Speaker design flow chart

[elambert]

Being a noob to speaker building, I decided to develop basically a flowchart to help me through the whole process. This all comes from the fact that I need some new mains, and later surrounds and center to complement my new A/V receiver. I picked up a HK AVR 635 at an exceptional price and it really has made my old speaker setup sound like absolute crap, or maybe I should say it really shows the weakness of my speakers. For example, on my old receiver (Yamaha HTR-5150) I had to set all the Bass and Treble tone controls to max, and with the new AVR I haven't adjusted them at all.

This flowchart is definitely up for input. I would build a pre-made, pre-designed speaker however I have yet to find one that fits what I want out of a system, at the price range I am looking at.

I have no ability to listen to higher end speakers of any type in my area. To give you an example, high end would be considered Best Buy and Circuit City. Not high by any means I'm afraid.

Some of the reasons for the Hivi Drivers are the visual appeal. My live-in girlfreind and mother of my baby doesn't care about size, space taken. Just as long as it's "pretty".

For your review the flowchart for what I am looking for.

1, Choose end goal
Full range system.
Low end F3 of 30hz.
For HT/70% Music/30% use
Large Tower Speaker

1a, choose alignment
MTMWW

2, driver choice / potential cross point
Hivi Drivers
M - M4N
T - RT1L, up for debate.
W - M8N/A
Box size, 3.061 - 3.5 ft^3, tune 29.33 hz

3, pick driver alignments
T - Sep'd
M - Sealed enclosure
W - Ported enclosure

4, Design/build box, order drivers

5, Measure driver in-box response

6, Design/build crossover

7. Measure Loudspeaker, tweak crossover

8, Enjoy!

Suggestions and input are welcome!

Thanks guys.

Ethan

[ThomasW]

Gotta spare $1K to spend on test equipment and software?

If not forget about the pretty gold cones, and build one of the designs in the Missions Accomplished section.

Or build these and use a sub.

http://home.comcast.net/~audio-worx/page113Tibor-MTM.html

[thylantyr]

My simple recipe to make a speaker for me, not to make a speaker to sell {two different flowcharts, IMO}.

1. Define the sound system goals.
2. Make a list of driver candidates.
3. Order and audition candidates.
4. Visualize driver integration {which ones mate with which ones?}
4. Build a cheap test box.
5. Use an active crossover to find driver synergy.
6. Spend alot of time listening and tweaking your active crossover.
[Digital crossover preferred]
7. Build your speaker.
8. Hard part -> Chosing to use the active crossover or to convert the system to passive.

You defined your goals, good.
You picked your drivers but are you sure those drivers
sound good without prior audition ? If you can't answer
this question, don't pass GO and collect the $200.

[elambert]

Please don't take the noob comment as being the standard helpless, unknowing noob statement. I am not completely helpless I do indeed have some test equipment coming in. And have methods for getting the software I need. Connections never hurt!

About the only thing that comes close to looking like what I want is the TMWW in the mission accomplished section. However, part of the reason I got interested in DIY audio was not to just build things, but to use my brain. I find this as a way to "stretch" my brain. My day job doesn't do it, and building someone elses's project wouldn't do it either I fear.

If I fail miserably, then so be it.

Take a look at most college students... they go to school for 4 years, memorize certain aspects of what they are majoring in, take a test, pass, then promptly forget what they "learned". That is not learning. You learn by trial, error, and if available, good teachers. Good teachers guide you to the answer, helping you to figure it out yourself, thus realizing the possibilities of finding more answers on your own. I realize I will fail. But my failures will ultimately result in success.

I am indeed old enough to realize my learning aptitudes, and I know what falls out of my realm of knowledge and what is only a step outside.

I want to build my own system, not because it will outperform another design, but I want to learn about what works and what doesn't and why. If you tell me it won't work, I want to know why. If you tell me it will, I want to know why. I could very easily go out and by a system that would meet my goals, but that would defeat the whole purpose of what I am trying to accomplish.

I was simply asking to check to see if my flow of design was correct.

[elambert]

Thy, thank you for your comments.

The drivers are still up in the air so to speak.

These were the drivers picked by FR plots etc. I did indeed plan on ordering some to test, and listen to. My PC has the capability of being an active XO to test the drivers together. That was my plan to order some, and run them through test boxes utilizing the PC XO.

From the research I've done, I don't believe anything short of a MTMWW or TMWW will achieve my goals and the specific sound I am looking for. There in lies the reason for me building my own speakers. A design by someone else may indeed meet their expectations but may not meet mine. Sound is a very subjective thing and I have been training my ear being a professional musician a long time.

[kano32]

Check out Brian's MTMWW 3-ways.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=11873

[Jed]

Please don't take the noob comment as being the standard helpless, unknowing noob statement. I am not completely helpless I do indeed have some test equipment coming in. And have methods for getting the software I need. Connections never hurt!

About the only thing that comes close to looking like what I want is the TMWW in the mission accomplished section. However, part of the reason I got interested in DIY audio was not to just build things, but to use my brain. I find this as a way to "stretch" my brain. My day job doesn't do it, and building someone elses's project wouldn't do it either I fear.

If I fail miserably, then so be it.

Take a look at most college students... they go to school for 4 years, memorize certain aspects of what they are majoring in, take a test, pass, then promptly forget what they "learned". That is not learning. You learn by trial, error, and if available, good teachers. Good teachers guide you to the answer, helping you to figure it out yourself, thus realizing the possibilities of finding more answers on your own. I realize I will fail. But my failures will ultimately result in success.

I am indeed old enough to realize my learning aptitudes, and I know what falls out of my realm of knowledge and what is only a step outside.

I want to build my own system, not because it will outperform another design, but I want to learn about what works and what doesn't and why. If you tell me it won't work, I want to know why. If you tell me it will, I want to know why. I could very easily go out and by a system that would meet my goals, but that would defeat the whole purpose of what I am trying to accomplish.

I was simply asking to check to see if my flow of design was correct.

Nicely put :T

Your flow of design makes sense to me. By the way my measuring equipment cost about $200 not including software or laptop computer. Speakerworkshop is free and works great.

Jed

[ThomasW]

This post...

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=142746&postcount=1

And this article....

http://pwp.t-3.cc/ttriff/M8aArticle/RoughDraftText.rtf

Should give you some insight as to the process..

A couple hints, 1) think of planar tweeters as being supertweeters, not tweeters. So use a higher XO point than that recommend by the mfgr if you want long life from them. 2) a 4" mid will be beaming at frequencies that provide a seamless match between it and a planar tweeter.

[Brian Bunge]

Yes, I think my MTMWW would fit the bill nicely. Much better than the proposed MTMWW using 4's for mids. You should have come along last year while I was living not too far from Macon and Warner Robins. You could have taken a listen to them then!

[Marzen]

I would say 'jump in and get your feet wet', but it's more like 'pull down your pants and slide on the ice'. You can find most of your answers online & in 3 books. It surely isn't cheap by any means ($ or time), but it's the journey that's really rewarding for me, more so than the destination.
Look for general info on design criteria like beaming, box Q, center to center driver distance, recommended crossover points, midrange bandwidth, filter order slopes, etc and jot down notes specific to your design. By the time you work your way thru the software & ensuing choices you'll have a better idea of what you want to achieve technically. Then post your design for review and solicit some feedback.
Oh, you may be disappointed in your pc based xo, at least in regard to the upper octaves. I was at least, ymmv.
-Ward

[knifeinthesink]

I have the same attitude as you expressed in your second post. I want to learn and enjoy the process

That said, I dont want to waste hundreds of dollars on drivers for a speaker Im not going to enjoy. I try and make plans using drivers that already have well documented projects. That way, if it sucks, I can pull it apart and build someone elses design and be happy.

I also think its a good idea to have a reference speaker to compare to. Everything I have built so far, including the crap, sounded AMAZING at first. Builders pride i guess. Its only when I put them next to something better that I would start to notice what I didnt like. Having the option to assemble one of the sticky projects might be useful.

Whatever you do, have fun, and say goodbye to your free time and cash. This can be very addictive.

[thylantyr]

Thy, thank you for your comments.

The drivers are still up in the air so to speak.

These were the drivers picked by FR plots etc. I did indeed plan on ordering some to test, and listen to.

Don't limit your driver candidates just based on fr plots, like I said some of the best *sounding* drivers may
have the least desireable plots. I think making a list of
interesting and unique drivers is a nice plan, buy one of each, and spend some time with them. No need for movies or dinner, the drivers are easy :P :lol:

[elambert]

Don't limit your driver candidates just based on fr plots, like I said some of the best *sounding* drivers may
have the least desireable plots. I think making a list of
interesting and unique drivers is a nice plan, buy one of each, and spend some time with them. No need for movies or dinner, the drivers are easy :P :lol:

That indeed sounds like an excellent plan. I think I may just do that.

[elambert]

Oh, you may be disappointed in your pc based xo, at least in regard to the upper octaves. I was at least, ymmv.
-Ward

What kind of issues did you have? I have been following the PC XO thread intently over on DIYaudio and I know some of the issue Shinobiwan was having. I guess being a computer guy makes me think that if an active XO can be bought, then it should also be able to be built.

[elambert]

Yes, I think my MTMWW would fit the bill nicely. Much better than the proposed MTMWW using 4's for mids. You should have come along last year while I was living not too far from Macon and Warner Robins. You could have taken a listen to them then!

You know Brian, I had seen your project and had very much considered it myself. For some reason I didn't think the drivers you were using were quite as large as they are! They look deceptively small in the pics. I am still contemplating options. Like I have said, to my gf, it doesn't matter how big they are, or how many there are... just as long as their "pretty" I tell you, I lucked out with this one!

I wish I could have heard yours. I was around last year, just not on this board. I didn't find this one until about 6 months ago.