VMPS designs are ......

[Heavy-D]

Nevermind.

[cjd]

See that rule up at the top about discussion of other products/vendors/etc ?

Yeah. It's gonna apply to discussions of VMPS. Meaning we won't.

You can see a selection of systems that folks have designed and built along with all sorts of relevant data and places to ask further questions up in the Missions Accomplished section. Kingpin's variation (currently in the Mission Possible section as it's in-progress) on the WWMTM I did the crossovers, etc. for may interest you in particular, perhaps.

Or outline your goals specifically and we can point you at some options we think might satisfy your desires and leave you grinning.

C

[Heavy-D]

See that rule up at the top about discussion of other products/vendors/etc ?

Yeah. It's gonna apply to discussions of VMPS. Meaning we won't.

You can see a selection of systems that folks have designed and built along with all sorts of relevant data and places to ask further questions up in the Missions Accomplished section. Kingpin's variation (currently in the Mission Possible section as it's in-progress) on the WWMTM I did the crossovers, etc. for may interest you in particular, perhaps.

Or outline your goals specifically and we can point you at some options we think might satisfy your desires and leave you grinning.

C

Oops! my mistake please delete this post if that will fix things. I'll have to consult you and kingpin for specifics.

[cjd]

You're welcome to ask questions and stuff, but you didn't really give us anything to go on aside from a brand website with whatever marketing-speak they employ. And that doesn't really tell us what you're interested in.

VMPS is an interesting subject - I've never heard any so I really have no basis for ANY observations on the speakers themselves, but threads that include them are never quiet little polite places. At least not for long.

So, if you want to know what we've done that's BIG, or that's small, or that has great response from 5Hz to 40kHz, or...

C

[JonMarsh]

VMPS is an interesting subject - I've never heard any so I really have no basis for ANY observations on the speakers themselves, but threads that include them are never quiet little polite places. At least not for long.


C

Is THAT ever an understatement!!!! :rofl:

BTW, VMPS has discovered dipoles too, at least a deep "V" baffle version.




I'm curious how the power response holds up at different distances, as it appears to be a midrange line source, and sealed monopole from 280 Hz down.


And their new aperture waveguide for dispersion control is at least fairly physically attractive as realized in their new enclosures.



ThomasW will probably ban me from HT Guide for posting all these VMPS pictures...

~Jon

[ThomasW]

For a couple of weeks Jon and I have been discussing the idea of having a separate forum for the discussion of kits. The idea being it would be beneficial for people to be able to exchange info with others, about the pros and cons of any particular kit design without the influence from any vendor.

Over the weekend we obtained permission from the HT-Guide admins to open the new forum as proposed.

It's going to take a couple of days to figure out all the logistics and to write the posting rules for that new forum.

The new forum will not be a free-for-all to bash designs, nor will it be an opportunity for 'fan-boys' to hype their favorite kit designer. So people with axes to grind or those needing to wave flags will have their posts edited at light-speed.

Forum moderators will make minimal comments regarding the designs.

The idea is to permit a fundamentally uncensored exchange of information between existing builders with their experiences and potential builders wanting information about a product or products.

[ThomasW]

ThomasW will probably ban me from HT Guide for posting all these VMPS pictures... ~Jon

I may ban you just because I can..... :W :B

[Heavy-D]

Let's try this again, I like Big full-range tower speakers say 2 12"s, a mid, tweeter and super tweeter (also maybe a 12" downward firing passive radiator). Response 15Hz to 40kHz possible planar mid, and tweeters. High sensitivity with a broad sound stage. Not sure what else to add.

This is what I get for not refreshing before posting. Started writing my response to C and had to leave came back and picked up where I started. LOL

[JonMarsh]

High sensitivity and extended bass DOES add up to big. What do you mean by high sensitivity? (that's not a silly question or intended to challenge you, but to qualify in an engineering sense what you are looking for or expecting.)

For example, a Wilson Audio X1 SLAM is a high sensitivity speaker, and having built a Klone of those of sorts years ago, I have some idea of the challenges in getting that kind of sensitivity along with the extended bottom end (20 Hz territory). It's not cheap or light or necessarily pretty - is that what you're looking for?



Drivers of moderate cost like the Datyon RS270 can be supply moderately high sensitivity and extended bass in a sufficiently large box, but remember there's always Hoffman's iron law. Sometimes it's easier to have 200 watts at your disposal instead of 50 or 75, and deal with a more manageable enclosure size.

Budget? max SPL? As Chris said, tell something specific about what you want. My first inclination is to point you towards his Dayton RS three way designs, particularly if budget is a concern along with good dynamics, and you're willing to work with larger cabinets.

[Heavy-D]

Jon,
I have a pair of Klipsch KSF 8.5's which are rated 94dB that's what I mean. I take no offense to your questions I'm here to learn and need all the help I can get also I deleted in my first post that this will NOT be my first project but something to strive for in the future once I get more experience. This is more of an exploratory thread for future reference.

The Wilson Audio X1 SLAM looks similar to the JMLab/Focal Utopia.

[Rick Craig]

Is THAT ever an understatement!!!! :rofl:

BTW, VMPS has discovered dipoles too, at least a deep "V" baffle version.




I'm curious how the power response holds up at different distances, as it appears to be a midrange line source, and sealed monopole from 280 Hz down.


And their new aperture waveguide for dispersion control is at least fairly physically attractive as realized in their new enclosures.



ThomasW will probably ban me from HT Guide for posting all these VMPS pictures...

~Jon

I see some serious design flaws in this one.

[Heavy-D]

Hmmm...so VMPS doesn't make good speakers they look good I guess?

[ThomasW]

Mr Cheney has a rather unique approach to designing loudspeakers.

[JonMarsh]

Creative. We use the word creative.

Seriously, anyone that can make a living do this for as long as he has has some things going for him, but I'm with Rick's comment on this one. Creativity can be flawed... particularly if pursued for it's own sake. Combining line sources and point sources will always have some problems.

Headstrong and willful he is... seeks adventure he does... this is not the way of the Jedi....

[Davey]

Am I the only one that thinks the new VMPS offerings are spooky looking? I get the shakes just looking at those things.

Davey.

[warnerwh]

HeavyD: If you like the sound of planars there's probably some designs on this forum in the Mission Accomplished area where you could use the BG planars. I thought of doing it myself a few years ago. You could use the RD 50 or RD 75 with something like one of the Aurum Cantus or Raven tweeters. Design a good midwoofer system with two or four good drivers and a pair of outboard sealed subs and you could have an excellent speaker.

There used to be a BG diy forum somewhere but it had little activity. If you do use the BG drivers like the 50 or 75 last I remember, and it could be different now, you really need to cross over at about 600 hz. I'd like to see you do it so I could see how it works out. Most people on the BG forum seemed to be very happy with their speakers' sound.

Two different local guys have RD 75 diy speakers but in both cases the bass integration with the planar was awful. Another weak point is the treble, they rolled off up high but nothing a good tweeter wouldn't cure. The midrange however is truly excellent with those drivers.

Another route that would be excellent imo is a true line array. I thought of this after learning building a world class speaker myself was way over my head. With multiple cone drivers you'll get the speed of the planars with less distortion. A row of ribbon tweeters obviously should sound excellent. The line arrays though need a large listening space as you need to sit a good distance back from them. I would have built a pair myself but the owner of a company who sells line array kits turned out to be very honest and let me know my room isn't really large enough. Btw, thanks for your integrity Rick.

I don't know why but alot of people don't think much of 8" BG drivers. Seems like they could make a good midrange for a 3 way but it seems like they have to be crossed over at 1,000 or higher which really makes them more of a tweeter. Don't know of any other planar drivers available to the public.

[JonMarsh]

Am I the only one that thinks the new VMPS offerings are spooky looking? I get the shakes just looking at those things.

Davey.

As in "built by Area 51 Aliens" kind of spooky?

[JonMarsh]

HeavyD:


I don't know why but alot of people don't think much of 8" BG drivers. Seems like they could make a good midrange for a 3 way but it seems like they have to be crossed over at 1,000 or higher which really makes them more of a tweeter. Don't know of any other planar drivers available to the public.

The Neo8's are quite low in distortion, but a their operating range is similar to dome midranges.



When you consider the low end, that means around 600-700 Hz best case; on the top end, it's the CTC spacing with whatever tweeter you use that becomes an issue, besides their peak and limited extension.

[Heavy-D]

Are they related?

[cjd]

Ahh, the venerable Neo8.

Some day I will use them! Really wanting to actually. It's still mucking about in the back of my mind for that HT project I was speaking about. Different thread of course. Would probably be a blast to use 'em in a 3.5 way WWMTMWW - sensitivity could be up there in such a setup as well. Say, RS270, RS225, Neo8, some nice ribbon tweeter... When you pack a bunch in for an array you're into the cost bracket of the RD50 or RD75, or at least close.

Also have some sketches I've been doing for some experimentation to do with the Neo8, intended use being a dipole. Looking at some construction methods to give them a bit of horn loading, something that most the folks that look here for designs could accomplish... Really kinda hankering to get working on this particular pet project.

So many interesting drivers, so little time, so little money, so little space!

94dB sensitivity is somewhat limiting as far as what components can be used, unless you use a lot of them. The WWMTM 3-ways are about 90-91dB with full baffle-step compensation, just as reference. They definitely have respectable bass response - surprise me sometimes for being sealed.

C

[Heavy-D]

94dB sensitivity is somewhat limiting as far as what components can be used, unless you use a lot of them. The WWMTM 3-ways are about 90-91dB with full baffle-step compensation, just as reference. They definitely have respectable bass response - surprise me sometimes for being sealed.

I suspect the horn design makes it easier to achieve high sensitivity.
WWMTM 3-ways? Are you talking about this?
I like the design and will probably try it in the future. For now it will be a sealed sub and a two-way (MT) for starters.

[cjd]

Horn? Well, that can help, yes... different driver types can be used, there ARE lots of ways to get there if that's your ultimate goal.

And yes, you got the right 3-way thread. I listen to a lot of orchestral and organ music with response into the low 30's, and organ potentially hitting 16Hz, so when I mention bass response, it's not the classic "40Hz is enough" thing.

C