Behringer Dcx2496 Ultradrive Pro Digital Crossover

[jkrueger]

Hi all

Up until this point, everytime somebody brings up this piece of gear http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...43&rak=248-669 I just ignore it. (I assumed that I wasn't smart enough, and didn't have the budget) However....It just struck me, that any bigger speaker build has crossover as a significant part of the budget.

Could someone like me (No experience.....builder not designer....two channel audio only) buy one of these, and put any drivers in a well designed box and put together a good sounding crossover? Why didn't I think of this before? :E

I could have totally missed the point here. Please let me know if I have. :lol: It seems to be way too easy. Thanks for the help

Jon

[clearwaterms]

well, keep in mind that for every driver you will need a channel of amplification using that. It's a preamp cross over...

[nerd of nerds]

Hi all

Up until this point, everytime somebody brings up this piece of gear http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...43&rak=248-669 I just ignore it. (I assumed that I wasn't smart enough, and didn't have the budget) However....It just struck me, that any bigger speaker build has crossover as a significant part of the budget.

Could someone like me (No experience.....builder not designer....two channel audio only) buy one of these, and put any drivers in a well designed box and put together a good sounding crossover? Why didn't I think of this before? :E

I could have totally missed the point here. Please let me know if I have. :lol: It seems to be way too easy. Thanks for the help

Jon

Well, if measurements for the drivers are available (good measurements like from mark k or zaph) and you've got the amps to drive it I don't see any problem with it.

This is a really appealing option for testing an XO design, then transferring it into a passive design...

[JonMarsh]

In principle, yes. But it's a bit like taking someone without training and putting them in a formula car or bike say, at Laguna Seca or Infineon Raceway (shamelss plug).

If you're familiar with the basics of driving, you should be able to get around the track.

Set new laptime records? Uh, probably not. Something in between, I'd guess. And hopefully you wouldn't kill your self or any spectators.

The DCX2496 is reasonably powerful, but it can't do everything a passive crossover can do. But it can do a lot. If you have an understanding of acoustical transfer functions that work well in multi-way speakers, and the differerce between what a driver naturally does in a given baffle or system, versus what it needs to do, then you've got the basis for where to start and how. Otherwise, you might spend a lot of frustrating time hunting for the holy grail in the outhouse.

Maybe some of those who have DCX2496 chime in about their experience and how they use it. I just got one, for quick prototyping of designs, but haven't even plugged it in yet.

~Jon

[jkrueger]

Not what I hoped

"Holy grail in the outhouse" sounds like it would be just that. Thank you for you quick reply. I was looking for an "easy" way to "design" my own. I guess that anything worth doing is probably not going to be easy. Sounds like I will be better off letting those who know do the hard stuff. : : :


Jon

[nerd of nerds]

"Holy grail in the outhouse" sounds like it would be just that. Thank you for you quick reply. I was looking for an "easy" way to "design" my own. I guess that anything worth doing is probably not going to be easy. Sounds like I will be better off letting those who know do the hard stuff. : : :


Jon

Or learning ;-) :

[JonMarsh]

"Holy grail in the outhouse" sounds like it would be just that. Thank you for you quick reply. I was looking for an "easy" way to "design" my own. I guess that anything worth doing is probably not going to be easy. Sounds like I will be better off letting those who know do the hard stuff. : : :


Jon

It just takes time, study, and interest. One possibilty I'm thinking of is preparring DCS2496 info for more projects in the future.

Now, I wouldn't want to discourage you from experimentation- for the money, it's a good deal. Start with a two way, though- look at a few established designs, try emulating them and playing with them to get a bit of a feel, but also study the engineering concepts behind things.

All things come it time. About a year ago or so in one post ThomasW and I recounted how many speakers I'd designed since I knew him up to that point- it was about 50 specific projects I could remember. Since then I'm working on a few more, but would like to wrap up on speakers for a little while so I can go back to electronics- I'm really more a wires and sparks kind of guy than a wood worker. I have a couple of serious projects started about three years ago that I have had no time for- just amplification stuff.

An important thing to decide is how much you want to get into figuring out how to design and create speaker systems, versus how much you just want some nice speakers to listen to at home. Big difference in how you go about things...

~Jon

[clearwaterms]

are there any programs out there that can take all of the driver measurements and design basic cross overs designs, and spit out a base, to which you can adjust it and tweak it?

[cjd]

I've been underwhelmed by the systems put together using the DCX every single time I've heard one. Great components, but lifeless and not all together.

I think they're superb tools for doing really good sub integration and room correction all in one. And for prototyping.

All those speaker cables, all those amps, and goodness knows what happens if it loses support, dies, and you have expensive drivers with no crossover all the sudden.

C

[Branwell]

Hi Jon,

If you have measuring gear and read up a little, its possible that you will get a reasonable sound after some experimentation with the DCX, but its not like you can stuff a box with drivers, set crossover points and expect a great sound.

However, if you are interested in learning about speakers and how different points, slopes, time alignments and phase effects sound, then doing as you propose is probably a great idea. I learned more about the effect on sound of crossover alignments in two weeks with a DCX than I had in 10 years with passives. Its just so quick and easy to experiment with.

At to absolute sound quality, I have a DCX and a DEQX and while they sound great, my current system is a 3 way active passive hybrid. After much experimentation, I ended up with a passive crossover providing mid to tweeter integration.

Branwell

[JonMarsh]

All those speaker cables, all those amps, and goodness knows what happens if it loses support, dies, and you have expensive drivers with no crossover all the sudden.

C

Exactly my feelings. OTOH, I'm not a huge fan of ASP approaches like SL's Orion. Still mostly prefer passive, though I can see the logic of biamp and the rest passive, with custom equalization as needed in the electronics (see my Arvo Legacy update, for example).

OTOH, if you can do it all with one well designed passive that's going to have the long term reliability of an anvil, well, something in me that doesn't like the product of the year syndrome we're afflicted with these days really likes that.

BUT, I'm excited about prototyping up my Arvo Isiris and the M12ta and M10ta and the new CC three way- almost have a dedicated setup for that, with an Aragon 8008 X3 (three channel amp, balanced inputs) and the DCX2496. The trick will be to see how close I can come to the Duelund transfer functions.


~Jon

[Doug Lockwood]

If you have measuring gear and read up a little, its possible that you will get a reasonable sound after some experimentation with the DCX, but its not like you can stuff a box with drivers, set crossover points and expect a great sound.

Very true. In general, you can get a listenable crossover very quickly. Doing better is a bit more challenging.

However, if you are interested in learning about speakers and how different points, slopes, time alignments and phase effects sound, then doing as you propose is probably a great idea. I learned more about the effect on sound of crossover alignments in two weeks with a DCX than I had in 10 years with passives. Its just so quick and easy to experiment with.

I agree completely. This is especially true if you design a 3 way with woofer and tweeter that could be a 2 way, then add a wide range mid.
My first attempt was a 3 way with 2 NSB 4" as mid-range drivers, a Dayton NT20 and a Pair of 12" bargain basement woofers all on an open baffle. Just fun to listen to.
My backup plan in case of the demise of the DCX 2496 is to use Soundeasy emulation on my PC as an active crossover.
My experience is that listenable results are easy, and very good results are possible, along with valuable learning. Also, active crossovers will enable driver combinations that are simply not feasible passively.

YMMV

Doug