Anyone have any experience with the Flexwood 10-mil paperback veneer sheets?

[jonathanb3478]

I bacame interested in Flexwood sheets after discovering that someone here used a TapeEase 4'X8' sheet, and it was not book matched. The Flexwood product specifically mentions "book matched" as a feature. One unbroken woodgrain pattern is my primary goal in the use of veneer on my project.

I was hoping for a woodbacked product, not a paperbacked one, but I understand paperbacked will work with the contact cement method (my chosen attachment method). I will not be using anything but poly as a finish (no stain, etc), in case that would affect someone's advice.

So, anyone with any previous experience with one of these veneer sheets? Any other thoughts/comments/suggestions on getting good bookmatched venner sheets that are not outrageously expensive? I might be close to continuing construction, and ordering the veneer is the fist step once I do.

Thanks, guys!

[Biff]

Easy to use

This was my first veneer with a roundover and I was worried since 1/2" was the biggest radius I could find for 1/4" collet. Tried some on scrap and it was not a problem running the grain along the length. To clamp I used a sheet (folded a few times over) and cinched tight after application for an hour or so. Two years later, no bubbles, and feels totally solid.

https://www.shootersphotos.com/biff/left.jpg

[Brian Bunge]

What are the prices like of this stuff vs. what Tape Ease sells? For instance, a 4x8 sheet of 10-mil paperbacked A Grade cherry veneer is around $60 (last time I purchased from them anyway) I've never had anyone complain about the veneers I've purchased from Tape Ease. Everything I've ever veneered with their stuff has turned out beautiful, IMHO.

[dlneubec]

One other company you might check out if Oakwood Veneers. They are out of Michigan and have a huge selection. I'm using some of their 22.2 mil bubble free veneer on my omni project and it is excellent. I've done three apps of urethane oil to a test piece and it never came through to the back of the paper. It is thick stuff, though I don't know how well the 22.2 mil would bend for roundover application. You might have to use the 10 mil for that.

The veneer I'm using is Italian Rosewood. I don't know if it is book matched, but I can't tell where the seems are, so they certainly did a good job of matching what they sent me. They might be worth further investigation.

Oakwood Veneers

[JonMarsh]

Woodcraft and Rockler stock some good veneers in store, including paper back and non backed- If you've got one nearby, you might want to check that out, as you get to see first hand what you're buying.

I'm not a fan of contact cement for wood veneer, recommend you at least consider PVA glue with iron on.

[Chris7]

I bacame interested in Flexwood sheets after discovering that someone here used a TapeEase 4'X8' sheet, and it was not book matched. The Flexwood product specifically mentions "book matched" as a feature. One unbroken woodgrain pattern is my primary goal in the use of veneer on my project.

I think there might be a misconception/misunderstanding about terminology here. Unbroken (continuous) woodgrain pattern is called "grain matched" veneer. You don't need book-matching to get an unbroken woodgrain pattern. Book-matching specifically refers to a mirror-imaged pattern (ie. a symmetric pattern) on a single sheet of veneer. This is popular for doors and certain other architectural applications, but it doesn't sound like it's a requirement for you from what you say.

All paper-backed veneer I've ever seen is grain-matched, at least sort of. The quality of this matching may depend on the grade of the veneer, the manufacturer, and of course the natural grain of the wood. Wood grain being what it is, the match will never be perfect (except see my comments below about rotary cut), but it will generally be convincing. The lowest quality grain matching is called "random matching", but done properly even it will still have the appearance of a single unbroken woodgrain pattern from more than a foot or two away. You can see a few types of matching here:

http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/tips/match.html

Note they greatly exaggerate the look of random matching in the diagram. Veneer that really looked that bad would be junk.

Also, be aware that certain cuts of wood never allow for book matching. Rotary cut veneer, for example, has the best grain matching on a single sheet (because it's essentially one continuous cut), but cannot be practically book matched. Here's a page with an illustration of this:

http://www.comptonlbr.com/Veneer.html

So, anyone with any previous experience with one of these veneer sheets? Any other thoughts/comments/suggestions on getting good bookmatched venner sheets that are not outrageously expensive? I might be close to continuing construction, and ordering the veneer is the fist step once I do.

My advice is to decide whether book-matching is really what you want, and if so, specify it when you order. Be prepared to pay slightly more (or the supplier may move you up to a higher grade of veneer, and you may pay a greater premium). If you're sticking with one of the basics (maple, oak, fir, pine, alder, mahogany, beech, cherry, etc.), I'd suggest buying from a local supplier. Just go to where your local carpenters, cabinet-makers, furniture-builders, etc. buy their veneer. That way you'll see what you're getting, and you can pick a sheet with a grain that appeals to you. In my area, local prices from wholesalers are typically equal or cheaper than ordering online. For exotic stuff, speak to your local supplier first. If they can't order it in, or charge you some outrageous special order charge for small orders, then I'd consider online.

[jonathanb3478]

I think there might be a misconception/misunderstanding about terminology here. Unbroken (continuous) woodgrain pattern is called "grain matched" veneer.

All paper-backed veneer I've ever seen is grain-matched, at least sort of.

My advice is to decide whether book-matching is really what you want, and if so, specify it when you order. ... For exotic stuff, speak to your local supplier first. If they can't order it in, or charge you some outrageous special order charge for small orders, then I'd consider online.

I see. So, what I want is a high quality grain matching on the veneer I get. Since I am interested in Santos Rosewood (Pau Ferro), I wonder if it is available cheaply from local suppliers. For 10mil paperback, TapeEase and the source I found for the Flexwood are essentially the same price. No real difference.

TapeEase does have the NBL for a bit more. Actually, their NBL is the same price as Oakwood's 10mil paperbacked sheets. The BPV from Oakwood is even more.

Well, I now have a strong desire to see what I am buying before I pay for it. Hmm... my friends father works for a garage cabinet mfg/installer, maybe they know of a local veneer source. I will ask.

[jonathanb3478]

Woodcraft and Rockler stock some good veneers in store, including paper back and non backed- If you've got one nearby, you might want to check that out, as you get to see first hand what you're buying.

I do have a local Woodcraft. I will check that out.

[Brian Bunge]

NBL is nice veneer, but after learning the proper way to use contact cement I have absolutely no reason to buy NBL anymore. It's also not nearly as flexible as 10-mil paperbacked veneer. Wrapping it around anything less than a 3/4" radius is a questionable at times, whereas the 10-mil paperbacked veneer goes around a 1/2" radius with no problems at all (well, except maybe birds eye maple).

[oxcartdriver]

Well, I now have a strong desire to see what I am buying before I pay for it.

At first I considered the web for veneer, but after looking at several stores (3) for walnut&cherry veneers I liked only about 50% of the samples. Everyone has their own taste, and I would highly recommend buying veneer in person if possible.

Exotics may be another story, but in all honesty my veneering and finishing skills are not worthy of any exotic veneer.

[jonathanb3478]

NBL is nice veneer, but after learning the proper way to use contact cement I have absolutely no reason to buy NBL anymore.

Then I have a question for you...

Is this the "proper way to use contact cement", in your opinion? If not, how is your preferred method different?

I already have the scraper tool shown there, a glue roller that I believe will work with my 3M oil-based contact cement (had to get that in NV, as none is available in CA), and I even bought some wax paper (old school!) for a "seperator sheet" material. I just need a spare ~$175 for the veneer sheet (shipped), and I should be good to go.

[jonathanb3478]

At first I considered the web for veneer, but after looking at several stores (3) for walnut&cherry veneers I liked only about 50% of the samples. Everyone has their own taste, and I would highly recommend buying veneer in person if possible.

Exotics may be another story, but in all honesty my veneering and finishing skills are not worthy of any exotic veneer.

This is the conclusion I am slowly becomming able to admit to myself. I will be visiting the local Woodcraft later today, that is if they are open at all on Saturday.

As far as using exotic veneer, I like rosewood's striking grain appearence. Santos Rosewood (Pau Ferro) is not an actual "rosewood" specie, but it does an excellent imitation of one, thus the honorary "rosewood" in the nick-name. :B Teak is my next (but distant) preference. I will just need to get my Veneering skills up to par. I wants what I wants, ya know?

It turns out that I have a 48" X ~20" sheet of 10mil paperbacked Oak (white? - don't recall) veneer from TapeEase. I got it as a "cast-off" special, some time ago, for <$15 (shipped). Since it now appears I will be working with paperbacked veneer (vs woodbacked), all of that will now come in handy as practice material.

Hmm... maybe I should start practicing sooner, rather than later, even though the actual veneer I want to use may not be ordered for quite some time. Don't want to be rusty by the time I go to do the real stuff, though.

[PMazz]

I even bought some wax paper (old school!) for a "seperator sheet" material.

Just be careful not to leave a ripped off corner under the veneer. If you have any laminate laying around it'll be much easier and safer.

With any veneer scraper, make sure the outside corners are rounded over slightly to avoid marring or tearing of the veneer.

The NBL stuff is great for a flat surface but for enclosures the veneer is too thick IMO for nice corners. You wind up seeing too much of the edge.

If you don't lay down a flat layer of contact cement, the imperfections will telegraph thru the veneer and it'll never get flat. If you can find spray grade it'll help as it's thinner. If not thin out the stuff you're using to get a nice smooth application. The water based cements are great in this regard.

Pete

Pete

[jonathanb3478]

Just be careful not to leave a ripped off corner under the veneer. If you have any laminate laying around it'll be much easier and safer.

With any veneer scraper, make sure the outside corners are rounded over slightly to avoid marring or tearing of the veneer.

The NBL stuff is great for a flat surface but for enclosures the veneer is too thick IMO for nice corners. You wind up seeing too much of the edge.

If you don't lay down a flat layer of contact cement, the imperfections will telegraph thru the veneer and it'll never get flat. If you can find spray grade it'll help as it's thinner. If not thin out the stuff you're using to get a nice smooth application. The water based cements are great in this regard.

Pete

Pete

Thanks for the tips.

Also, I just called Woodcraft and someone answered at ~5:20AM. :E

I was expecting a mailbox/answering maching greeting, and was shocked to have someone pick up. He says they open at 9AM today. So, off to the Post Office at 8:30 to pick up my book from Amazon, then to Woodcraft to check out their veneer offerings.

By the time I am back, hopefully my roomate has gotten up, so I can borrow his tools to remove my Mustang GT's passenger seat. I have decided to use a bit of my federal refund for additional MDF, and then start cutting and glueing the external panels for my RS TMWW enclosure. Once the side panels are on, I will need my seat removed in order to transport the speaker enclosures. Well, without renting a truck.