New Seas drivers at CES

[Jonasz]

Browsed through Zaph's blog and found a link to the new Seas drivers they's introducing at CES 2007. The W16NX and the new Prestige tweeters looks interesting.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/CES_2007_3.pdf

[capslock]

Hmm, I have no idea what the surround of the new Mag cone drivers look like. If anybody could snap and post a pic, that would be highly appreciated.

The new tweeters look like winners. The Nd ring magnet seens to allow for much better airflow. Their impedance curves have much higher mechanical Q compared to the TBC and TDC which are also non-ferrofluid drivers. Actually, the TBC and TDC are closer to their ferro siblings TBFC and TDFC than to the new Nd cousins.

The new titanium TTNC dome has its supersonic breakup at exactly the same frequency (27 kHz) as the older AlMg dome used in the TBC and other models, but the breakup peak is much less severe (15 compared to 30 dB), as is the off axis 17 kHz dip.

Interestingly, they say they are using an aluminum VC former. If this is really the case, they are using a two piece design with a glue joint between former and dome (normally, metal domes are extended so that dome and former are made from one piece of metal). This and the higher density of Ti nonwithstanding, the lower mass of 0.32 g is actually less than the 0,33 g of the TBC.

With sensitivity being identical and fs close, the TTNC could be a drop in replacement for the TBC, but the front plate diameterhas also been reduced

Also, they have failed to answer my prayers for a version of the TAFNC that will actually fit inside the 38 mm VC of their 7 and 8 in. woofers


I am not a big fan of paper cones, but their new reed/paper ER series looks like a winner, too. FR is very extended, and there is comparatively little evidence of cone resonances.

The bigger ER18RNX is not as clean as the ER15, but the 6 dB peak at 4.8 kHz still looks reasonably benign, and exention to 7 kHz is not bad at all for a 7 in. driver.

They used the biggest motors availably and pretty long coils (+/- 5 resp. 6 mm linear travel is very unusual for a full range). The ER18 uses a lower shorting ring, a first in a non-Excel Seas driver, as far as I know. The pole piece is most likely identical to those in the L18RN and W18EX, and that means a full Excel grade SD motor can be retrofitted by just removing the dustcap and inserting the top ring (for the L18, one needs to disassembly and realign the magnet to insert the lower ring).

[sdl2112]

A picture of the W16NX001 can be seen in the January issue of AudioXpress, not sure about February as I have not recieved it yet.

Another new SEAS driver is the T29MF001. It is not listed in this CES_2007_3 PDF because it was actually introduced last year but they were unable to produce it until now. A picture and some info can be found in this thread Here courtesy of Jon Marsh. The response may need shaping but I understand it has an Xmax of +/- 0.7mm and a pretty high flux density of 1.9T. Could it become the new low frequency king? If it is priced like the Crescendo it better do some things very well.

-Scott

[jkrutke]

Hmm, I have no idea what the surround of the new Mag cone drivers look like. If anybody could snap and post a pic, that would be highly appreciated.

Here's one. It's basically little slanted ribs. It shows the new frame too. A lot less surround and frame, and more cone area.

Someone call the fashion police, I'm not sure if normal Excel colors go with that gray Nextel frame.

[AJINFLA]

WHAT? No Excel Hexadym Coaxial with flat surround??? :Z

[Habs4life]

The new tweeters look like winners. The Nd ring magnet seens to allow for much better airflow. Their impedance curves have much higher mechanical Q compared to the TBC and TDC which are also non-ferrofluid drivers. Actually, the TBC and TDC are closer to their ferro siblings TBFC and TDFC than to the new Nd cousins.

.

In your opinion do the non- ferros outperform the ferros?

[JonMarsh]

A picture of the W16NX001 can be seen in the January issue of AudioXpress, not sure about February as I have not recieved it yet.

Another new SEAS driver is the T29MF001. It is not listed in this CES_2007_3 PDF because it was actually introduced last year but they were unable to produce it until now. A picture and some info can be found in this thread Here courtesy of Jon Marsh. The response may need shaping but I understand it has an Xmax of +/- 0.7mm and a pretty high flux density of 1.9T. Could it become the new low frequency king? If it is priced like the Crescendo it better do some things very well.

-Scott

Boy isn't THAT the truth! I wonder what happened to those- thanks for posting.

[ssabripo]

yes, I was there and saw them...the posted curves look very interesting, and have some good potential. But the price is kinda scary if its TBD as the guy told me.

here is a pic:

[cotdt]

on the new W16NX, what is the point of ribs on the surround?

[crackyflipside]

on the new W16NX, what is the point of ribs on the surround?

For her pleasure. :P

I would guess it would add rigidity to the surround, maybe to make it stiffer? Maybe one of the speaker gurus here can clue us in.

[TacoD]

Thank you for the pictures and comments. I still want to try some nextel cone's.

You have to pay for quality and I think the development department of Seas needs lots of money (so that the chinese can copy....).

[capslock]

In your opinion do the non- ferros outperform the ferros?

Well, both in MarkK's test of the TDFC vs. TDC as well as in various tests by the German magazine HobbyHifi, the non-ferro versions of Seas tweeters (we can get non-ferro version of almost any Seas model because the main distributor has them made as an OEM product) tend to be a tiny bid better, but its barely significant.

[jkrutke]

Hello,

Seas sent me an updated PDF file, fixing some typos and errors, and adding some last minute changes. The original link in this thread will no longer work, and the updated one can be found here:

Seas CES 2007

Well, both in MarkK's test of the TDFC vs. TDC as well as in various tests by the German magazine HobbyHifi, the non-ferro versions of Seas tweeters (we can get non-ferro version of almost any Seas model because the main distributor has them made as an OEM product) tend to be a tiny bid better, but its barely significant.

The new Prestige tweeters will have ferrofluid. It depends on how you define "better" but I prefer the ferrofluid versions personally. Yes, the non-ferrofluid versions have a bit lower non-linear distortion, but the ferrofluid versions have a more controlled impedance peak, a smoother low end rolloff and higher power handling. A fair trade off in my opinion. I dislike the the twin impedance peaks and ragged low end response curve in the non FF versions.

[Mark K]

John, you cheapskate

Hello,

Seas sent me an updated PDF file, fixing some typos and errors, and adding some last minute changes. The original link in this thread will no longer work, and the updated one can be found here:

Seas CES 2007



The new Prestige tweeters will have ferrofluid. It depends on how you define "better" but I prefer the ferrofluid versions personally. Yes, the non-ferrofluid versions have a bit lower non-linear distortion, but the ferrofluid versions have a more controlled impedance peak, a smoother low end rolloff and higher power handling. A fair trade off in my opinion. I dislike the the twin impedance peaks and ragged low end response curve in the non FF versions.

Nonferro is so much more elegant. Electrical is better than mechanical dampening anyway...

I'll use the TDC to spite you all :a>

PS You're right about the Usher 8945P. Outstanding nonlinear distortion. If it didn't have that rather large dip in FR, it would be equal/better than the 18W4531 rev. I'll have an interesting 7" distortion comparo redo posted shortly. The HDS exclusive is also moving up on the ladder. Buy your PE 3/4 cabinets now for the Peerless combo. What a bargain at $59 a cabinet. Funny how our different testing methods come to the same conclusion. Except of course, the XG18. Every time I test it, it seems to distort more. Maybe it doesn't do well in my 38 degree testing garage. Funny, the other drivers did just fine...anyway, the XG is, well, motor challenged. Someone needs to rip the motor off, say, the usher and put it on the XG18 cone.

I think we should come up with a contest to see how many designs can fit into the PE 3/4 cabinet.

[Habs4life]

Nonferro is so much more elegant. Electrical is better than mechanical dampening anyway...

I have heard that some claim the non ferros offer a bit better detail because supposedly the ferrofluid adds a bit of drag to the movement of the VC.

[Jed]

I've got some 27TDC coming tomorrow to test out in a little 2-way with CA15LY. I'm looking forward to hearing the non-ferro tweeter up against Peerless HDS 1" dome in a future design. Well, actually I shouldn't compare them because one design uses completely different crossover slope, midrange etc.

Jed

[JonMarsh]

I think we should come up with a contest to see how many designs can fit into the PE 3/4 cabinet.

Now THAT'S a fun idea! Could have a DIY meet just devoted to PE 3/4 cu ft speakers! :B

Who says the world doesn't need any more 6-1/2" two ways? (I think I heard a guy named Mark say that once, but obviously HE's come around...

~Jon

[DearS]

So are the new speakers an improvement with similar value ($$)?

[jkrutke]

Funny how our different testing methods come to the same conclusion. Except of course, the XG18.

You know, it could just be the difference between my infinite baffle method and your free air method. Free air could be a lot of work for a driver with a tiny Xmax.

I actually think I favor the non-phase plug A version Usher. I'll trade a little non-linear for some linear improvement. Just a little though. I suppose I should nab a few of those while they are on sale and/or before they sell out. I bet they'd be good in my waveguide towers.

Keeping on topic, I think the Seas W22NY001 looks ripe for an 8" 2-way.

[JonMarsh]

Keeping on topic, I think the Seas W22NY001 looks ripe for an 8" 2-way.

I was thinking that when I saw the SPL plot, but you could have heard my draw drop from disappointment seeing the glitches in the impedance curve at 750 Hz and 1.8 kHz. When one of you tries some shaped sine testing on it, see if you can figure out if that's energy storage in the suspension or a bonafide cone problem...

7mm looks good, and the other specs stack up... looks like 1500 -1800 Hz would be a breeze... but I'm suspecious of that Nextel stuff, given how the others have panned out.

[jkrutke]

WHAT? No Excel Hexadym Coaxial with flat surround??? :Z

Seas Management: "Hmmm, what is the market for an Excel Hexadym Coaxial with flat surround?"

Seas Marketing: "After a lot of research, we found that the market is one guy in Florida. He might buy two though."

:rofl: