Slightly Off Topic: Garage Shop Construction.

[wmilas]

Moved into a new house 2 years ago and have finally finished *Most* of the jobs that wife really wanted done. The deal we had was as long as I knocked those out I could then spend a huge chunk of time in the garage setting it up the way I wanted.

Its a 3 car garage, the 3rd bay has its own small door and is all mine I need to keep a push lawnmower, snowblower, and the kids bikes in there (Going to hang the bikes on the wall after I figure out the layout... can probably hang them on the wall of another bay.

The Wall side of the bay has a window smack dab in the middle of the wall.

I'm trying to figure out the optimal layout so I'm not shooting myself in the foot in year or two.

On the front wall of the other 2 bays there is a small staircase to the house. I was going to build 1 or 2 4 foot wide floor to ceiling storage units to keep the kids and normal garage junk.

I own a table saw on a dolly setup I can wheel around. (Btw I never knew what I was missing Pre-Dolly

I was thinking of putting a double tub on the short front wall in the third bay as there is no running water out there currently. The leaves the long wall for workbench plus lawnmower and snowblower storage. The lawnmower folds up pretty compact to keep out of the way as does the snowblower... I was thinking depending on the season I can have one hidden away under part of the bench and the other in a small bay ready to go.

That leaves bench design. This is where I need help. I currently don't have a compound miter saw. I use the table saw for what mitering I need to do. Do I want a bench with part of the sunk if/when I get a miter saw so I can feed across the rest of the bench and keep stock level with the cutting surface of the saw?

Do I want to integrate the table saw into the bench? I think not as Its easy to roll around and I can pull it out for large stock feeds. How wide should the bench be? How should the electrical be strung along/inside of it... what the optimum backing board for storing tools? What should I build the top out of? Laminate 2 3/4'ths ply together? put 2x4's on end and use those? Next door neighbor has a planar I could beg to use so it opens up more posibilities. I looked as his setup but hes a hardcore woodworker on small detail type stuff and his bench is kinda useless for what I'd be doing with mine... which is general stuff, speaker box building, small projects, ect.

I've never had a real bench before and I'd like to get as much info so I don't have to redo a ton of it.

Thanks for your time

[ThomasW]

I've hung a couple of my electrical lines and compressed air from the ceiling mounted retractable spools. These are extremely convenient.

A double tub is wonderful and highly recommended.... :T

When I used my garage as my wood shop I kept all the big power tools on individual roll-around carts.

You might think about getting one of the low buck home design/architecture software packages. I find these invaluable when working on any floorplan.

[David Meek]

You definitely want to sink the saw so that it's table is level with the work surface. You also will want to center the bay for the saw so that you have (hopefully) at least 8' of work surface on either side of the blade. That way you can accomodated a full-length sheet of ply, mdf, ocb or whatever on both sides of the saw. Also, if you don't have a radial arm saw then when you do buy the miter saw make sure it's a double-bevel (vertical angle adjustments to BOTH sides). And, if you have the budget, make it a 12" slider like the DeWalt DW718:



That may just be the last saw you'll ever need. :T It's my personal favorite.

It'll cut through a 4"x4", it'll make cuts through a 12" wide piece thanks to the slider, it's quiet (comparatively) and mine's been through a lot of heavy use in jobsite-conditions with nary a glitch. Highly recommended - but "she ain't cheap".

Best of luck on the shop set-up.

[MOState]

Moved into a new house 2 years ago and have finally finished *Most* of the jobs that wife really wanted done. The deal we had was as long as I knocked those out I could then spend a huge chunk of time in the garage setting it up the way I wanted.

Its a 3 car garage, the 3rd bay has its own small door and is all mine I need to keep a push lawnmower, snowblower, and the kids bikes in there (Going to hang the bikes on the wall after I figure out the layout... can probably hang them on the wall of another bay.

The Wall side of the bay has a window smack dab in the middle of the wall.

I'm trying to figure out the optimal layout so I'm not shooting myself in the foot in year or two.

On the front wall of the other 2 bays there is a small staircase to the house. I was going to build 1 or 2 4 foot wide floor to ceiling storage units to keep the kids and normal garage junk.

I own a table saw on a dolly setup I can wheel around. (Btw I never knew what I was missing Pre-Dolly

I was thinking of putting a double tub on the short front wall in the third bay as there is no running water out there currently. The leaves the long wall for workbench plus lawnmower and snowblower storage. The lawnmower folds up pretty compact to keep out of the way as does the snowblower... I was thinking depending on the season I can have one hidden away under part of the bench and the other in a small bay ready to go.

That leaves bench design. This is where I need help. I currently don't have a compound miter saw. I use the table saw for what mitering I need to do. Do I want a bench with part of the sunk if/when I get a miter saw so I can feed across the rest of the bench and keep stock level with the cutting surface of the saw?

Do I want to integrate the table saw into the bench? I think not as Its easy to roll around and I can pull it out for large stock feeds. How wide should the bench be? How should the electrical be strung along/inside of it... what the optimum backing board for storing tools? What should I build the top out of? Laminate 2 3/4'ths ply together? put 2x4's on end and use those? Next door neighbor has a planar I could beg to use so it opens up more posibilities. I looked as his setup but hes a hardcore woodworker on small detail type stuff and his bench is kinda useless for what I'd be doing with mine... which is general stuff, speaker box building, small projects, ect.

I've never had a real bench before and I'd like to get as much info so I don't have to redo a ton of it.

Thanks for your time

Bench Top:
1) 3/4" melamine veneered particle board - Comes in white or black, easy to clean, very smooth, won't scratch anything you are working on. Also, melamine veneer can be ordered from Lowe's if for any reason your countertop became damaged and you wanted a fresh surface

2) Regular Plywood - No explanation needed

3) Plywood + 1/8" hardboard(commonly referred to as masonite). The hardboard is kept instock by most Lowe's and Home Depots. Provides a semi-hard smooth surface. Its a darker color, so it won't show dirt(which some people care about) as well as the white melamine

Electrical:
If this is going to be a permanent work bench (my dad personally has a work bench on wheels), I would suggest adding a double-gang box on each end of the work bench, depending how long it is. This, of course, gives you permanent access to outlets without the need for extension cords. Since this is a garage, the wires need to be protected. I would suggest some sort of conduit or putting in it in the wall (if the garage is not already finished). If you have a large, imobile air compressor you can also take this time to put in some semi-permanent piping for your air compressor. Simple run PVC from the air compressor to where you believe you will need it. Of course, this is merely for the relief of long air hoses.

Tools:
Peg board is the most simple for hanging tools. Go to Lowe's or HD and buy some furring strips (little over a dollar apiece) and some peg board. The peg board comes with different finishes and different sized holes, also available in plastic. Also take this time to look at the tool hangers that go in the peg board. This is all found in the Millwork department.

As far the table saw goes. I would not recommend building it into the workbench unless you have a very large work area. If you don't have the room to maneuver a full sheet of plywood and successfully cut it, don't build it into the workbench

[dlneubec]

I was thinking of putting a double tub on the short front wall in the third bay as there is no running water out there currently. The leaves the long wall for workbench plus lawnmower and snowblower storage. The lawnmower folds up pretty compact to keep out of the way as does the snowblower... I was thinking depending on the season I can have one hidden away under part of the bench and the other in a small bay ready to go.

The key thing here, IMHO, is to make sure you keep things flexible. You never know what project is going to come along, what new tool you might add in the future, etc. and that means you need flexibility to adapt. Definitely build the bench high enough to store equipment under. That could also mean possibly making it high enough so you could wheel your table saw under it. For example, say you decide you want to add an upright sander or floor standing drill press in the future, things that are upright and can't fit under the bench. Then that flexibility will come in handy.

BTW, on another note, you might want to consider hanging the kids bikes from the ceiling with some large hooks. You might wish you had that wall space one day sooner than you think. :W

That leaves bench design. This is where I need help. I currently don't have a compound miter saw. I use the table saw for what mitering I need to do. Do I want a bench with part of the sunk if/when I get a miter saw so I can feed across the rest of the bench and keep stock level with the cutting surface of the saw?

Build a rectangular frame out of 2x4's and screw or bolt the top to it, I agree with the melamine covered mdf for the reasons stated, however, you might want to have a sub layer of another material that you can screw or bolt the melamine piece to. That way, when it gets worn out, stained, looking bad for whatever reason, you can simply pull the bolts/screws and put a new one on. I would use lag bolts and bolt the bench to the wall tp a few studs. figure the length so that the ends overlap studs and bolt there and maybe once in the middle (depending on how long you make it. That will make it rigid. I wold make the legs (also out of 2x4's) so that they are at a 45º angle from the front corner of the 2x4 frame for the top, back to the wall. Bolt the legs to the top frame. Put a 2x4 horizontally at the base of the wall, lag bolted to the studs, set the bottom of the legs on the top of that 2x4 and screw them onto it. That way, you don't have legs out in the way of useable floorspace. It is easier to get things under and out from under, but it is still a very solid bench and inexpensive to build (only 2 legs needed). If you use all lag bolts and/or screws, it remains flexible to take apart and move if you want to in the future.

I would not sink the miter saw into the bench. It removes the flexibility you might want in the future. I don't see a lot of use for an extended support area for a miter saw. It can handle only limted width material and you can usually hold anything you might want to cut with one hand. If it is material that is larger and needs more support, you should probably be using the table saw anyway. Just my opinion. My table saw get's a lot more use than my miter saw ever will.

Here is what I would do with a miter saw, or any other benchtop type of tool like that. Cut out a small plywood base plate for each tool so it can be screwed or bolted down to the base plate. Now screw and glue a center cleat or runner piece under the length of the base plate. This piece shuold be a couple inches wide or so. Get yourself a Crafstman or similar Workmate portable table that has the large jaws on the top so that the surface can be cranked open. These often have the ability to adjust height also. The cleat on the underside of the base plate of each tool can be clamped into that workmate. Now you have a table that is portable, can be used for any number of things, including holding all these other tools. You can store those tools under you bench, hanging on the wall, etc. when they are not in use and the Workmate table folds up and can be hung on the wall also. This gives you the ultimate flexibility to adapt to whatever project comes you way.

Do I want to integrate the table saw into the bench? I think not as Its easy to roll around and I can pull it out for large stock feeds. How wide should the bench be? How should the electrical be strung along/inside of it... what the optimum backing board for storing tools? What should I build the top out of? Laminate 2 3/4'ths ply together? put 2x4's on end and use those? Next door neighbor has a planar I could beg to use so it opens up more posibilities. I looked as his setup but hes a hardcore woodworker on small detail type stuff and his bench is kinda useless for what I'd be doing with mine... which is general stuff, speaker box building, small projects, ect.

My build ideas are above. Personally, I would not integrate anything into the bench. You might want to bolt a vise on top of it at one end to hold things. I wold probably screw a couple of 8 plug outlets (one pluging into the other) on the bottom front 2x4 frame at each end of the bench and staple the cords along the inside back of that 2x4. Then run and extension cord from the nearest plug to power them. That way if you move the bench, they come along with it and all you have to do is run the extension cord to the new location.

Good luck, and remember, flexibility is the key, IMO! :T

[wmilas]

BTW, on another note, you might want to consider hanging the kids bikes from the ceiling with some large hooks. You might wish you had that wall space one day sooner than you think. :W

Well the problem here is that my house is built into a hill with the garage being the downhill part. This means that my garage has 13 ft ceilings. This is good as far as having a ton of storage space on the walls. this is Bad for ganging stuff from the ceilings

[wmilas]

Dan,

I REALLY like the idea of the 45º supports going back to the wall. What I was planning on doing was only using 2x4's for the front legs and running a support half way down the wall and one at the bench top level (both horizontally) to support the top of the bench and to support a smaller inset shelf under the top of the bench that ran perhaps half the length of the bench for more storage space. Not using back legs also helps to level the top of the bench... the floor slants downwards towards the overhead doors to drain water, plus its not exactly level the other way also.

On the side where I needed the large storage opening I could instead use the 45 degree trick and save a bit more space. I like it!

Was thinking of putting a pair of cabinets above the bench on either side of the window, and using the peg board as mentioned as tool holders. Was going to run some cheapo undercabinet lights. Kind of undecided weather to put a row of outlets above the workbench top along the peg board, or under the top along the face or just under an indented face. I'm not sure if having all the cords piled ontop of the bench is better than having them hung over the bench? Probably ontop?

Was going to put a vise on one end and a bench grinder on the other end.

If I went with the white mdf trying to figure out how I can attach it so I can flip it when the top gets nasty. Maybe run lip along the inside of the frame so that it sets down into the frame so it aligns with the frames top? Bolt it down in a few places so it doesn/t move around to this lip.

The garage walls are finished. I was planning on using wood screws to attach to the studs... should I use some other types of bolts instead? and if so how?

Also is a 4 ft deep bench deep enough? If not how deep?

[MOState]

If I went with the white mdf trying to figure out how I can attach it so I can flip it when the top gets nasty. Maybe run lip along the inside of the frame so that it sets down into the frame so it aligns with the frames top? Bolt it down in a few places so it doesn/t move around to this lip.

The garage walls are finished. I was planning on using wood screws to attach to the studs... should I use some other types of bolts instead? and if so how?

Also is a 4 ft deep bench deep enough? If not how deep?

Yes, a 3/4" rabbet on the inside of the "rim" would be a good choice. Another good choice would be to simply drill a hole and countersink it so that when you screw it down the screws don't protrude.

For the walls...use 3" (or slightly longer) screws. Bolts and lag screws will be no good.

4' will be plenty deep. Depending how tall you are and how long your arms are, 4' may be too deep. Anywhere from 3 to 4' should EASILY give you enough countertop space if you keep it clear.

[dlneubec]

Dan,

I REALLY like the idea of the 45º supports going back to the wall. What I was planning on doing was only using 2x4's for the front legs and running a support half way down the wall and one at the bench top level (both horizontally) to support the top of the bench and to support a smaller inset shelf under the top of the bench that ran perhaps half the length of the bench for more storage space. Not using back legs also helps to level the top of the bench... the floor slants downwards towards the overhead doors to drain water, plus its not exactly level the other way also.

On the side where I needed the large storage opening I could instead use the 45 degree trick and save a bit more space. I like it!

The bench top need support for its depth and its length. If you don't have supports that go perpendicular to the wall, from the front of the bench to the back, the plywood, mdf or whatever, will sag in between. It can't span over 24" without being a problem at some point, if you put any kind fo weight on it. If I had a bench that was 6' long for example, I would have a rectangular from for it, with another support piece across the middle. If the bench went to 8', I'd probably have two intermediate supports. 2x4's are cheap, no sense in shortcutting on the strucure to the point where it is not structurally sound. I can stand on mine, no problem. You might want to be able to do that, since storage above those cabinets up to that 13' ceiling would be a definite plus.

Was thinking of putting a pair of cabinets above the bench on either side of the window, and using the peg board as mentioned as tool holders. Was going to run some cheapo undercabinet lights. Kind of undecided weather to put a row of outlets above the workbench top along the peg board, or under the top along the face or just under an indented face. I'm not sure if having all the cords piled ontop of the bench is better than having them hung over the bench? Probably ontop?

It depends on how you will be using your tools. If you think you will do everything sitting on the bench, then the outlets at the back are good. Me, I like to have several portable saw horses and a piece of 3/4" plywood so that I can quckly make a work table out in the open space that I can move all the way around for bigger projects. I end up with the tools I use sitting out on the bench top handy, maybe a set or plans I'm refering to, etc. while the project is often on the temporary table. You need lots of "throw-off" space. In this case, the tools are often plugged in at the front of the bench and reach the temporary table, so having the oulets at the front are handier. Think about how you would do projects.

If I went with the white mdf trying to figure out how I can attach it so I can flip it when the top gets nasty. Maybe run lip along the inside of the frame so that it sets down into the frame so it aligns with the frames top? Bolt it down in a few places so it doesn/t move around to this lip.

The main problem that I see with this is that you are creating a trap for dirt, dust, etc. along the edge of that top. Personally, that would drive me crazy not to be able to simply brush stuff off the top without worry about it getting in crevices, etc. Have you ever seen a table designed with a lip like that around the outside? There's a reason for that. :B

The garage walls are finished. I was planning on using wood screws to attach to the studs... should I use some other types of bolts instead? and if so how?

Also is a 4 ft deep bench deep enough? If not how deep?

This is just my opinion, FWIW, but I would never use long screws to hold a bench up. First, long screws are very hard to get in to start with. Wood hardens and gets brittle with age and that can make them even harder to get back out in 10 years. If you use lag bolts, which are simply large screws with bolt heads and deeper, coarser threads, you can use a ratchet to put them in and take them out. It is much easier and much stronger than screws. I would stand on a bench with four 3/8" lag bolts holding it to the studs in the wall and not worry. I can't say that about double the number of screws. Also, you have 1.5" of 2x4, 1/2" of drywall, and if you want them to bite at least 1.5" into the stud in the wall, you would need 3.5" lag bolts or screws, IMO.

How deep depends on how you use it. I value the floor space, so I keep my benches more like 30" deep and do smaller project on them that fit. Anything larger, I use the floor space next to it and set up a temporary table as mentioned above. It is hard on the back to reach and lift over too long a distance and for big projects, it is really nice to be able to get all the way around the work surface. YMMV.

[Martyn]

You can't do much without some kind of bench, but its design depends on the kind of work you're going to do. Is this going to be for light home-handyman stuff, servicing the lawnmower, or for serious woodworking? You can go a long way on an old solid-core door thrown across a couple of sawing horses, or you can build a bench that will last you a lifetime. I based my current bench around a laminated maple top that I bought from an industrial supply house. It's 2' x 6' x about 2" thick. I fitted 2" x 6" maple aprons around three sides and added a woodworker's vice. It's supported by a pair of end frames held together by stretchers that are bolted to it (so that they can be tightened as the wood shrinks). The whole thing is very sturdy but can be moved on a smooth floor without too much difficulty.

How you store your tools depends on what you have and how you use them. For me there's no substitute for a chest of shallow drawers (on wheels if you like). I designed my bench to take a cabinet under it supported by the lower stretchers, although I haven't got around to building it yet.

Try "Making Workbenches" by Sam Allen. This book includes some basic designs that you can either simply follow or adapt, as well as lots of useful ideas for tools and accessories.

A folding frame from HD or a tool store might be best for a mitre saw.

[PMazz]

Sorry if I'm repeating others but....

If space is at a premium, keep everything as modular as you can. Smaller bench tools can be mounted to pieces of plywood and clamped to a table or bench then hung on a wall thru a hole in the base. Saw horses and thicker sheets of flake or whatever make for excellent work surfaces and can be knocked down easily. Design whatever you build around larger tools that have to remain on the floor or in a fixed location. Permanent workbenches tend to be junk collectors and it'll take you just as long to clean off as to set up the knockdown variety.

Pete

[ThomasW]

If there's a Rockler or similar store near you, they have issues of magazines like ShopNotes, Wood, etc. Throughout the years all the major woodworking magazines have done issues focusing on shop design, space saving ideas, modular shops, etc. It would be well worth your time to research back issues to see what these recommend.

[wmilas]

Well a few things I've figured out so far:

1) I'm going to build the bench a bit smaller than I thought I would. It will only be about 24 inches deep and not nearly as long as I had planned. In place of this I'll have more storage and a mobile pull out "wing" that I can set up on the side or around back of me. I think this will give me more flexability.

2) I've pretty much decided to go with a laminate top which will have no lip, and bolt down via recessed bolts (counter sunk screws?). This should keep the sawdust buildup to a minimum. Plus if it sucks I can always replace it with a hardwood top or something else.

3) I'm not going to recess the area for a miter saw. I don't think I want to sacrifice that much table top space... considering I don't even HAVE one and use my table saw for most things... although admittedly I'll buy one soon.

Question: How high should to top be? I'm 6'2". I was thinking the hight should be where if I stand up and point my arms down and splay my hands out flat, the flats of my hands should just reach the top... does this make sense? Any lower and I think bending over would be bad, any higher would just be too high... Or is this too high?

[ThomasW]

Look at kitchen counter top height as a reference. My main basement workbench is kitchen counter height, but I have several higher and lower platforms on casters for other sized projects.

For the garage I have different height saw-horses depending on the size of what's being worked on.

I don't mess with formica tops, I use tempered Masonite. It's only held in place with counter sunk screws. When it gets too beat up just throw it away and buy a new piece

[wmilas]

Masonite aka that hardboard brownish type stuff with the cross hatch pattern on one side?

How thick? I thought that stuff only came in like 1/4" thick sheets?

[ThomasW]

It comes in 1/8th and 1/4th inch sheets. I use the 1/4th inch.

[Martyn]

I'd say that 36" is the minimum height for you - you could go an inch or so higher. Try it and see - you can always trim the legs or add shims as necessary.

[WLF1]

I bought some Ikea kitchen cabinets and used them for the base of my workbench, which is 12 ft long. These cabinets are pretty cheap, and you can get them with 4 drawers which is great for storage. Drawer hardware is Blum, with metal drawers, and it works great. I used 18-inch wide cabinets by 24-inch deep, but you can also get them in 15-inch and 21-inch width to fit what you need. I used 1-1/2" plywood for the top. Ikea has 1-1/2" wood counter tops that I would use instead of plywood if you don't mind spending a little more money. Their beech top appears to be the best quality, but they also have oak and birch tops. Cabinets were set on a pressure treated base anchored to the floor.

I am presently doing the same thing (5 ft long) for a lathe I am getting. You can't have enough drawers for storage!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dennis H]

I'm with Pete....

Saw horses and thicker sheets of flake or whatever make for excellent work surfaces and can be knocked down easily.

Use saw horses the right height so the work bench can act as a catch table for the table saw.