Natalie P's are finished..but

[Exocer]

I'd like to protect the finish with some type of clearcoat. This is completely unkown territory for me, so any advice would be much appreciated!

[Inu_Yasha]

Did you make your nat P's out of birch? I'm considering using birch for my Nat P's.

[BigJim_inFLA]

Looks like oak ply to me. Very nice job :T but how do they sound?

[BigJim_inFLA]

As far as the clearcoat goes I like using polyurethane. Very durable. You can get spray on, brush on, or wipe on. I like the wipe on variety. Any thought to staining them first?

[Exocer]

Thanks for the compliments, and they sound GREAT. They impress me day after day...

This picture actually gives them a washed out look...in person they have a much more redish look. Much nicer IMO.
Inuyasha - they're Red oak.

BigJim_inFLA- Yeah good guess on the Oak. Its actually Red Oak ply found at HD in 2'x4' handy panels. Nothing special but a joy to work with compared to MDF,Looks better than MDF, and is very inexpensive at $15 a sheet. 4 sheets was enough wood for my many errors ( I made about 4 front baffles, and 3 rear baffles because of errors). Thanks for the clearcoat suggestion.

Anyway, i've given thought to staining them. Clearcoating/staining are two things I know absolutely nothing about. Luckily I have a bunch of spare peices of wood to try out different stains...My only problem is the fact that these speakers have been the same color for so long now, i've gotten used to it, and really like them the way they are.

[RobP]

Give this stuff a try,

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5189

It will take multiple applications, but the result will be like that of very fine furniture.

[Brian Walter]

I concur with Robert P. (Soundgravy), the General Finishes Seal-a-Cell works really nice. Min-wax wipe on poly works very similar and is recommended quite often, but I personally like the Seal-a-Cell better. I just recently used Varathane water based polyurethane and really like the way it worked. I sprayed it on and it dried in about an hour, so you could put on several coats in an evening. IMHO, it worked much better than the Min-wax water based poly that I tried previously.

Whatever you do, make sure you practice on scraps until you get the combination that you like. Make sure you follow all of the finishing steps on your practice piece from sanding to final clear coat, don't skip anything and make sure you do exactly the same on your speakers.

I would suggest that you start sanding with 80 grit then 120 and finally 180 or so, there is no need to sand any finer if you are going to put on a polyurethane varnish. If you choose to use a water based finish, wet down you speakers with a spray bottle or damp rag to raise the grain (after you have sanded your speakers). Let them dry and then do a final sanding with 180 grit to remove the raised wood fibers. Vacuum the surface and apply 2 coats of poly, letting it dry between coats. I don't like to do any sanding until I have applied at least 2 coats of clear, especially if you stain first, others may disagree, but that's what works best for me. Sand lightly with a sanding block using 350 to 400 grit sandpaper. Sand just enough to remove the dust nibs and get a flat surface. Then wipe the surface off with a rag dampened with mineral spirits and give it 15 minutes or so to evaporate and apply the 3rd coat. If you desire more coats, sand, wipe and re-coat as many extra times as you desire. If you use a water based finish, do not wipe down with a tack rag, as it could cause the finish to bead up.

If you choose to use the wipe on oil based poly's, like the Min-wax or Seal-a-Cell, simply follow the directions on the can and you will come out fine. For a beginner, I think the wipe on finishes are nearly ideal, except they take several coats to get a decent build up, and it takes several hours to dry between coats. I think I've said enough, but you did say you didn't know much about finishing.

Brian Walter

[dCraig]

Yup. General Finishes. Finishes generally quite nice. :lol:

[oxcartdriver]

I just finished my walnut veneer on the modula MTM's with the Min-wax wipe on poly gloss finish. Seemed to go on well, and dried in about 2-3 hours. I work from home so I could get about 3-4 coats of finish applied per day.

My recommendation is to keep each coat thin. The min-wax wipe on poly is really a thin liquid and runs very easily on vertical surfaces. I used cheese cloth for applying the wipe on poly.

I tried steel wool, 200grit, 400grit, and 600grit sand paper. I liked the 400 grit sand paper between coats the best. The steel wool was easy to use, but some steel fibers seemed to become embedded in the finish and removing the steel fibers after using steel wool was a tough. The 200grit sand paper was a bit coarse, while the 600 grit sand paper was just to fine.

At 7 coats things started to look good with a noticable gloss finish. I ended up with 9 coats.

[Brian Walter]

At 7 coats things started to look good with a noticeable gloss finish. I ended up with 9 coats.

Personally, if you need 7 - 9 coats to get the build up you want, I'd start with a few brush or spay on coats of regular poly to get the build and then use the wipe-on poly for the final coat. The main advantage of the wipe-on finishes is that you can get a smooth finish similar to spraying, without spraying.

Again, this is just a personal opinion, but I like to use wipe-on finishes when I want a thin build up, more like an oil finish and when I want a thicker finish, I use the thicker brush on poly. You can get a good build fairly quickly going that route and if you sand it smooth with a sanding block before a final coat or 2 of wipe-on poly, you'll never know that the first coats were brushed on.

Brian Walter

[oxcartdriver]

Thanks for the tip on a combo finish Brian, I'll give that a crack on my next veneering project.

[big_ezy]

I would suggest that you start sanding with 80 grit then 120 and finally 180 or so, there is no need to sand any finer if you are going to put on a polyurethane varnish.

I wouldn't recommend using 80 grit sandpaper on plywood. I only use 80 grit if I am changing the shape of my workpiece. For smoothing plywood I would not go coarser than 120 and might start with 150. It is easy to sand thru the outer veneer of plywood with coarse sandpaper.

Earl

[Brian Walter]

I wouldn't recommend using 80 grit sandpaper on plywood. I only use 80 grit if I am changing the shape of my workpiece. For smoothing plywood I would not go coarser than 120 and might start with 150. It is easy to sand thru the outer veneer of plywood with coarse sandpaper.

Earl

That's a good point. Not knowing what condition the surface is in I thought he might need to clean up the joints a little, but you are correct it is very easy to sand through the veneer with 80 grit paper. With a plywood or veneered surface, I would probably only use 150, maybe up to 220 grit. If I was going to use an oil finish I go finer, but with a poly type finish 150 to 180 is enough.

Brian Walter

[Stoney]

What type of sander do you guys recomend?

[Rolex]

My favorite sander is a Porter Cable Random orbit for most things. Otherwise I use a 1/6th sheet palm sander...

Regarding finishes, if you are able to use a spray lacquer, that would be my finish of choice. Not everyone has accessibility to an airless sprayer. But, this by far is the nicest clear coat finish I have ever used. Hard, durable, dries quick, doesn't yellow, lasts a long, long time. So smooth, like an automotive paint finish. That is my finish of choice on almost all my projects. On very rare occasions I will use a wipe on oil finish when I want a natural look on cherry or walnut. But, lately, I've been using a pre-catalyzed lacquer on those as well.

[Martyn]

When you do your stain or finish tests, be sure to apply it to the edge of a plywood scrap as well as to the faces - some finished will darken the edge grain much more than the face grain, which might not give you the appearance you want.

[Exocer]

Woah
To all of you, thanks for the great advice! Way more answers than I asked for.

Has anyone here stained a red oak veneer before?

[BigJim_inFLA]

Woah
To all of you, thanks for the great advice! Way more answers than I asked for.

Has anyone here stained a red oak veneer before?

Yes I have. Pics can be found here:

WMTW Center

6 coats of Minnwax Golden Oak stain and 4 coats of Minnwax hand rubbed satin poly.

[dlneubec]

This is just my opinion, for what it's worth.

When you use a heavy poly coat, sand it, add another heavy poly coat, etc. you usually completely lose the grain of the wood. If you want to go for the dipped in plastic look that you see on wood table tops in restaurants, then that is the way to go. If you want a fine furniture looking finish, then IMHO, you have to go with many extremely thin coats so as to maintain the grain of the wood.

I use wipe on poly, but cut it with a 50/50 mix of poly with naptha. It puts on a very thin coat and and dries extremely quickly, often in 1/2 hour, an hour at the most, as the naptha evaporates very quickly. You sand lightly, usually with a 400 grit or so between coats and after 5-7 coats you will usually have a very deep looking finish, yet it still looks like wood. You can still see ins and outs of the gain on the surface, so the wood does not have that dipped in plastic look.

Often I will use a boiled linseed oil, again mixed 50/50 with naptha and put 3-5 coats of this on first. The BLO really brings out the color in most woods and makes them look warmer. You wipe the excess off with a clean rag after each coat and usually, depending on weather conditions and teperature, you will be able to do the next coat within 1-2 hours also. Let it dry for a few days before moving on to the poly/naptha finish.

Below is an example of that type of finish.

[oxcartdriver]

Often I will use a boiled linseed oil, again mixed 50/50 with naptha and put 3-5 coats of this on first. The BLO really brings out the color in most woods and makes them look warmer.

With the linseed oil do you see the surface texture well after the BLO/poly combination? Have you tried this combination on walnut veneer?

I'm about to veneer my WTMW center&towers this weekend and plan to start the finish next week. I may experiment with a slightly different finish on the TMWW towers versus the Center. Lots of ideas here, and I love to experiment.

[Martyn]

I rather like Deft Danish Oil. I haven't used it on oak veneer, but I recently used it a some solid mahogany which has an open grain like oak. Again, thin coats are essential, but the stuff dries quickly so that you can re-coat within an hour. You just keep going until you reach the sheen that you want. Just follow the instructions to the letter. I'll probably use it on the next speakers I build.

[SteveCallas]

Those are some old school Nikes

[Exocer]

Personally I am going after the "dipped in plastic" type of finish. At this point I am leaning towards something like BigJim's stain, but i'd like my results to be a tad bit lighter. When it comes to veneer I am probably the least picky person out there. My main goal is to somehow protect the finish I have...but this brings up another question. Would a clearcoat darken the natural color of the veneer?

Those are some old school Nikes

Yep, the grey ones are airmax 90's The blue and white ones are not THAT old, but old :P Either way, wearing size 13.5 sux. Luckily i found them in 13, close enough

[Biff]

tung oil

My pref is start with thinned tung oil for a couple coats, wipe on, buff excess, you can do multiples as soon as dry to the touch which is fairly quick with thinned coats. Then build as many as desired of full strength - I will go 6 or 8 on hardwood, 4 or so on veneers, then let sit for a couple days to really harden and do a final rubdown with steel wool and thinner. Texture shows, but very hard and translucent finish. Tung oil is self solvent, too, so unlike urethanes IF the big scratch comes it is very easy to touch up.

[dlneubec]

With the linseed oil do you see the surface texture well after the BLO/poly combination? Have you tried this combination on walnut veneer?

I'm about to veneer my WTMW center&towers this weekend and plan to start the finish next week. I may experiment with a slightly different finish on the TMWW towers versus the Center. Lots of ideas here, and I love to experiment.

Yes, that's the idea, you can still see the surface texture, which is what I meant by saying you can still see the grain. I've not tried it on walnut, but I see no reason it won't work as well as cherry, maple of oak that I've used it on.

[JonW]

I use wipe on poly, but cut it with a 50/50 mix of poly with naptha.

What brand poly do you use? I've had good luck with Zar, but it does yellow more than I'd like.

And how much are you thinning the poly with the naptha? Did you mean a 1:1 mixture of polyoly/naptha, this being 75% polynad 25% naptha?

Thanks!

[ThomasW]

Jon if you use the H2O based poly's they don't yellow like the solvent based ones...

[JonW]

Thanks Thomas. Yeah, I did read about that. The Zar poly is great because it really smooths out on the second coat. But it's got a yellow color to it. I used that on my sub and shelves. The CAB acrylic lacquer I've been using on my Modula MT's is totally clear and wonderfully shiney, but very tough to get smooth. Maybe I'll try a water-based poly next.

[dlneubec]

What brand poly do you use? I've had good luck with Zar, but it does yellow more than I'd like.

And how much are you thinning the poly with the naptha? Did you mean a 1:1 mixture of polyoly/naptha, this being 75% polynad 25% naptha?

Thanks!

I last used Minwax wipe-on poly and though I heard bad things, it worked very well and still looks the same several months later. What I meant was a 1:1 mix or 50% naptha, 50% poly. You can do it with standard poly but you need to do a 2:1 or 3:1 naptha to poly mix.

[dlneubec]

Jon if you use the H2O based poly's they don't yellow like the solvent based ones...

One problem with water based poly is that sometimes they do not go over all types of stain, if you are using stain. I put some over a mahogany stain one time and had some serious problems with the combination. Later I saw some fine print that indicated not to use it over that color stain. Oddly enough, I think it was the stain can that said not to use water based poly over it, while the poly can made no mention of it.

[Brian Bunge]

I've used the BLO/Naphtha mix several times and love it. I've never tried thinning the poly with the naphtha though. I might have to try that on my subwoofer.

Also, I suggest finding a Wood You unfinished furniture store in your area and use their house brand wipe-on polys. They give a fine furniture finish whereas the Minwax stuff still looks plastic to me. If you can't find a Wood You, then go to www.olddads.com and see if they can put you in touch with someone in the area or if they or someone else will sell and ship you some.