Need software/test equip advice.Teaching a basic audio class.

[agrippa]

I need some answers fairly quick. I have taught some industrial arts (high school) classes over the years. I mainly teach history, Government, and Geography. Any way, I have built speakers and subs with my students in the past. Simple stuff ... other peoples designs mostly (like all of my speakers). Now I have the opportunity to buy software and test equipment for speaker building and crossover design and have the students use it. I will only be able to buy one package but I have figured out how I would use it one just one computer. I have a small class (eight) and they will take turns after school with me or during my prep hour.
Now here is the question: Which package would provide the best sound design principles as well as being easy to use? Also, I would like to use this for a number of years so updates are important. I can spend a max of $200 (the less I spend here the more for test equipment)… I can get an education discount from Parts Express. I don’t know about anyone else ( madi, speakercity).
Also, what would be the minimum test equipment set up that I should use? Cost is unknown here.

Thanks,
GRIP

[tf1216]

I just purchsed V10 of SoundEasy used.

I am going to use this test setup:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/setup.html

This is one suggestion, it will some time to learn the software but there is a lot of good information on the web. Also, I joined the yahoo SoundEasy group. That is a good place to ask a question specific to SoundEasy.

[dyazdani]

You can get the standard version of LspCAD from IJ Data directly for exactly $200. I've used the demo version and there is a learning curve, maybe Thomas or Jon could better instruct you here.

PE's offering seems to be SoundEasy, I'm not familiar with that program...

I would think the minimum for a test rig would be a Behringer mic and one of the various mic preamps/power supplies (e.g. a MobilePre from MAudio) - again, my knowledge is limited here.

[agrippa]

Beat me to it... sounds like you're set, let us know how the class goes and post some project pics!

Ummm. not me.

[tf1216]

Some info here:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=19613&highlight=soundeasy+speakerworkshop

and here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66795

Your question has been asked numerous times. If you have free time look on diyaudio, htguide, maybe even audio circle or diymobileaudio for more info

[Jim85IROC]

Right now Parts Express has Soundeasy 12 on sale for $189 because 13 is probably on it's way. I just picked it up. Soundeasy's core functions that relate to speaker testing & design hasn't really changed much in the last bunch of versions from what I could see, so I don't expect that it would change much in 13 either. Most of the updates to the newer versions seem to relate more to ergonomics and bug fixes.

For the money, I felt it was worth getting version 12 instead of waiting for 13.

[agrippa]

[/QUOTE]
Your question has been asked numerous times. If you have free time look on diyaudio, htguide, maybe even audio circle or diymobileaudio for more info[/QUOTE]

true... but I am more concerned about a learning curve with students. Sound easy is one I am looking at. Also, The test equipment is a fairly big deal to me.

Thanks, I will look at post and web sites later. i am inbetween classes now.

[agrippa]

how does bassbox pro and xover pro stack up?.

it may be easier for my students.

I want something good but easy to use.

[agrippa]

Soundeasy seems to be most people's choice around here

[ThomasW]

Soundeasy seems to be most people's choice around here

No LspCAD is the program of choice. SoundEasy has a VERY steep learning curve.

Also there are a ton of excellent freeware tools available from FRD Consortium. All anyone needs to run them is Micro$oft Excel. Many people never buy any commercial software because the FRD programs are so good.

Even our local speaker building guru JonMarsh uses tools from FRD to augment LspCAD.

[Hank]

I will donate my LspCAD to you since you're a teacher. I bought it a year ago and loaded on my computer, then immediately found out that a new version was on the way. I sent an e-mail to the owner, telling him I had not used the program for design and wanted to trade/upgrade for the upcoming new version. Surprisingly, he said NO, the new version is very different and I would have to buy it. So, the program is on my computer and the manual is on my desk and I have used neither and won't spend any more money with him. I was about to take a look at SoundEasy that PE has on sale, but Thomas' comment about the learning curve has me worried. I'm about to get Microsoft Office Pro for my home computer, so I think I'll visit the FRD site some more and work with what's there via Excel until such time as I think I'll need a comprehensive design program.

[dyazdani]

Ummm. not me.

OOPS!!! Long day here, missed that...I deleted the post, reason: ignorance :lol:

I've enjoyed LspCAD the little I've used it. I also have the FRD tools, but haven't had much time to mess with them.

[agrippa]

I will donate my LspCAD to you since you're a teacher. I bought it a year ago and loaded on my computer, then immediately found out that a new version was on the way.

WOW!!! Very cool. That would mean I could put more money into test equipment plus buy a few new sanders for the woodshop. Holy crap it is not cheap though. are you sure... if you are I may be able to get you something that proves you donated it to a school and you may be able to get it as a tax write off.

Email me at paulp@vehs.org. if your offer is still good. If not, I will look over FRD Consortium. It looks a bit less user friendly. The schools web site is www.vehs.org if you want to know more about the school and me I am new to this school and I am taking over the Industrial Ed dept. It needs a bunch of help. I used to teach Ind Ed at a previous school.

[Jim85IROC]

I will donate my LspCAD to you since you're a teacher. I bought it a year ago and loaded on my computer, then immediately found out that a new version was on the way. I sent an e-mail to the owner, telling him I had not used the program for design and wanted to trade/upgrade for the upcoming new version. Surprisingly, he said NO, the new version is very different and I would have to buy it. So, the program is on my computer and the manual is on my desk and I have used neither and won't spend any more money with him. I was about to take a look at SoundEasy that PE has on sale, but Thomas' comment about the learning curve has me worried. I'm about to get Microsoft Office Pro for my home computer, so I think I'll visit the FRD site some more and work with what's there via Excel until such time as I think I'll need a comprehensive design program.

The problem with the FRD tools is that I'm not aware of any that will allow you to take your own measurements, which is the most important part of any of the available software packages. You can only do so much fooling around without measuring what you're building. Speaker Workshop is a free offering, but my understanding is that it makes using Soundeasy seem as easy as a Fisher Price See'n Say in comparison.

I'm in the beginning stages of learning soundeasy, and the manual absolutely sucks. Fortunately, John K has written a tutorial that takes you through a 2-way design from start to finish, and it's much better written than the manual. It takes you through step by step, which should be adequate to familiarize the user with the basics of the program. There's also a soundeasy discussion forum on Yahoo, as well as plenty of helpful users who can answer questions once you learn the basics on your own.

Perhaps it's not the best for a classroom environment where kids will only get a crash-course at best, but for a DIYer, it seems like the program has an awful lot to offer in exchange for that learning curve.

[ThomasW]

LspCAD V5 can be upgraded to V6

Current versions of LspCAD is USB 'dongle' locked to whatever PC the dongle is attached to. Older versions used a floppy disk lock.

Anyone with Excel can move FRD data between anyone elses computer that also has Excel. This means the students can take the data home and experiment with different models, if there's a home PC with Excel

For a good freeware in-room measurement program download Room EQ Wizard.

[cjd]

Speaker Workshop does a respectable job as well, though it's quirky. It's also free.

C

[agrippa]

LspCAD V5 can be upgraded to V6

Current versions of LspCAD is USB 'dongle' locked to whatever PC the dongle is attached to. Older versions used a floppy disk lock.

True. The students will be deisgning these one on one with me. Either during studyhall, after school, or some other time. It is a small class... I should mention we run a type of J term ( 2 week class, all day long). This is when I am doing much of this. They will have much of the design made in days leading up to this. Two weeks with 8 kids (who want to be there) designing and building speakers... and I get paid for it

Testing will be part of the class as well.
Also, If FDR isn't user friendly I will be in trouble as well as the students. I can't afford to have it not work right because of a stupid teacher (me). I hate to say it but I need user friendly.
I used to just use 3 or 4 speaker building handbooks and have the kids work out designs that way... wow, that is painful. I only cover the basics but I am hoping that the software will allow for better education as well as better speakers.

Thanks for the info. All good so far.

[dyazdani]

The schools web site is www.vehs.org if you want to know more about the school and me I am new to this school and I am taking over the Industrial Ed dept. It needs a bunch of help.

Cool...I went to high school in Int'l Falls, MN - I lived right next to Voyageur's National Park.

[tf1216]

I have to chime in and say that your class sounds like so much fun.

I know I did not have an appreciation for, what I like to call, real music in high school so if I could take the class now, I would : )

What got me so excited about high-end stereos was hearing my first one. It was amazing, it was quite the motivator. Best of luck to you.

[Dennis H]

Actually, Jeff B's Passive Crossover Designer for Excel is the easiest-to-use crossover design program there is and Unibox is the best box designer. And both are free from the FRD site. But you need a recent version of Excel on the school computer and you still need a measurement program. I'd say take Hank up on his offer for LspCAD, fiddle with them yourself and decide what's easiest for the students. Maybe LspCAD and maybe the FRD tools (assuming you have Excel.) You could use the measurement capability of LspCAD and the free tools from FRD if you thought that would be easiest for the students. RoomEQ Wizard is a nice free measurement program but it doesn't let you do windowed "quasi-anechoic" measurements like the utility included with LspCAD. It tends to measure the room as much as the speaker.

[ThomasW]

ARTA is an interesting little shareware program. The demo version is fully functional with the exception of loading and saving files. One can of course use a screen capture program like MWSnap 3 to save measurements, then use SPL Trace to input the data into Jeff B's Passive Crossover Designer.

[agrippa]

I will look in to FRD this weekend and other stuff. I keep typing it in as FDR... that is the history teacher in me.

[agrippa]

I got about 3 weeks to figure this out. A few more questions:

How does BASSBOX 6 PRO/X-OVER 3 PRO Stack up?
and
SPeaker Workshop? I just installed it so I will play with it for a bit here.

I guess I am looking for software for students who are new at this and a teacher who has rarely used software. I am going to the Iowa event in a couple weeks. Hopefully I will have this figured out by then.

Lastly, I looked into it, I can get a tax write off form for you Hank if you are still willing to donate LspCAD . You would need proof of purchase. I got a few ther donations from people (money and tools).

Thanks everyone,

[ThomasW]

BassBox doesn't offer anything that can't be done in Unibox for free. BB's interface is more user friendly that's about it.

Xover Pro may have improved I haven't looked at it in years. At one time it only created generic designs. I don't know if that's changed with newer releases.

[rj45]

other useful software

I'd also suggest Audacity (free, open source) software to generate
test tones, and possibly music snippets for loudspeaker testing.

Other SW that may be useful is:

PureBits Sample Champion
PureBits Sample Champoin

AudioTester
AudioTester SW

Oscope for windows
Oscope for windows
:T

[Hank]

Email me at paulp@vehs.org. if your offer is still good.

agrippa, I just sent you an e-mail. Send me your address and I'll mail it to you.
Best wishes with your class.
-Hank

[Brian Bunge]

Hank old man! How's it going?

I don't have your any of your email addresses handy so drop me a line so I can fill you in on the latest (getting married in less than 2 weeks, etc.).

Brian (aka Jawja Boy by way of FL these days)

[agrippa]

Email set. Thanks Hank

[Hank]

Brian, so you're gettin' hooked up, eh? Good luck to the jawja kid and wife!
I spotted you on yet another new forum the other day. You're going to have to get a regular job to support that new wife, so you'll need to exit a half dozen or so forums. :rofl: I'll send you an e-mail, bud.

agrippa: I'll check my e-mail when I get home.