Watch out for hearing loss!

[joecarrow]

I just got back from a free hearing screening, and they confirmed what my girlfriend has been telling me. My hearing is less than great!

The way the audiologist explained it, 0db is taken as the average of what healthy ears should hear. Based on today's tests, my hearing is 10db below average, with up to 15 db below average around 4.5 khz. The cutoff for clinical hearing loss is 20db.

Guys, I played drums in high school and college. I practiced with the marching drums indoors and didn't always wear hearing protection. My ears would ring and things would sound different for a while after practice. It wasn't that bad, not like I was practicing on the firing range or anything, but now I can't help but wonder if I ruined my ears a bit by not wearing earplugs more of the time!

I'm only 25, and that hearing is never coming back. Protect your ears! Be conscious of what "loud" is, and learn to recognize the signs of exposure to high SPL. Be careful with your monster speakers and gigantic amplifiers! Don't ride in cars with those DB drag racing fanatics. Wear hearing protection at the firing range. Be careful!

On a final, more positive note- don't kill yourself over past discretions. I'm going to look into a training class that will help my brain better process speech with what I have, as per the audiologist's recommendations. Also, he showed me a modern hearing aid that was extremely small, and was supposed to be good enough that he (the audiologist) and other people occasionally wear them to correct the frequency response of their otherwise fairly good ears. He told me that he has ears that are at 0db across the range except for a 15 db notch at 4.5 khz. He said he sometimes wears a hearing aid when he wants to correct for that.

Anyway, I guess I just need to preserve my ears for another 25 or 30 years until cochlear implants advance beyond natural hearing.

[Bent]

I have my hearing tested at least once per year, yhey do a series of tone sweeps that I'm to acknowledge upon recognition. For some reason the audiologist uses 5dB increments rather than 3dB as I'd expect. I have 0dB (zero) loss across the test range on either ear. Strangely enough my wife thinks I'm deaf too.

[WillyD]

Strangely enough my wife thinks I'm deaf too.

Selective hearing.

[joecarrow]

I really wanted to hear that my problem was not paying attention. I'm kind of upset about this right now.

I think that the reason why they do 5 db increments is because (I think I read this) 10 db is a perceived doubling of loudness.

[Chris7]

The one positive about this, if any can be pulled out, is that you almost certainly can't hear metal dome tweeter resonances. Makes speaker building easier. Up until about age 25 or so I could hear tweeter resonances around 20kHz. Drove me nuts. That's gone now for me too.

[joecarrow]

That's the funny thing- my hearing didn't seem to drop off with frequency! He only tested out to 8 khz so I don't know for sure. It was one of those free tests they give out, and they're free because if you have hearing loss they hope that you'll buy from them.

I have a Seas H1212 tweeter, and I really can't figure out if I can hear the resonance or not. Harsh cymbal-type sounds sound harsh to me, but I can't tell if it's because of a resonance or just because the speaker is doing a good job of reproducing a harsh sound!

The main thing is that now I'm worried. I'm 10 db down... another 10 db and I officially count as hearing impaired. Should I calm down about all this?

[Martyn]

Don't worry, be happy...

Yes, Joe, you should calm down and here's why (and there's nothing you can do about it anyway)...

Two or three years ago I woke up one morning to find myself stone deaf in one ear. It turned out to be the result of a viral infection and my hearing returned to "normal" after two or three days, but it was very scary at the time especially because I started to wonder what I'd do if the other ear were to shut down too.

Anyway, I went to see a specialist who did the frequency sweep. In short, I have congenital hearing loss across the test range of 250 Hz to 8 kHz; the loss varies from 10 to 50 dB down! So I've been like this since birth without realising it (I'm now in my fifties). It's hard to believe that the loss is that bad and that I'm a hearing-aid candidate! I sometimes think that the brain manages to compensate to some extent.

Does this bother me? Well, sometimes I wonder what I'm missing and maybe one day I'll try a hearing aid or do some personal EQing to find out, but it certainly doesn't stop me from enjoying music and spending more than I really should on equpiment. In fact, I'm more passionate about music than most of my friends and colleagues (maybe no-one's tried a 50 dB BBC dip!).

Since your dip is around 4.5 kHz, it could well be the result of hearing damage from over-exposure to loud noise, but it's less than 15dB which, in my world at least, doesn't seem like much of a problem at all! Bear in mind also that the test isn't very precise, so that 15dB could be closer to 10 (and, as you said, they might be hoping to sell you a hearing aid).

So cheer up, Joe. Your audiophile years are not over yet - just moderate the volume control in future.

[DS-21]

Something every audiophile needs: http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

And wear them when you're doing annoying loud tasks (e.g. vacuuming, mowing the lawn), too.

[BobEllis]

My hearing is similar to Martin's in one ear, the other pretty much normal. I concur, that it doesn't diminish my enjoyment of music and I am also more fanatical about sound quality than most everyone I know.

Another note, your "loss" could easily be due to the environment - if you were just sitting on a chair, external noise could easily mask the lowest levels. Even a "soundproof" booth isn't a cure all if the outside is noisy. I also found that the headset was too small for my melon and if I didn't move the transducer it didn't line up with my ear canal and I "showed" a high frequency loss.

DS- those 20 dB plugs are great for loud concerts, but I'd go for the standard cheap foam jobs that attenuate ~29 dB when doing loud chores. I wore plugs and muffs (with extra foam that I added) when I worked the flight deck on an aircraft carrier. After 10 years of hanging around jets so loud it hurt my ears to open my mouth, my hearing measures the same as when I was commissioned. The Navy only measured to 5Khz, though.

[jquin]

I invested in the best hearing protection I could find.
Initially for the shooting range but they get more use for the power tools.
It would be ironic to lose your hearing while making audiophile quality speakers.

In my speaker tests I found it hard to directly detect anything over 15kHz.
It does make you wonder however if we are paying extra for special drivers and crossover components if cant hear the difference to save ourselves.

Maybe we should have a test for our hearing that gives you a grade in terms of how much you should spend on the speaker.
You could be graded as
1) Electrolytic/iron core/vifa
2) Polypropylene/air core/scan speak
3) Audiocap/North Creek/Accuton


Think of the money we could all save. :rofl:

[BobEllis]

Sometimes I wish I was a category one listener an could stomach B@$e stuff. I wouldn't sweat the equipment end and could pay more attention to the music/movie

I don't hear anything over 15KHz, either. But I can sense when 20KHz is there or not -an odd sense of pressure in my ears without actually hearing a tone. Of course my son needed to wear earplugs when I did this, the 20KHz drove him nuts.

[electroman187]

Accurate hearing tests can be really hard to take and administer. They are usually best taken early in the morning when your hearing is most sensitive and you haven't been exposed to any moderate/loud noises yet. Also, I've found that the method of taking the test can have a big impact on the results. I try hold my breath when I anticipate a tone. Otherwise I can't hear it if I'm inhaling or exhaling regardless if it's through my mouth or nose. I usually forget to hold my breath for about half the tones of the first ear so those results suffer a bit.

[Kal Rubinson]

Accurate hearing tests can be really hard to take and administer. They are usually best taken early in the morning when your hearing is most sensitive and you haven't been exposed to any moderate/loud noises yet. Also, I've found that the method of taking the test can have a big impact on the results. I try hold my breath when I anticipate a tone.

That's strange since that should pressurize the middle ear and change the impedance transform of the ossicles.

Otherwise I can't hear it if I'm inhaling or exhaling regardless if it's through my mouth or nose. I usually forget to hold my breath for about half the tones of the first ear so those results suffer a bit.

That's why the tests should be done more than once and the frequencies randomized. Any sort of anticipation influences the outcome.

Kal

[Alaric]

I've found I can't always tell how loud the music is if it isn't distorted. Turns out we tend to use frying voice coils in drivers to tell our brains "loud". Clean music can go very loud before we realize the curtains are moving and the cat left home. If you have to shout to hear your own voice it's probably too loud!

[Undefinition]

Our biggest fear

Lee has a great point! Very often we don't notice "loud" until the equipment is failing.

Back to the very first post... I also used to play in a marching drumline--and coached one a few summers ago. And yes, those super-cranked snares are dangerously loud. How dangerous are they outdoors? Not very, in my experience. However, standing in a parking lot for 8 hours, rat-tat-tatting away (as some drumlines and drum corps do all summer) fatigues my ears. Now, playing those things INSIDE is what's really dangerous. I've heard many a drumline instructor yell at kids for doing rimshots and gaks in hallways: "Only an idiot would do that sort of thing indoors!"

Anyway, did the marching drums cause your hearing loss? Highly unlikely. I mean, what about all the other guys in the drumline? I'm not a doctor, but I think it's more likely that you're just sort of predisposed to hearing loss moreso than others. Ergo: some people are more prone to hair loss or osteoporosis as they get older.

If high school drumline (outdoors) was the only really loud activity you've participated in, then it doesn't seem like enough. Practicing with rock bands in basements and garages, however, is mind-numbingly loud. I regret going through a few of those rehearsals with no protection. It's not that I was trying to "be tough" or anything, I just rarely had earplugs on hand. Oh what an idiot I was.

On a serious note, I am very sorry that this has happened to you. Just reading about it sort of sobered me up and made me wince. I know that, in the end, things will be okay. But right now, it's sort of a shock.

-Paul

[joecarrow]

I did four seasons of winter drumline, which was marching indoors on stage and in gymnasiums. I also practiced my drumset indoors and practiced with amplified guitars that were loud enough to keep up- but I'd say I logged far fewer hours with that than with the drumline.

I guess I shouldn't feel too bad about it- my hearing still has a fairly flat frequency response, without any really extreme gaps or loss of high frequency below 8 khz. I seriously haven't noticed any loss, it's been so slow. It's just that my girlfriend has been mentioning it for the last two years and I finally got it tested.

It was a shock to hear it, but I have to remember that things sound the same today as they did last month. It's just a little harder to hear quiet sounds for me than it is for people around me. I'll have to get in touch with some of my old friends, and see how their hearing held up.

[Bent]

I guess I should have added (after my "my hearing is so superior" diatribe), that my hearing also falls very rapidly at 15kHz too.
I asked an audiologist yesterday about the 10 dB dips, he indicated that any dips of that magnitude are typical. Although they indicate some evidence of hearing loss, you share the characteristic with most of his patients.

[digital desire]

tinnitus!

Funny how this topic is so timely in regards to my hearing problems.

I have tinnitus, and it is driving me NUTS!
It manifests itself as a 500hz tone, and is CONSTANT. Sometimes you feel like sticking an icepick in your ear. I also suffer from hearing loss, a direct result of a steady diet of Rock and roll for years, and flying turbo props for decades. I always wear headsets (active noise control in them for the last 8 years) but the damage has already been done. When I was in my early 20's, I flew Beach 18's, (Big 'Ol radial engines, and prop tips/ exhaust right outside your window) that were crazy loud. I used foam in my ears, and headsets, and still it was noisy.

The worst experience was sitting in the middle of the floor seats when the Rolling Stones came to town in the late 80's. My ears were ringing for days. I am quite positive that I lost some on that one.

What gets me is when you are sitting at a light, and have the radio on, and three cars back someone has a "thumper" car stereo going. Windows closed.
You know these people are going to have NO hearing in there 50's.
It is all fun and games when you are young, and a major PITA when you get older. And it happens fast. One day it's all good, and the next you realize how much you are missing, and quiet rooms are not so quiet any more, because your ears are making an unstoppable noise.

/Rant off. 44 years old and starting to feel it.

[Shonver]

I need to check out my hearing. I have two boys aged 2 and 4, respectively. On occasion when they scream at the top of their voices (very loud), it causes an eardrum (I assume) to vibrate and produce a non-correlated sound of its own, very much like a speaker with a damaged cone. I also seem to find it irritating to continue a conversation in a noisy environment (such as at the side of the road in peak hour traffic).

Now I wonder if anyone knows: can a hearing aid restore hearing to high fidelity levels?

[Amphiprion]

My Dad has bad hearing loss but won't really admit it. He drove tractors on the farm growing up a lot, and was in the military (drove tanks).

I myself suffer tinnitus as a result of TMJ and bruxism, but every ENT I've been to has told me I have fantastic hearing. One told me I had the best hearing he'd seen in a 20yr old male. But there's this little whine over top of everything. Suffered from a bit of depression for a while over it, and it still gets me down occasionally, but I'm dealing with it a lot better these days.

[Kal Rubinson]

Now I wonder if anyone knows: can a hearing aid restore hearing to high fidelity levels?

Not in my experience (with others). most effort goes into the speech-critical frequencies. A close friend and music lover has a very fancy set which is "supposed" to be full-range, low distortion but he chooses rarely to wear them. That tells me a lot.

Kal

[cjd]

Tinnitus from TMJ can be significantly reduced with massage and other relaxation techniques (yoga being one).

Stress always makes it worse.

This American Life did a show on stuff like this once, it was interesting. There was a father/daughter, one had really bad ringing, and the other had total hearing loss at those exact frequencies...

C

[JonP]

Tinnitus from TMJ can be significantly reduced with massage and other relaxation techniques (yoga being one).

Stress always makes it worse.

This American Life did a show on stuff like this once, it was interesting. There was a father/daughter, one had really bad ringing, and the other had total hearing loss at those exact frequencies...

C

I've been a bit concerned with my own hearing... been to many LOUD concert situations in the past.. Thought I'd express some concern and try to get officially tested. One thing I've noticed, you don't often get a test that goes much above 8-10Khz, and not with many measurement points. So, it's hard to look closely at your hearing with the basic tests. And, the time of day, what kind of enviroment (I've had just headphones in the Dr's office, and a full sounproof booth, YMMV) etc, makes a difference. I think one might do better trying to map oneself with a signal generator with a calibrated volume control and a pair of decently flat headphones, tuning for subjective same volume. Currently, I'm rolling off pretty fast about 16-16.5Khz...

I also have a bit of tinnitus, and it varies widely on how noticeable it is. Ambient noise level masks it, and definately how stressed or tired I am is a big influence on how loud it seems. I always seemed to have much better hearing than most others when I was young, could pick out sounds that others didnt notice, etc... maybe I was better at picking things out of a lot of background noise, rather than just hearing things so much better? Reason I bring that up, is that even with the tinnitus being a raised background noise over a quiet room or say out in the country, I notice I still can hear very quiet sounds pretty well, underneath my own "background noise".

So, I'm not so worried as I used to be about it. It seems more the way to deal best with it is, accept it that it's there, it's a reminder to try not to stress or overtire myself (awwww, no more staying up to 2am on a weeknight because I really got into some thing/project/etc??) and do more to prevent overstressing my ears further. (got the Hi-Fi Etymotics earplugs for concerts, they're great! use better stuff with the power tools) The good news is that, even though it's there, it dosen't seem to affect my hearing abilities as much as I would fear and expect.