HT in a new sunroom

[DS-21]

My mother is adding a large (21' x 40' I think) sunroom onto her house, and to ensure that her new don't-even-want-to-ask investment is actually used she wants to put an "entertainment system" in it. While there are a lot of components involved, the only thing I'm interested in discussing is the speaker setup. The room is going to be highly non-ideal for audio, having oak floors (with some area rugs) and windows covering probably 95% of three walls. Only the wall on which the LCD and front speakers will be mounted will be opaque. Moreover, placement is an issue. Basically, she wants to hear the audio and not see anything. That means building into the wall/ceiling, making cool approaches like OB or line sources out of the question. Lastly, there's a cost issue. Unlike me, she doesn't see the point of spending lots of money on audio, though in her defense she destroyed her hearing going to rock concerts when she was in high school and college so I guess that makes some sense. I think she'd balk at more that $500 for receiver and speakers/drive-units. At any rate, hopefully that's enough setup to make my questions meaningful.

1) Directivity. I assume, given the presumed liveness of the room, that I want as narrow directivity as possible. That means widebanders that are maybe just a hint soft on top and maybe with a bit of a bump in the midrange for vocal intelligibility.

2) Driver size. My gut reaction was to go with three Vifa 10BGS's (whatever they're called Stateside, I never can remember) across the front and maybe Aura NS4's for surround, all running from 120Hz up and with the surrounds mounted in the ceiling and firing into diffusers. The 10BGS is a really sweet sounding driver in the midrange, for its dynamic limitations. (Before I moved up to 12" Tannoys and an XLS12, I used them at my desk...) However, considering the size of the place and the likely power source - a Panasonic XR57, or perhaps I'll get one of those and give Mom my XR55 - I'm wondering if they'll get loud enough and wondering what will get loud enough on ~80wpc without sounding like garbage. Something like the Visaton B200 or Seas H1333 is out for cost reasons, but surely there are other options that look cool.

3) Bass output. Mom's going to save some money because I have far too many woofers. Many of which I'm not currently using in the six subwoofers currently populating my abode. (Not that my insane woofer glut stopped me from seeing what is hopefully a killer deal on a TC2+ 15 and buying it anyway....) However, I'm also wondering if a decent-sized bass subsystem - say, twin JL 15W6's mounted on the floor and using the new storage room underneath the sunroom for an enclosure - might not just shake the poor room down. Not only that, but the only explosions the system will ever be asked to reproduce would be from BBC World News or CNN. Also, Mom will be listening to some vinyl on the system and won't be bothered with switching in a rumble filter. So Maybe something like three Vifa M18W0-09-08's mounted behind the couch in a bandpass enclosure would be enough for this system.

3) Given the fact that nothing in a room that's all glass on three sides is going to sound decent anyway without using giant and expensive pro drivers to get the directivity needed, should I just throw up my hands and tell her to buy a cheap HITB or a base model receiver and three pairs of Insignias?

[cjd]

Wow, you're worried about audio placement in a sunroom?

Unless you've got darned good shades, you're gonna get horrible picture on an LCD in a sunroom any time the sun's, you know, shining in. Unless it's behind the LCD.

You can get fairly decent in-walls for not a whole lot that sound to me like they'd do the job well enough. Or some small speakers to mount up near the ceiling.

C

[joecarrow]

Yeah, not everything boils down to designing crossovers

I think there's a lot of possibility with the room acoustics. Does she live where it gets cold in the winter? Are there neighbors? Windows can have window coverings, and if those include decently thick (not sheer gauze) cloth, you could end up with a reasonably nice effect. Don't forget that in addition to absorbing high frequency sound, there is some good effect to be had from breaking it up and diffusing it. Book shelves, patterned walls with columns/decorative brick work, even plants can keep all of the sound from being bounced uniformly. Shutters or blinds might also have some positive effect.

I'd concentrate much more on treating the room than on high directivity speakers. This doesn't sound like a case where a tiny sweet-spot in the middle of the couch is going to be well received. Also, if you saw the recent post titled Aeropanel Acoustic Absorber, something like that could help the room and look good at the same time. Thread's here:

https://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21646

Regarding the receiver- I just ordered my SA-XR55 from Amazon last night. If I could listen at higher volumes I would have purchased the XR57, but I'm in an apartment so I figured that dual-amping the fronts with 5.1 won't really buy me much performance.

Final word- a lot of people actually LIKE Bose. They're not audiophiles, and the sound systems actually fit their lifestyles. The remote controls aren't very confusing, and there isn't a big learning curve. You can surely get better acoustics and clearer vocals than Bose, but your comment about how the bass output won't be doing many explosions other than on CNN is, in my opinion, a good observation about the intended customer/user/audience.

[DS-21]

Unless you've got darned good shades, you're gonna get horrible picture on an LCD in a sunroom any time the sun's, you know, shining in. Unless it's behind the LCD.

Actually, even my cheap 30" LCD (PowerSpec/WinBook, a house brand of a local computer store) seems to do OK even with light from the skylight beating down on it. It does better than an old Sony trinitron picture tube did there, at least. Then again, I'm a music guy and not a picture guy, so as long as it's there and has few annoying artifacts I'm happy.

You can get fairly decent in-walls for not a whole lot that sound to me like they'd do the job well enough

True, but they'd still be more expensive than just putting the 4" Vifa widebanders on painted MDF disks, and if nothing else are much more poorly made. Also, Mom's general preference is for as few brand names cluttering up her space as possible, and all of the in-walls I've seen have logo'ed grilles.

I think there's a lot of possibility with the room acoustics. Does she live where it gets cold in the winter? Are there neighbors? Windows can have window coverings, and if those include decently thick (not sheer gauze) cloth, you could end up with a reasonably nice effect.

She's in the mindless 'burbs outside of Atlanta. There are neighbors, but they're far enough away - 3000 ft^3 house on a 2/3 acre corner lot with lots of dogwoods and other trees, not a modern 5000 ft^3 McMansion on a quarter-acre - that they won't be able to see the room from the outside. Also, at least for now the whole point of her putting in a sunroom is to let the sun into the room. Next year her project will probably be extensive window treatments to keep the damned sun out.

Don't forget that in addition to absorbing high frequency sound, there is some good effect to be had from breaking it up and diffusing it.

I fully agree, and hopefully she'll at least put some plants in there.

Regarding the receiver- I just ordered my SA-XR55 from Amazon last night. If I could listen at higher volumes I would have purchased the XR57, but I'm in an apartment so I figured that dual-amping the fronts with 5.1 won't really buy me much performance.

Amazon still has XR55's? Good to know. But you're not losing anything except for soon-to-be-obsolete HDMI ports by not going with the '57 from what I understand. The "dual amp" feature does not increase headroom one bit, at least on my ~91dB/w/m Tannoy dual concentrics. I'm quite fond of the performance the XR55 offers for the money, though I'd gladly pay $2k for something with the same components and build quality but a high-quality room correction system built in.

Final word- a lot of people actually LIKE Bose.

My mother has dignity, though. Those cheap cardboard-and-plastic cubes do not meet her standards for aesthetics or build quality. By contrast, looking online she was moderately lukewarm about the aluminum KEF ovals and until I told her the price she was pretty high on those adorable Tannoy Arenas.

Good point about the remote, too. I hadn't thought of that. She definitely would just throw up her hands at my 4-remote HT. Maybe I should buy her a Harmony as a room-warning gift. Those work with Macs too, right?