"Budget" 5.1 HT build

[hex2bit]

I'm new to these forums, and fairly new to DIY audio. I've done some car audio and know the basics but none of the complicated theory. I'll need some help on crossover design and such.

Anyway, what I'm looking at doing is a complete home theater setup for under $1,000. This means speakers and receiver. I'm also looking at keeping the speakers fairly compact and the sub "hidden".

Here's what I got:
-- Speakers (X5) --
Tweeter: Seas 27TBFCG (~$30) [link]
Mid: Dayton DA135 ($14) [link]
Box, parts, XO: (~$30)

This will provide a set of speakers for <$75 each. Plus they will be fairly compact with the 5.5" drivers. I decided to get a decent tweeter because it has a big impact on the sound quality.

-- Subwoofer --
Woofer: Dayton DVC385-88 ($130) [link]
Plate Amp: Dayton SA240 240W ($110) [link]
Box, parts, etc (~$90)

This will provide a nice low-end for a reasonable price. Plus I plan to spend a little more on the cabnet design to make it a table/receiver cabnet. My receiver can sit inside and I can put my center and other things on top.

This puts me at around $700 for all the speakers. That leaves me with around $300 for a receiver. I'm not sure what to get for a receiver yet... or what watt I should be looking for per channel.

I want your suggestions on this setup, including speaker recommendations and receiver recommendations. I don't really want to go for a higher price on the speakers and I want them fairly compact.

I was originally thinking of some much higher-end speakers but I can't afford that stuff, especially when you start multiplying it by 5 So I decide to cut back a little on my initial design and keep it reasonable. I was looking at more of a budget sub setup but thought it wasn't worth it to save $100 buck and have something with a much lower "ability".

Also a few notes about my setup...
My room this will be used in is around 12' X 12', with the left side openning into a larger rec area. So it's like the following where the X's are in the 12' X 12' area that my home theater will be, and the left part of the room is a larger open area. I'm sitting along the bottom wall, facing the top wall.

|        |
 |        |______
 |         XXXXX |
 |         XXXXX |
 |_________XXXXX | 

How's that for art

I will also have a projector displaying about a 110" picture that pretty much fills that top wall and a HTPC to control this all. he he :lol:

So, if you have speaker suggestions, take into account the room setup. Also note that I will be placing the speakers near walls, so when we get more into the box and crossover design, that will have to be taken into consideration.

Thanks!!!!

[sYkone]

Suggestions? Sounds like you pretty much know what you want. I am working with about the same financial constrants and here is what I am doing:

5 - 7 Triunes @ ~ $70 each

Panasonic XR55 @ $230 from Amazon.com (was skeptical but read a lot of reviews and after hearing it, now feel I made a very good purchase)

The sub I am stuck on. My room is 13' X 13' and closed off. I have looked at the Quattro 15 or DVC 15/240W but would like to have the Par. EQ on the HSA500. And the RSS390HO is only $10 more than the DVC 15 right now. The RSS315 would be enough but I am not too concerned about box size so...

I guess I don't have any advice really, except, check out the panny. For that kind of money I don't think much else can compete.

[morbo]

I think box/xo parts will cost more then $30. I would look at a cheaper (but still nice) tweeter like the North D25, take a look at Zaps tweeter test:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

The Seas tweet is great, but a bit expensive for a budget project IMHO, especially if you have to scrimp on the XO because of it. Also, IMHO the midwoofer is more important than the tweeter as it covers far more of the musical range, but that may be just my preference. In any case the midwoofer you've chosen is great for the price range.

I second the reccommendation for a Panny XR55/57 (assuming mostly digital sources), there is no better budget receiver IMHO.

[MrPorterhouse]

I second the reccommendation for a Panny XR55/57 (assuming mostly digital sources), there is no better budget receiver IMHO.

At that price, the Panasonic is an excellent value.

[joecarrow]

I myself am looking at the Panasonic XR-55 or XR-57 in the near future. I'll probably wait until I get the check for some back-pay to make sure the financial picture is rosey, but everything I've read about these receivers is very encouraging.

I'll be using the Modula MTs in stereo mode for a long time, but might add some Aura NS3-193's as surround speakers before a year's gone by.

I think you've got a decent idea with the speakers, but if I was going for "budget" 5.1 sound, I wouldn't rule out paper cones for a cheaper crossover. The only thing I'd warn against is an MTM configuration, since you'll want to keep impedance above 6 ohms for that receiver (or any budget receiver, really).

My strategy is to start with high quality stereo sound, and eventually upgrade. I want to keep my Modula MTs as my fronts until move into a bigger place or buy a house, and then use them as rear speakers with Modula MTMs, 3-ways, or similar for the upgraded fronts.

The bottom line is that the biggest impact in sound quality will be the quality of the speakers. There is a lot of discussion of the Panasonic receiver on the AVS forum, including someone who used it to power is $20,000 B&W 802D speakers. The guy liked it!

[hex2bit]

Well, I'm building a home theater setup, so I really don't want to do just stereo. Right now I just have my Logitech PC speakers mounted on the wall. They are just 3" full range speakers with an 8" sub. It's a 4.1 setup.

As far as the crossover, I'm not sure what the cost will be. I don't think the parts are that expensive, unless you're trying to do quite a bit with it. It should be cheaper to build one than to buy one of the pre-built ones, right?

The Panny receiver looks pretty good. 100W per channel should be good.

Also, I have looked at Zaph Audio... and the North D25 looks good. Perhaps the North D25 paired with the Dayton RS150 would provide an overall better sound? I wish Zaph would have tested the CA135 in his 5.5" driver comparison to see how it compares. I'm not sure if the RS150 would be a big step up from the CA135...

Thanks for the feedback so far....

[dlneubec]

I recommend you consider allocating more of your speaker budget to the mains, center channel and sub(s). The rears are much less important, IMO. I would suggest you build something like Zaph's Hi Vi B3S or B3N for your rear speakers and mount them on the side walls.
Zaphs HiVi B3S

They would probably be around $50for a pair. That way you can use some well tested designs from this board for the mains, CC and sub(s). I think this would give you a more satisfying overall sound.

Dan

[jonathanb3478]

I recommend you consider allocating more of your speaker budget to the mains, center channel and sub(s).

That way you can use some well tested designs from this board for the mains, CC and sub(s). I think this would give you a more satisfying overall sound.

<- +1

[WillyD]

I myself am looking at the Panasonic XR-55 or XR-57 in the near future.......I'll be using the Modula MTs in stereo mode for a long time.

Thats my setup right now. A black XR-55 with a pair of Modula MTs. I like it a lot. Of course, like you said, one day I will build a pair of 3-ways to replace them, but for now, I am quite happy with the performance.

[joecarrow]

Thats my setup right now. A black XR-55 with a pair of Modula MTs. I like it a lot. Of course, like you said, one day I will build a pair of 3-ways to replace them, but for now, I am quite happy with the performance.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but that's really good to hear. I was worried that they might not be a good mix. Even though Jon said the imepedance curve is quite benign, and I can see in the graph that the minimum impedance is right around 6 ohms... I don't have a good feel for what is a "difficult" speaker to drive, or if the Panasonic would handle it well.

Hex2bit, I understand completely that stereo won't cut it for you. If you have larger front speakers and something smaller for the rears, that could work out well. I already downloaded the user manual, and the XR-55 allows you to set the highpass frequency for speakers set to "small". The frequencies included 80, 100, and 150 hz. An active 150hz highpass would let you get a lot of good sound out of a 3 to 5 inch woofer.

[jonathanb3478]

Is the incompatibility with low ohm loads a known issue with the Panasonic "digital" receivers? My Onkyo SR602B was $250 (refurb a year ago), and I am running it with 3 x 4-ohm fronts and 4 x 6-ohm rears, and I have not had any issues during the last ~11 months or so of doing that.

[joecarrow]

Jonathan, it's kind of complicated. The receiver says it needs a 6-8 ohm load, but it has the ability to do dual-amping and bi-amping. The XR-57 can actually take two amplifier channels for each of the front speaker and output 5.1 with single amplifier channels for the front and rears. I would presume that this allows the receiver to handle lower impedance speakers, but I'd want to hear that from someone who's actually tried it with 4-ohm speakers.

I believe that the XR-57 should be able to dual-amp your L and R speakers (but not the center) and handle the 4 ohm load, and the 6 ohm rears should be no problem at all. You'll probably want to search for forum posts of people who have used these receivers with low impedance speakers, such as typical MTM designs.

[SteveCallas]

I'd also suggest skimping on the surrounds in favor of beefing up the front three. Heck, you might just want to buy something like these to use as surrounds and save some money and effort.

[sYkone]

The only thing I'd warn against is an MTM configuration, since you'll want to keep impedance above 6 ohms for that receiver (or any budget receiver, really).

Mine works just fine. Many on AVS are running 4 ohm.

[WillyD]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but that's really good to hear. I was worried that they might not be a good mix. Even though Jon said the imepedance curve is quite benign, and I can see in the graph that the minimum impedance is right around 6 ohms... I don't have a good feel for what is a "difficult" speaker to drive, or if the Panasonic would handle it well.

Hex2bit, I understand completely that stereo won't cut it for you. If you have larger front speakers and something smaller for the rears, that could work out well. I already downloaded the user manual, and the XR-55 allows you to set the highpass frequency for speakers set to "small". The frequencies included 80, 100, and 150 hz. An active 150hz highpass would let you get a lot of good sound out of a 3 to 5 inch woofer.

Yeah, I understand. Pretty much every budget, or even mid-range receiver does not officially support driving 4ohm speakers, but I believe a lot of them are very capable (depending on the speakers' true impedance curve, efficiency, and normal listening volume). I know that the XR-55 has been tested to put out close to 170w at 4ohms, in stereo.

I am looking forward to testing it out with some 4ohm speakers, but I have heard/read of many individuals who run lower impedance speakers with their XR-55, and have zero issues.

Now...if I had more money, would I go for a HT processor of some sort and external amps? Yes. But for the price, I am pleased with my budget receiver.

[Inu_Yasha]

Is the incompatibility with low ohm loads a known issue with the Panasonic "digital" receivers? My Onkyo SR602B was $250 (refurb a year ago), and I am running it with 3 x 4-ohm fronts and 4 x 6-ohm rears, and I have not had any issues during the last ~11 months or so of doing that.

Again, not to hijack the thread, but it's good to hear that my TX-SR703 should be able to handle 3 x 4-ohm load without dying .

Just like all the others have suggested, I would highly suggest getting better fronts! I upgraded my fronts from my old sony HTIB system this year with some Polk R15's and was blown away. That's what got me into DIY audio. The majority of your sound is going to be comming from your front speakers (in particular your center channel if you're watching in 5.1), so wouldn't it make sense to have the best equipment up front?

Another thing to consider is using your current logitech speakers as surrounds or even using your current sub if you already like its sounds. I was able to use my dad's computer sub from an old boston accoustics set as a subwoofer in his setup.

Seriously though, I would consider getting the XR-55 or if you can find a deal on an openbox somewhere, you may be able to get a better price! Then you can invest more in your speakers :T I got my reciever at onecall and payed only half of what it was going for at Circuitcity.

[sYkone]

Oh and it is a blanket statement to say MTM's are 4 ohm too. I understand many are but not all.

[sYkone]

Hex2bit, I just deviated from said plan. RSS310HF (weekend special @ $100) and BASH 300W. Going 3.5 cuft ported to 21HZ. ~$229 total w/o shipping. Looked like a good deal. Supposedly will handle more power but from what I modeled, 300w pushed xmax sufficiently enough. I am not the best with WinISD but it is what I came up with. May add 1 or 2 db at 25HZ or so later. Probably won't need it.

[hex2bit]

I see the prices on PE as well.. The BASH amp looks good at $130... but I'm thinking about the RSS390HF at $140 right now. It's a little underpowered with that amp, but should be just fine for my listening levels.

If these are weekend specials, I might have to jump on that...

[hex2bit]

Well, my target box size is around 3 cubic feet, ported. I plotted out some of the subs in WinISD, which I don't think works the greatest for ported estimations. I had my brother plot them out in BassBox Pro. It looks like the RSS315HF [link] does very similar to the 15 inch, and at $100, looks to be the best value for what I'm looking for and box size. In a 3 cubic foot box, ported to 22 Hz, it gives an F3 of 24 Hz. When I decide my box deminsions for what I'm doing, I might go bigger if I can. Looks like a very good choice sYkone. I've placed an order at PartsExpress for both the 12 inch sub and the 300W BASH amp

Now I have to do some more research on my other speakers.

[sYkone]

Good. Looks like I am not alone in thinking this will be a good compromise between output and cost. Not to mention sound. Getting any tingles in the speaker dept. or just beginning to look?