looking for some advice and recommendations on subwoofer drivers and enclosures. My experience with specific products is limited, but I have a fair amount of experience and knowledge with speakers in general.

The application is a college dorm room. Mostly music, but definatly some HT. I need something compact--a flat rectangle that can fit under the bed is an option. Quality over quantity is essential, but to a reasonable extent--I like it loud on occasion. $250 for the amp and sub is pushing it but acceptable. 25hz -3db at least--more is better--in room is very desireable.

In my searches on the internet, here are drivers I think would fit my application:

1-2 TANG BAND W8-1363SB 8" SUBWOOFER
1-2 DAYTON RS225S-8 8" REFERENCE SERIES SHIELDED WOOFER
1-2 HiVi M8N 8" Aluminum/Magnesium Woofer
1 DAYTON RSS265HO-4 10" HIGH OUTPUT SUBWOOFER

I know that many of you may have better ideas, so feel free and indulge me.

Thanks a million
Roald

[Paul H]

If you want a quality subwoofer capable of playing 25Hz at the kind of volumes that dorm rooms see, you'll need a 12" driver or larger. Anything smaller can't push enough air to create that bass without excessive distortion.

[PoorboyMike]

Compact, cheap, AND loud? :rofl:

Here is a neat project that would meet 2 of your needs, you just need to up the budget a little.

[ThomasW]

Get the 12" db500 from TC sounds

http://www.tcsounds.com/db500.htm

And one of the 240/250/300 watt plate amps from Parts Express

[PoorboyMike]

Get the 12" db500 from TC sounds

http://www.tcsounds.com/db500.htm

And one of the 240/250/300 watt plate amps from Parts Express

I wonder how much space he has under his bed? I know a 12" db500 wouldn't fit under mine. Even if it did, I don't think the dog would like it. :B

[joecarrow]

Serious suggestion here- loft the bed. I can hardly think of a single dorm room at my alma mater (RPI) that didn't have some sort of small temporary addition built by the residents.

If you loft the bed, even by 6 inches, you can fit a much larger sub under it, and possibly some other fun things like a tiny fridge, a locker, some storage space, or contraband. I completely second Thomas's suggestion, and add that if it won't fit under your bed you can MAKE it fit.

You can get the db500 for $109, and a 240 watt amp for $128. It's under budget, maybe slightly over when you count tax and shipping. In an appropriately sized ported box it will give you far better sound than most dorm rooms see- both in quantity and quality.

[ThomasW]

I wonder how much space he has under his bed? I know a 12" db500 wouldn't fit under mine.

He said that placement was an "option".

It's an option that seriously compromises performance.

[joecarrow]

Thomas, we're talking about a dorm room here! :P

Three years of my college career (in two different rooms) involved placing a desk under a bed- definitely not optimal desk placement. Another year involved a bed on a platform in front of a closet, with no clear path to the closet other than over or under the bed. College kids get packed in like sardines, and IMO it's more like car audio than home theater. Speaking of car audio, I'm just thankful he's not asking, "Hey, I've got this sweet subwoofer from my car- how do I plug it into the wall?", because lord knows we've seen that question come up on the forums enough.

If he can manage to get some kind of airspace around his main LR speakers, and have them laid out with some semblance of proper spacing within the room and on either side of the TV, then he's already better than 80% of the dorm systems I observed. A sub under the bed seems like a small compromise for what he gets.

However, I do admit that it's definitely a compromise.

[ThomasW]

Thomas, we're talking about a dorm room here! :P

At one time I too lived in a dorm..... :roll:

He could build something as simple as a 16" cube. Following Hsu's lead he could have an add-on exterior port when needed/wanted, and also run it sealed by covering the port opening on the enclosure.

[roaldd]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the responses. The boogieman is a really cool idea, but like Paul said, I don't know how low the 6.5s would get. But I checked out some price modifications and here is what I got:

Contents of Shopping Cart
Part Number In Stock Description Qty. Price Ext. Price Remove
260-774 Yes Penn-Elcom F1691 Rubber Cabinet Foot 1" .. $0.79 $4.74

264-832 Yes Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer .. $45.22 $180.88

300-750 Yes Bash 300W Digital Subwoofer Amplifier .. $149.87 $149.87

Subtotal: $335.49

Still over budget, but no doubt a cool project.

And you all are right when you say that the box is not limited to under the bed. I would definatly consider making a table out of it, which sounds like a much more reasonable option, considering that compact is the least of my worries.

How is the db500 quality wise? by the looks of the driver, the manufacturing seems solid. I also noticed that the Fs of the 12" was 24 Hz and on the 10" was 19Hz. Should I opt for the 10" for that reason? This sounds like a verying interesting and intriguing driver, especially for the money.

Sonotube?

Also, I have fair woodworking skills and would be capable of building most boxes.

In terms of placement of my other speakers, I was planning on wall mounting them up high and angled down a little. I don't know if that is ok, but I'm not going to ask. They will probably be about 8 ft. apart.

Thanks again.
Roald

[roaldd]

Are there any other 10"-12" subs to consider. Dayton? HiVi? Eminence? Tang Band?

[joecarrow]

The db500 actually looks like a really good bang for the buck. The Dayton Reference drivers will probably give you cleaner sound, but with less output and a higher price.

Eminence subs are generally for pro audio use, and although they might play extremely loudly, they won't play as low and will require large boxes.

Tang band, from all I've read, seem to be more specialized drivers for unusual box situations. If you've noticed, the Boogieman uses TB drivers. They also have a low-profile flat-cone neodymium subwoofer for applications with limited mounting depth. Tang band won't give you the best possible sound, and usually won't give you the best bang for the buck, but they're reasonably priced and will often let you put subs in places that you might not otherwise be able to put them.

I'd mostly consider HiVi if cosmetic considerations were of high importance. Although they sound good, you can do better for the money. I really like the look of their smooth concave cones, and if I wanted a speaker that would look really cool without a grill, I would give them strong consideration.

Another option is Mach5. http://www.mach5audio.com/

I can't vouch for them or their quality, but some folks here can. Their prices are very low, and although I don't think they are in the running for "best driver", I do think that they're probably worth the money. One of their midwoofers was tested for distortion by Zaph, and he had a positive impression of it. If the subs live up to that precedent, it could be a good way to save some cash.

[Dennis H]

$335.49

Yikes! I'd hate to see you spend that much money on a 6.5" sub. You'd need about 6 of those to equal a single 12" like Thomas recommended. TC Sounds makes some of the best subs in the world and are the OEM for many expensive "brand" names.

[joecarrow]

Yikes! I'd hate to see you spend that much money on a 6.5" sub. You'd need about 6 of those to equal a single 12" like Thomas recommended. TC Sounds makes some of the best subs in the world and are the OEM for many expensive "brand" names.

Do you really think the Boogieman is such a bad design, for what it is? Those 6.5"s are designed specifically as subs, and have greater than 10 mm of excursion; further- the design uses four of them and really has a decent amount of amp power. If you were restricted to a small box that needed to slide under other furniture, I don't think this is so bad. The Sd of the four drivers really is comparable to that of a 12".

On the other hand, I do have to admit that a true 12" sub will probably have lower distortion and better behavior when driven hard, and the db500 is half the cost of four of the TBs. I'm glad I don't have to make that choice.

[aprilia88]

I started a tang band tower using two 6.5"subs, two 4" bamboo and a neo 3. and I scraped the project after a few test x-overs. the 6.5 's are not a good sounding woofer. I have since tried a few different boxes with no satisfaction. there is just to much coloration. I have the m12 in a music only system because it runs out of steam pretty fast. Not a party speaker. just buy what thomas says to buy.

[joecarrow]

Thanks for the input from first hand experience- I've been searching for real feedback on the TB mini subs for a long time and couldn't really find any. I'll take a step back from recommending them or considering them for my own use.

[Dennis H]

Oops, my mistake. I didn't catch that the design uses 4 of the 6.5" drivers.

[roaldd]

Well it looks like the db500 12" is the best choice for me.

In terms of boxes:

Sonotube? I'm pretty sure I want a sealed enclosure. Since it will most likely not be under my bed, it will have to look good. On the inside of the box, are there any baffles etc. that would improve the sound quality? or are those only used for ported enclosures?

Thanks

[cobbpa]

Just for extra thought, check out the sub construction thread in the mission accomplished section. There are a lot of slick ideas there, including mine that I built for my dorm room. Sadly, noow the box & sub sit in a closet, unused, because the amp broke It was pretty good for listening to music and was acceptable for movies. I thought that 12" was plenty of output capability without really being overkill.

[ThomasW]

You can make either a sealed or ported tube sub.

The major downside to tube subs is that the tube itself is relatively fragile and subject to dents that can't be repaired.

In the long run you'd be better off lugging around a regular box sub. They're of course heavier but unlike tubes they can be built to take abuse.

[joecarrow]

I don't know if you'd call them baffles, exactly, but you'll want to make sure that the walls are good and stiff. Sonotube gives you a continuous cylindrical wall, which does a great job of preventing flexing. If you don't go for sonotube, then you can use plywood or MDF with braces- either ribs on the inside, cross-supports, or window braces. The window braces look the most like an internal baffle, but really they're just a good way of providing internal support to the box walls. They ideally wouldn't change the internal shape of the enclosed volume of air very much.

[roaldd]

I think that I will make a sealed enclosure and use that winisd program to figure out the dimensions. I might try and do something cool like a hexagon, but I will have to see how that models out. I will definately post my results.

One more question:

What about Linkwitz or whatever the low frequency compensation is. Is that a reasonable option?

Thanks again.

[joecarrow]

That's partly what I was talking about with the BFD. It's reasonable, but it increases the amplifier power required, the thermal requirements on the drivers, and doesn't give you any more SPL potential at any point in the frequency response than a plain sealed box.

[ThomasW]

LT circuits are nice, but using one eats up amplifer power and excursion. This design has neither of those in abundance....

[Dennis H]

An external equalizer is handy but you can get by without it for a while. A dorm room, if it's like the ones I lived in, is basically solid concrete and will provide a lot of boost on the low end so the LF response will actually be much better than the simulations predict. If you're buying a Bash amp, it has an EQ built in but it requires unsoldering and replacing a couple of resistors on the circuit board to adjust it. Try it with the stock resistors first and see how it sounds.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/300-750.pdf

[roaldd]

So, Bash 300w or Dayton 240w?

[Dennis H]

Either one would work fine. I'd probably get the Bash because of slightly more power and the adjustable bass boost. But it's 20 bucks more so the Dayton would be fine if the budget is tight.

[roaldd]

Just ordered the db500. Need to get the G.C. codes for amazon.com before I can order the amp though. Once the equipment gets to my house, I will start the build, take pictures, and post my results.

Thanks again for your expert advice and professional conduct.

Roald