First diy project: Bose buster

[bobhowell]

Madisound suggest a.64 cf box with f3 of 60 for the Silver Flute 8". I can't get that in Unibox. What is fb?

Now I think this is sealed. QTCof .23 and sealed??

[augerpro]

Hmmm a quick and dirty sim yesterday of 15L (I think) tuned to 30hz was alright. If I remember right if you went much bigger the gains were pretty small. The TB was MUCH flatter but those really reach deep for small drivers. The variable boost on the NHT amp would match well with the Silverflute though.

[bobhowell]

Hmmm a quick and dirty sim yesterday of 15L (I think) tuned to 30hz was alright. If I remember right if you went much bigger the gains were pretty small. The TB was MUCH flatter but those really reach deep for small drivers. The variable boost on the NHT amp would match well with the Silverflute though.

Well, I had 18L and 33hz, so I was not far off. I was trying to flatten it out more. I did not understand the NHT amp had variable boost.

The amp can drive 2 speakers in separate boxes set 6-8' apart. Is this how you see it? If so, do you model it as one driver at 1/2 the watts of110 or 55watts?

[augerpro]

I'll have to get to your questions when I have a bit more time, but I just wanted to take a second to ask if these will be used for music only, or HT? The Silverflute will be excellent with music, and three helps with power output, but they do only have 5mm of linear excursion. I would say these are light duty subwoofers in this application. If your application is HT and you like the explosions, the TangBand may be a better fit.

[HareBrained]

Madisound likes to use the Thieles Qt method for calculating the vented enclosures. The Fb for their recommended enclosure is 48Hz. This is confirmed with Unibox. The FR curve is good but definitely lookin' like a woofer in that alignment. (W20RC38-08)

18L/33Hz would definitely need some EQ to bring up the lower end. F3 is reported to be 80Hz. I'd definitely go bigger. I like the 30L with 38-40Hz Fb. It's roll-off is a lot sharper but response is much more usable IMO. I think the Dayton DC200 would be a better inexpensive 8" woofer.

[bobhowell]

I'll have to get to your questions when I have a bit more time, but I just wanted to take a second to ask if these will be used for music only, or HT? The Silverflute will be excellent with music, and three helps with power output, but they do only have 5mm of linear excursion. I would say these are light duty subwoofers in this application. If your application is HT and you like the explosions, the TangBand may be a better fit.

I am still working out the concept. I got the amps now to insure availability. The speakers and boxes can wait 2 months. No rush.

I have subs for my HT. These are for music in the den/kitchen.

Thanks for the info.Bob

[augerpro]

John (Harebrained) that Dayton is probably worth looking into too for the economic version. Good call.

[bobhowell]

I have been checking woofer specs to understand what will work with the two NHT surplus Foster Amps I just got. In studying subs I wandered over to Linkwitzs site and noticed the sub he uses for one of his designs. The Peerless 10" 8 ohm sls 830668 for $56.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_258&products_id=1705

This seems to be ideal and a good value. Is it clean enough up to 400hzs as we need?

I pluged it into Unibox and it seems to me the foster amps will drive two of them about right like we want.

Did I miss anything?

Bob Howell

[augerpro]

I've always been satisfied by Peerless and those woofers will work well I'm sure. The only thing I'd hesitant on is whether they are more suited to a sealed enclosure which may not have low enough extension, at least for HT. They are kind of on the borderline between sealed/vented. Size of the box may be a concern. If you can make all that work to your satisfaction then I say go for it, as these will have smooth response and decent distortion performance.

[augerpro]

Well I think I'm going to go with the 8" Silverflutes. The boost of the NHT amps will match perfectly and the sensitivity is a good match too. And three little subs for a bit over $200 is a bargain! I did take a closer look at the Dayton DC200 and I think the Silverflute is overall a better fit. Smaller box and the distortion is lower.

Starting cutting wood for the enclosure yesterday too!

[joeybutts]

Sorry for the elementary question, and maybe my own fault for searching too hard, but were the drivers involved in this the following...

Mains - M3N and ND20FB
Center - M4N, M3N and ND20FB

?

Thanks for any clarification....

[ThomasW]

Yes..

[joeybutts]

Thanks Thomas!

[RubberDucky]

I am totally new to speaker building and these seemed like the best bet for me to try as a first build because of the price. I have a 12" powered Sony subwoofer from Best Buy, which I now realize probably isn't very good at all. Would it at least do the job with the Bose Busters? This site has the specs on it. They would be running from a Pioneer VSX-517, would this be a good/decent amp for these speakers?

If anyone has some more noob-friendly information on building these I would really appreciate it!

I am going to get the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and try to figure out all those squiggly lines and shapes on the crossover schematics. At least I already know how to solder! haha!

Sorry for the elementary question, and maybe my own fault for searching too hard, but were the drivers involved in this the following...

Mains - M3N and ND20FB
Center - M4N, M3N and ND20FB

?

Thanks for any clarification....

I noticed that too, he never actually says the M4N in his first post. haha!

[bobhowell]

I am totally new to speaker building and these seemed like the best bet for me to try as a first build because of the price. I have a 12" powered Sony subwoofer from Best Buy, which I now realize probably isn't very good at all. Would it at least do the job with the Bose Busters? This site has the specs on it. They would be running from a Pioneer VSX-517, would this be a good/decent amp for these speakers?

If anyone has some more noob-friendly information on building these I would really appreciate it!

I am going to get the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and try to figure out all those squiggly lines and shapes on the crossover schematics. At least I already know how to solder! haha!





I noticed that too, he never actually says the M4N in his first post. haha!

Brandon is working up a new design that he feels will sound a lot better than BBI. It is BBII so, you might want to wait a few weeks. Check here under Whats Brandon Cooking for details. He has made them but has not written up the design.

[augerpro]

Fixed the first post to reflect the woofers used.

As Bob mentioned I have a successor to this project that will be leaps and bounds better. I had hoped to have the BBV2 done by now, but the driver testing I did this summer went on for much longer than I planned and I'm currently trying to get my No Quarter project ready for the RMAF get-together at Tom's house on Oct. 2nd.

[RubberDucky]

Fixed the first post to reflect the woofers used.

As Bob mentioned I have a successor to this project that will be leaps and bounds better. I had hoped to have the BBV2 done by now, but the driver testing I did this summer went on for much longer than I planned and I'm currently trying to get my No Quarter project ready for the RMAF get-together at Tom's house on Oct. 2nd.

I love the look of these drivers and the entire speaker has such a bold awesome look, which I would happily sacrifice for way better sound quality! Hahahaha!

As for the Bose Buster V2. I ask one thing of you, take lots and lots of pictures and make it incredibly noob friendly... With a parts list... How much will they cost?

[joeybutts]

Do you have a timeframe for the BBv2? I'm leaning more and more towards this build for my father due to the size and hopefully the freq response.

The BBv2's look AMAZING with the contrast of the cones and cab's.....

[augerpro]

For a time frame all I can say is "this fall." I'm pushing to have at least a first draft of the crossovers done this month so I can listen to them. If it pushes into October (likely) we have turnaround at work and I'll be working almost every day for four weeks. So that gets us into November. That's about as far as I can predict right now.

[joeybutts]

That's cool, just wanted to know when I needed to have cash by

[augerpro]

I think Madisound is waiting for a new shipment of the FR88's anyway.

[RubberDucky]

This sounds very very interesting... I'm just wondering how much more they will cost and how much better they will sound.

Will an $80 sub like the 8" silverflute you are talking about making for the BBv2 outperform my Sony SAW3000?

Specs of my sad sony sub:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205730304&listingid=46409595

[bobhowell]

I just got a note from Madisound that the FR88's are back in stock.

[bobhowell]

It would be best to cross over to the sub(s) at 200hz, as the FR88 has an f3 of 150hz sealed. To make this sound good you need 2-4 subs placed around the room.

I have 4 subs with PE plate amps and all cover from 180 hz down. They won't work with the Fountek FR88. So for this aplication I got two Foster amps(that can cross over at 200hz) from NHT surplus sale for $70 and $33 shipping. Each will drive two of the Silver flute 8" drivers, which can be placed around the room in different boxes. So, two amps will driver 4 speakers placed at 4 locations. This has resulted in good sound for others when crossing over high as is needed here. However you must have a way to cross over actively at 200hz. I will have to get a av receiver with a 200hz crossover or a separate cross over to use with my stereo receiver.

I glanced at your specs and your sub may work, as it is shown to start at 200hzs.

[RubberDucky]

It would be best to cross over to the sub(s) at 200hz, as the FR88 has an f3 of 150hz sealed. To make this sound good you need 2-4 subs placed around the room.

I have 4 subs with PE plate amps and all cover from 180 hz down. They won't work with the Fountek FR88. So for this aplication I got two Foster amps(that can cross over at 200hz) from NHT surplus sale for $70 and $33 shipping. Each will drive two of the Silver flute 8" drivers, which can be placed around the room in different boxes. So, two amps will driver 4 speakers placed at 4 locations. This has resulted in good sound for others when crossing over high as is needed here. However you must have a way to cross over actively at 200hz. I will have to get a av receiver with a 200hz crossover or a separate cross over to use with my stereo receiver.

I glanced at your specs and your sub may work, as it is shown to start at 200hzs.

I have a very small room. Its about 12' x 12' with a 9' ceiling. Wouldn't just one of those amps powering two 8" Silver Flutes be plenty of bass?

[RubberDucky]

I just looked and Madisound has the FR88's back like bob said. About $25 each. So its probably going to be around $280-$300 for a 5.0 system, with the 4 woofer setup it would be like twice that I am sure... That is assuming you use single drivers for the rear speakers.

I am still wondering if I should try the BBv1... =/ Its just so pretty and all.... Plus its my first build and I still have no idea of what anything is, and I won't have anything to compare it to. So if its cheaper I just might do it...

[bobhowell]

I currently have 5 of Zaph's ZBM4's for my HT. They are a little bigger but sound great. You can cross them at 100hz and get away with one sub.

http://zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html

They will cost around $40 each.

The BBII are a very small, great sounding setup, but are more complex.

[RubberDucky]

I currently have 5 of Zaph's ZBM4's for my HT. They are a little bigger but sound great. You can cross them at 100hz and get away with one sub.

http://zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html

They will cost around $40 each.

The BBII are a very small, great sounding setup, but are more complex.

Thanks for the suggestion. Would they sound better than the BBv1? However they don't have a center speaker design... Won't that effect things?

[bobhowell]

Anything shaking here?? Have I missed any developments?

[augerpro]

I'm on vacation right now, and working on them. All the cabs are done, just putting drivers in now. Pics in a few days, and I'll have measurements this week to remodel them with the Vifa NE19 tweeter that replaced the DQ25 that I originally used last fall. The three little subs using the Silverflute 8" and passive radiators look pretty cool too.

BTW this is for the old BB, any discussion on the new ones should probably go here until I post a build thread.

[djkest]

I had a big interest in making these speakers, especially the Center Channel. Unfortunately, the price of the crossover components has gone up so much that it would now cost $70 for the drivers and $100+ for the crossover components! I'm wondering about building that Center without the middle 3" driver and just doing a simple 2nd-order 2-way crossover at 3kHz or 4 kHz. The M4Ns should be pretty good for the midrange and vocals, but I'd still need at least an L-pad on the tweeter.

[Fdas]

I'll copy my email to dawaro here so everyone has the details:

I don't have any CAD program so I'll just give you the placement of the drivers in (x,y) like you were graphing it ok? lower left of the enclosure is (0,0).

For the MTMs: enclosure is 10 1/2"h by 4 1/4"w, this includes the endcaps. Bottom woofer is at (2 1/8", 2 1/2"), tweeter at (2 1/8", 5 1/4"), and top woofer at (2 1/8", 8"). Depth is not real critical. I went 8" deep (inside the box, 9" overall), you can go more, although I wouldn't go much less. I'm pretty much at the minimum volume I would use for these. Line the walls appropriately and you can add some fill, not alot though. R12 can be modified. At 1.5 ohms the sound is more laidback, remove it altogether and the sound is brighter. I liked it removed the best for the clarity, but it can get a bit fatiguing that way. These sound really quite good for the size. My friends were laughing when they heard them, they couldn't believe all that sound was coming from these little speakers! Cross them at 150 Hz to sub. These can't play low so don't try it.

For the Center Channel the enclosure measures 6 3/4"h by 15 1/2"w. The woofers are at (3", 3 3/8") and (12 1/2", 3 3/8"), mid is at (7 3/4", 2 1/2"), and the tweeter at (7 3/4", 5 1/4"). The depth is 12" (11" inside the box). The mid is in it's own little enclosure. The mid volume is about 1 liter, heavily filled. You can go bigger here but since it's a mid it doesn't need alot of volume. The tweeter shares the same small enlosure as the mid. The woofers are another story they are very high Q. The box volume is smaller than is optimal. If you can go deeper than 12" I would do that. Fill heavily. Right now I have 3 dB peak around 100Hz because of the Qtc. However I just lined the walls for the prototype, so you should be able lower that with the fill. The last XO I posted is correct. Cross between 100-150 Hz to the sub. This is the prototype that i measured with the XO outside the box, so if I were you I would definatley try to make the speaker deeper so you have some volume to throw away on putting the XO inside.

The tweeter is just slightly bigger than 1 3/8". I used a 1 3/8" forstner? bit and then sanded. The tweeter isn't quite 1/2" tall so you will have to grind down or route the back of the baffle where the tweeter flange is so the front of the tweeter is flush with the face of the baffle. After you cut the hole and put the tweeter in you''l see what I mean. All woofers are flush mounted.

I cut the endcaps 1/4" oversize so they overhang the edge by 1/8" on all sides. Then I used 1/8" roundover on them.

Green driver icon is normal polarity and blue is reversed polarity. All caps were Dayton and all coils were Jantzen, mostly 18 guage, but one or two 15s for the big inline caps I think


Hope that helps!



EDIT Added 5/12/2007 Final XO schematics- BLUE DRIVER(S) ARE WIRED IN REVERSE POLARITY!

MTM schematic and component list:











WMTW centerchannel schematic and component list:









EDIT 8/30/07 Baffle layout added

With so much information being lost to photo-bucket's new policy, is there anyone who can update this so these speakers are still buildable by the community?

[bobhowell]

I built single speakers with F88 drivers7-8 years ago and have used m since as surround speakers. No center channel. Wife loves them.

[augerpro]

With so much information being lost to photo-bucket's new policy, is there anyone who can update this so these speakers are still buildable by the community?

They are at my Soma Sonus website. When I have time I'll try to repost to this thread, but don't hold your breath.