DIY match for JBL speakers

**WillyD** · 10 February 2007, 19:26 Saturday

Sorry, the designers here don't create "warm/bright" speakers.

With your budget though, I'd recommend the RS TMWW 3-ways. The thread is massive and there is a ton of information. There are also a few different designs to consider. You could build a pair of those and a sub for ~$1K.

Or, if I am not mistaken, a pair of the big RS 3-ways (MTMWW) can be built for around $1K.

But keep in mind that the designs here are what I would call neutral/accurate.

**joecarrow** · 10 February 2007, 20:00 Saturday

As far as "warm" goes, the Mission Accomplished speakers aim for a flat response with appropriate reproduction of all frequencies. If you want the sound to be a little warmer/brighter, you can just turn up the treble or bass settings on your receiver. The RS 3-ways will produce very good sound, but I noticed that you said you're more interested in bookshelf speakers and a sub.

The Natalie Portman or Modula MT speakers will be reasonably loud, especially if you set the speakers to "small" on your receiver and use a high quality sub. The Modula MTs can cost less than $400 if you have all the tools and you're good at finding bargains on parts such as wood. The Natalie Portmans are maybe $100 to $150 more than that. You can get a very decent sub driver for $150ish, and a good sub amp for $250ish. I think that will fit your budget.

You may be concerned that your present speakers have two 10" woofers and the Natalie Portman only has two 7" woofers. The Dayton Reference RS180 woofers are quite capable, and will do surprisingly well without a sub. With a large cabinet and moderate listening volume, you wouldn't really miss a sub unless you were watching movies or listening to electronic and pipe organ music. They'll happily play the bottom string of an electric bass, which is a bit lower than the most important parts of acoustic bassdrums.

So, it's basically the RS 3-way, or one of the smaller ones plus a sub. Either way should give you great sound.

**garto** · 10 February 2007, 20:06 Saturday

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll think about it some more in regards to do I want a tower or some bigger bookshelfs and a sub.

**cotdt** · 10 February 2007, 20:48 Saturday

actually all the Dayton Reference designs posted here sound "warm".

**fjhuerta** · 10 February 2007, 21:07 Saturday

Yeah, the Dayton designs are warm, and loveable.

Although I'd say they don't have the same tonality as a JBL speaker. Not by a long shot. I'd say you'd find them "boring" at first.

**cjd** · 10 February 2007, 21:45 Saturday

See, and my first thought was, we don't build stuff that bad 'round here.

Not that the JBL stuff is bad, it's actually downright decent (what I've heard) for what it is and all.

I don't think "warm" is accurate, but "full" might be. Many people confuse the two - so many speakers are restrained, almost constipated, in their lower midrange performance. Or maybe that IS warm, since warm is a purely subjective reaction.

C

**Dennis H** · 10 February 2007, 22:27 Saturday

My take on the old JBL stuff is great drivers and so-so crossovers. I can't find the thread now but Dennis Murphy reworked the crossover on one of the vintage JBLs and the owner was thrilled with the improvement.

**Nathan P** · 10 February 2007, 22:51 Saturday

Of all the reasonably priced speakers I've heard, I love my dad's PSBs, they blow our friend's more expensive Klipschs out of the water,(By my ear) and I haven't heard anything in their price range that can touch them.

**garto** · 11 February 2007, 01:46 Sunday

Yeah I like the Jbl's a lot more than the Klipsch promedia speakers I have. And CJD I think you are right in the fullness. Its an unfair comparison above since one system is basically a htib and the other are floor standers but still those two speakers provide much more sound than the five satelites and sub. Not just in volume either but really in how much sound there is, I guess you could say depth.

I do know Jbl's aren't the best, its mostly lower range stuff than what I think you guys are used to but between the htib that most my friends have and my fathers Jbl's, it's night and day. I am very glad that the Dayton designs are going to be similar. It is some very good reassurance for me. Now to just pick

What really is the difference between the dayton MT and the MTM's posted besides price and size. Does the extra woofer get you that much or would the extra money be better spent towards a sub? The content would be about 75% music 25% movies 2 channel (or 2.1).

**fjhuerta** · 11 February 2007, 12:26 Sunday

Originally posted by cjd

See, and my first thought was, we don't build stuff that bad 'round here.

Not that the JBL stuff is bad, it's actually downright decent (what I've heard) for what it is and all.

I don't think "warm" is accurate, but "full" might be. Many people confuse the two - so many speakers are restrained, almost constipated, in their lower midrange performance. Or maybe that IS warm, since warm is a purely subjective reaction.

C

Not bad at all! But I remember owning some old model JBLs (LX-33, LX-66, L82, Control LA, Control 5s), which were anything but neutral. Fun? Yeah! Exciting? Yeah! Party on, Wayne? Yeah! Similar to the Dayton RS designs? NO!

**fjhuerta** · 11 February 2007, 12:30 Sunday

Originally posted by garto

What really is the difference between the dayton MT and the MTM's posted besides price and size. Does the extra woofer get you that much or would the extra money be better spent towards a sub? The content would be about 75% music 25% movies 2 channel (or 2.1).

If I were listening to 75% music, I'd forget about trying to integrate a sub and build the Nat-Ps or the Modula MTM's. I'm listening to mine in a very large open room (I don't know.. perhaps 8 x 10 meters or more?) and find bass response to be perfect... even though I have an old Adire Audio Tempest subwoofer. I've never even thought about using it now...

**cjd** · 11 February 2007, 13:19 Sunday

Fullness is interesting. At the '05 DIY event here in Chicago, my MTM's narrowly edged out a TM with the RS150 and the Seas TBFC/G tweeter (I use 2 RS150's and a Seas 27TDFC...) - the difference was that the sound on the MTM's was fuller and deeper (and I believe this is a spacial deeper, not a Hz deeper). Our crossovers were very similar, and we had SPL matched so it should have been about identical. The difference was in box size/tuning - he'd packed it into a nice small ported box, and I'd really optimized box size to a lower-Q state. Subsequent comparisons with commercial speakers suggests down-sizing boxes is THE biggest cause of any sense of "constrained" we get from speakers.

And, my JBL comment was really tongue in cheek. JBL knows how to make drivers, without a doubt. They do some superb work on that front!

C

**joecarrow** · 11 February 2007, 16:07 Sunday

There's no doubt that JBL knows how to make good drivers. The main problem is that most of the consumer stuff is built to reach a low price including shipping and a cut for the middle man (best buy), so there's not much left over to do it right. To top it off, they know they're designing for horrible "show rooms" that are really corners of warehouses (best buy), and they need to exaggerate the extremes in order to make their speakers stand out.

If I was making a high-SPL high quality speaker, for example if I was getting into music again and making my own PA, then I'd definitely look at JBL pro drivers just as closely as Eminence, B&C, EV, PHL, and any others.

**Ben P** · 11 February 2007, 16:37 Sunday

garto,

Are you talking about the fairly new (but now discontinued) Northridge E-100s? If you are, they weren't replaced by the L series, they were replaced by the Venue series. The L series is more expensive. If you are talking about the Northridge E-100s, those are (IMO) some of the best engineered speakers available, and they are definitely the best value, along with other Harmon brand speakers like Infinity (Primus 360, etc.). JBL is weird though, because their higher end designs, like the K2 and Array series, use not so good horn designs. The K2 and Array series would be [even more?] amazing if they stuck with the EOS waveguide of their lower cost designs.

I can't really offer any suggestions here. I just wanted to say that the JBLs are very well designed, in spite of their low cost, and may be hard to equal.

**garto** · 11 February 2007, 18:45 Sunday

Yeah he has the northridge E-100 series. He purchased them about a year ago then they shortly discontinued thereafter and he was really sad because he couldn't buy the rest of them for a home theatre setup. I can't wait until spring break when I can build the MTM's. I saw a thread about some bass bins too so I see and upgrade path that is really important to me.

**Doug Lockwood** · 11 February 2007, 22:42 Sunday

Our crossovers were very similar, and we had SPL matched so it should have been about identical.

My biggest complaint about the Chicago 2005 DIY event was no effort to match levels. I heard your speakers and saw you, so I assume we were both there.

Unless you have an unregistered clone? :E My brother had a full and frank exchange over just that point with one of the organizers.

ops:
I found it almost impossible to judge anything, given the unfamiliar recordings, the large size of the room. However, I think that anything that helped the base in that room mattered. Even the NatP sounded lost.

I did find the JBL L100 rebuild thread fascinating. I have been looking at Waveguides and pro midranges differently ever since. Too many projects. 8O

Doug

DIY match for JBL speakers

DIY match for JBL speakers

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