Careers in Speaker Design

[strevo]

I am not sure where to post this thread, so maybe the moderators can move it to where it should be.
Due to the fabulous state of my current industry of employment (automotive supplier whose company is currently bankrupt along with many others), I am considering a career change. I have always been interested in home audio product design, speakers, components, etc. I am an Industrial Designer with a BFA from the venerable College for Creative Studies in Detroit, MI. What I am wondering is, do any of the high-end speaker manufacturers employ industrial designers, or is it all engineers? I am sure that the component side must use designers, but my interest really lies with the speakers. Is this something that I would need acoustical/electrical engineering education to do? Where can I find out any info about careers in audio product design? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
-Steve Warden

[knifeinthesink]

there are some job postings at the audio engineering society web site. Not much there.

Beyond that, and now Im speaking as a fellow creative professional (I'm a food and product photographer), I would put together an extremely professional promo pack, art directed and photographed professionally, showing off your work, with some blurbs spelling out the value of good product design, and send it to some of the principals or marketing heads at companies that interest you. Of course it would a good idea to have speaker designs in there.

My gut says companies doing the computer audio thing are the ones to go after.

The important challenge is to get it into there heads how you will make them make more money. Personally, I'd go for the engineer oriented companies, who dont really get it, and make them see that the Imac, Ipod, VW beatle, Canon elph, etc. actually sell in part because they have design that works, looks good, and, most importantly in my mind, differentiates their product in a competitive market.

Maybe Im telling you what you already know, but I thought Id throw it out there.

Good luck.

[Dennis H]

If you want an insider's advice, PM Deon Bearden on the TC Sounds forum. He has posted here on occasion. Deon is a DIYer turned pro and he worked as an engineer for Klipsch among other companies before moving to TC. You'll probably have to register for the TC forum. After you register, you should be able to click on his name in the thread below and PM him.

http://www.tcsounds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=381

[wildfire99]

Not to thread crap, but in a way what goes through my head when I ponder this question (and I've been interested in getting into the 'industry' myself before), is if it's really worth it. It seems like most corporations with ties to audio either want to make completely compromised (all bling and no zing) products for fast cash, or are focused entirely on 200% or higher markups in the "luxury" category where your design will move all of about a dozen units a year.

My first response seeing this yesterday was to suggest skipping industrial design and going straight into marketing, which is where the actual parameters of a product are set, and where the real "marching orders" for design come from. *shrug*

I guess what I'd do in that situation is to look for smaller companies where input is valued and pride is taken in the product, beyond what the price tag will say at Best Buy. Or, as knifey suggested, at a company that puts value in function and needs help with form, no marketing involved. Moving from an unappreciated position in auto parts into an unappreciated position with a big Corporation may not be fun.

(I thread crap as a creative professional who is tired of marketing people thinking that profits go up when you tick off a customer who was duped into buying something based solely on looks, and putting out product knowingly that has no substance at all. But at the same time, I see people who truly put pride into their work and offer their wares at decent prices, getting swamped out by Boses and Klipshes and Best Buyes.)

[Amphiprion]

I spent the better part of a year looking for audio jobs, and about all I got was form letters thanking me for my application (Tymphany's in particular was shitty). I've got a BS in electrical engineering with a 3.7 GPA. The *first* non-audio job I applied for (embedded systems design/prototyping) got me an in-person interview the day after my phone interview, and an offer two days after the face-to-face. It's an awesome job btw.

The sheer number of people (aka hobbyists) who want audio jobs is huge. The relative need for those people is small. Find a niche, or create something revolutionary. Don't go job shopping.

[Spanky Ham]

I remember reading an article about five years ago by Perry Sink(?) about this subject. He got a job with International Jensen doing OEM work mostly for the auto manufacturers. He said he liked the challenge of trying to design a driver on a strict budget. It was either in this article or maybe George Short that said most of the jobs in the high end companies are performed by either the owner or one guy. I guess it would be tough to break into that market. Personally if I owned a high end company then I wouldn't hire Mark or the OP (no offense). I would outsource it to someone like Linkwitz or Lynn Olsen etc. This would be much more cost effective plus if you get someone with name recognition then you can use that in your marketing.

From that article (I believe written in AudioxPress), the author did say that working in the industry took some of the joy out of the hobby. A good friend of mine, who is an audio distributor, used to judge some of those car audio competitions. While he likes audio, he doesn't seem to have much passion for it.

I don't know this industry that well so take my advice with a grain of salt. You may want to try to build a name for yourself kind of like Steve Callas with the LLT. From this, you may open up opportunities for yourself in the audio industry. Also, try to go to as many events and shows as possible to meet people in the industry.

[cobbpa]

My first response seeing this yesterday was to suggest skipping industrial design and going straight into marketing, which is where the actual parameters of a product are set, and where the real "marching orders" for design come from. *shrug*

(I thread crap as a creative professional who is tired of marketing people thinking that profits go up when you tick off a customer who was duped into buying something based solely on looks, and putting out product knowingly that has no substance at all. But at the same time, I see people who truly put pride into their work and offer their wares at decent prices, getting swamped out by Boses and Klipshes and Best Buyes.)

These are the reasons that make me really desire a job with an audio company once I'm out of college. I'm a hobbyist, understand some of the compromises, appreciate quality, and am a marketing major. But the chances are slim..just always have to have some ideal position to aspire to I suppose. How angry would Bose be if the new marketing hire voiced a desire for higher quality? HA :rofl:

[Rolex]

"the author did say that working in the industry took some of the joy out of the hobby"

I once talked with a high end dealer about his job. I thought the ultimate would be own a hi fi shop. You get to play with all the new equipment, and you are up on the latest and greatest from all the companies.

I asked him what kind of system he had at home. Thinking he had the best his shop offered. His response? "I do this all day long, I don't want to mess with audio gear after work also."

That was enough to turn me off. Almost any hobby you try to turn into work is just that, work.

[strevo]

Thanks for all the great responses. I definitely understand about transitioning a hobby into a job and losing that spark. I get that feeling every day in my current job. Coming from a love of cars, designing interior parts every day gets old fast. I am also one of those people who takes pride in his work, and strives to create the best product for both the "boss" and the consumers. I agree that, while I may get to make some cool looking stuff, I don't think I would want to work at a "Bose" type company, which pretty much cuts the jobs out there by probably 95% unfortunately. Also, as I mentioned, I am an industrial designer, which means for those of you who aren't familiar with ID, that I take ideas, and transfer them into some sort of visual product through design. I have a very limited engineering background, with my education being basically in art (BFA). This means that I would have to learn a lot (nearly all) of the engineering (acoustic and electrical) aspects of speaker design, unless I was working for someone solely as an aesthetic designer of their speakers. Ideally I would love to start that way, and slowly work my way into being able to design entire speakers myself, but unless I round up some people and start my own company, I don't see that likely to happen anywhere. In the words of cobbpa, "just always have to have some ideal position to aspire to I suppose". Perhaps it's something to best keep as a hobby, and maybe in 25 years when I retire I will be able to afford to venture out into designing and maybe even selling a few speakers.
-Steve

P.S. If anybody out there would like some help with their speaker design's aesthetics, I'd be willing to do a little work just for fun, when I have time, to see what we could come up with. As always, keep on building and have fun!

[knifeinthesink]

If I was going to pursue a "career" in this business, Id go on my own. That's not for everyone of course. I have a pretty strong feeling that there are a few glaring holes in the industry that the big players are acting slowly to fill.

Cheap, high performance drivers from china; IC amps that give performance on par with big $ amps for a few dollars; the dramatic shift to the computer and HD devices as the prefered music source; wireless devices; digital xo's; the vast amount of knowlege readily available to any who wants it. These things should be revolutionizing audio to a degree that, to my eyes, is not happening yet. Obvously there are aspects in which this has happened, such as the ipod and the PC, but it hasn't moved to the complete playback chain yet. Logitech is the only company that seems to me to have figured it out and is jostling for dominance in the market. they'll probably get it too, since no one else is really going after it, as far as I can tell.

Id like to see a small active loudspeaker using one of the really high quality National semiconductor chips, good drivers, like the daytons, beautiful visual design etc.

Everyone that ever listened to my little TB 3" speakers wanted them, and they were just raw MDF with truck bed liner. We're not dealing with audiofiles here, but thats not to say you can't go to those levels.

Im not in this industry. These are just my thoughts so make of them what you will.

David

[Jim85IROC]

"the author did say that working in the industry took some of the joy out of the hobby"

I once talked with a high end dealer about his job. I thought the ultimate would be own a hi fi shop. You get to play with all the new equipment, and you are up on the latest and greatest from all the companies.

I asked him what kind of system he had at home. Thinking he had the best his shop offered. His response? "I do this all day long, I don't want to mess with audio gear after work also."

That was enough to turn me off. Almost any hobby you try to turn into work is just that, work.

It all depends on your level of interest as well as your level of frustration. I worked at a stereo shop part time through college and I loved every minute of it, and all it did was increase my interest in the hobby. I couldn't get enough of it, and I still can't. But, I didn't have to run the business.

That brings me to my next example... the owner of that business was a down to earth sensible guy who was also an audio nut. I think he majored in music in college, and was familiar enough with the technology to easily explain the difference between a 1-bit and 24-bit DAC when I asked him. Him and his wife were both amature musicians that performed regularly, and he had a very high end rig at home (well beyond what he sold in the store) that he listened to often. I do believe that he loved his job, and had no problems enjoying audio as a hobby also.

[Rolex]

Jim, I think the store owner you speak of is few and far between. Likewise the person I'm thinking of majored in music (among other things) and is in love with audio. Just doesn't want to mess with it after he does all day long.

I know for a fact that if I played with audio gear all day long, I would not enjoy it at home. But...that's just me.

[mmoeller]

IMHO. If your looking for a design job right out of the gate with no experience, good luck. You might get it with the monster GPA like Mark, but for mere mortals, you have to break into the industry and show an apptitude for design. Take a job with an audio company production facility, shouldn't be too difficult with the industrial tech. background. Take on some responcibility to show your design knowledge, or gain a boat load of knowledge on how drivers are made. Would be invaluable in my mind. If your working for a good company they will see where your talent lies and hopfully give you a shot. If not, take the experience and look for a design job with a few years in the industry.
This is just kind of the way I got into my job now. I have a BSEE and was very interested in microwave and rf technology. My first job was a Production Engineer for an high speed oscillator company. I was babysitting production and fixing problems with the designs. I took it upon myself to make some changes in the product line design and manufacture and increase the success rate to over 90%. On some of the parts they even skipped testing because they didn't mind that 1 out of 1000 was bad and got returned. That was all in the first 6 months. At that point I was offered a job with the development group. SWEET! Got a nice pay increase and started designing from customer specs. as well as new tech.
That was just a start. I was able to parlay the design work into a new job in Signal Integrity Engineering. Electromagntics really. For a connector company. Another partialy customer driven part new product develeopment job.
Now I'm working in the Advanced Developement Department for the second biggest company in my field. Basically all new tech development. My dream engineering job. Working on things that most people won't see for 3-5 years. Just wonderful.

My advice is really just get a foot in the door. If you have any intelligence worth noting you'll manage to find yourself in a good spot. Baring bad luck. Break in. I've always wanted to work in audio as well, but it is definately not as wide open as other carreers. Good luck

[Mark Seaton]

I am not sure where to post this thread, so maybe the moderators can move it to where it should be.
Due to the fabulous state of my current industry of employment (automotive supplier whose company is currently bankrupt along with many others), I am considering a career change. I have always been interested in home audio product design, speakers, components, etc. I am an Industrial Designer with a BFA from the venerable College for Creative Studies in Detroit, MI. What I am wondering is, do any of the high-end speaker manufacturers employ industrial designers, or is it all engineers? I am sure that the component side must use designers, but my interest really lies with the speakers. Is this something that I would need acoustical/electrical engineering education to do? Where can I find out any info about careers in audio product design? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
-Steve Warden

Hi Steve,

I have a little different perspective on all of this as I finally dove into the business on my own about a year ago after slaving for others for a while.

The appropriate response to your question is to first give you the barrage of reasons why to NOT go into this business. The cases of people making a better living than they could in another, larger industry is the exception. Not everyone is suited to turn their passion/hobby into a carreer and job. Some wouldn't do anything else, some quickly start despising their past love. Full-time jobs with full benefits are not easy to find, and many who are star-struck in wanting to work in the business will work for less than you might find agreable. Let's also not forget all of the enthusiast run businesses that have a lot of passion and little planning. A good product/design in no way guarantees a healthy company, and long term stability is always something to question. In other words, the sane advice from most anyone in the business would be to run away fast...

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If you are still reading, and not yet dissuaded, welcome to the club.

Here's my take on how you might fit in:

1) If you want a full-time gig and more instant career change, you will have to look to the larger companies like Harman, Klipsch, SpeakerCraft, Sonance, etc., etc.

2) While the "names" of some manufacturers seem large, don't be fooled, very few qualify as "large" businesses. Too many don't yet realize that they don't have a suitable workload and revinue to justify having all of the necessary designers on staff full time. For smaller businesses with common product lineups and life-cycles, outsourcing and contract work can be a very wise approach and more easily justified in costs. If you don't have luck with the big companies or are not as interested.

3) ID is often one of the last things that gets brought into product design unless it is doen by the principals of the company. Don't get too worried about how much you do or don't know about speaker and acoustic design. The best ideas and least "me too" looking results come from those who aren't plagued with knowing how things are "supposed" to look or be done according to the tradition and past efforts. Depending on your abilities and presentation of them, there could certainly be a good deal of interest as there is certainly a need.

4) My strong suggestion would be to ease into this. Put together a small portfolio/body of work as well as maybe some example ideas or personal projects you don't mind showing. Start poking around in the industry at a trade show or two and through the forums. Moonlight and get some experience with design work for a few manufacturers and see what does and doesn't work well while you are not relying on this to pay bills. You'd be surprised how many designers have day jobs if they have a specialty.

Feel free to use or disregard any of the above advice. If you have some things together, I might be interested in taking a look. Feel free to PM or e-mail me.

Good Luck!

[strevo]

I forgot to add a link to my website http://www.wardendesign.com. It has a few samples from my portfolio. I'm currently working on updating it, since it's kind of been sitting idle since I got my current job. I also work in the advanced design department at my company (Collins & Aikman) you may have heard of us in the news lately for shutting down Ford's production line I helped to create our "Skunkworks" group which is mainly a think-tank like group of us who focus solely on generating new ideas. It can definitely be fun, but unfortunately, with the way things are going now, I don't see my company lasting a whole lot longer. The whole automotive supplier industry is being driven into the ground right now (no pun intended). Hopefully things will turn around though
-Steve