Possibly the most amateur question you've heard

[mike_d]

I'll start out by stating that I know very little about audio equipment in general, and I'm sorry if these questions have been answered elsewhere, but after looking through several forums I'm starting to realize I'm not going to get far by scouring thread after thread for answers. However, I spend a good amount of my time listening to music, and I really would like to have a decent set of speakers so that I don't have to use my headphones and be tethered to whatever piece of equipment I happen to be using.

I've been looking for something to build for a while now, and when I stumbled across the home page of an audio engineer and was introduced to the world of DIY speaker building I felt like it was the perfect task.

I don't have much money though, so my objective is to buy equipment I can expand upon over time and gradually build up a decent sound system. I would like to start off with something like the Modula MTs, since those seem to be very good for the cost. Aside from the benefit of saving money on speakers by building them myself, I really want to learn all about how to build a proper speaker so I'm not really interested in using any sort of project plan (driver placement, cabinets, crossovers ... I want to do it all). I just don't know if it is realistic to think that I would be able to learn how to build an entire speaker from scratch using only knowledge gained from books and forums.

My question is, if it is possible for me to do this, what starting equipment and books would you suggest I get? I've spent the past week reading a lot on the internet, but most of what I read explains specific models rather then the concepts behind the acoustics, and that doesn't help me much.

I currently own what can best be described as a collection of salvaged goods and cheaper than cheap equipment, so I really doubt I have anything worth keeping (a pair of Sony ss-u 4030's, a set of Boston computer speakers that have seen better days, and a 5.1 setup that ... well let's just say that just by owning these speakers I put in to question how much I could possibly enjoy music while at the same time participating in murdering sound with these tin cans.)

I'm assuming that to start off I'll need a receiver that offers me an opportunity to expand once I have the money and skill to do so, and a nice set of drivers to build a decent little 2 channel setup with. My TV and turntable both have speaker outputs, and if I could do without a receiver for a while by sticking with a low power set that would be great since I haven't got much of a budget, but I also haven't got much patience and would really like to throw myself in to a big project so if it would be better to buy the proper equipment, I'll find a way to bite the bullet. Of course it's possible that I'm making no sense here given my present understanding of audio in general.

I'm not under the impression that I'll be able to build a speaker just as well as anyone here in a year's time, but I'm not afraid of the math or cabinet design and I would love to gain a skill that I can use in a practical way and still be passionate about.

Sorry about the length of my post. I was debating whether to post anything at all, but I couldn't find anyone else in my particular situation. I don't mean to offend anyone if I have, I'm just not making much progress by lurking.

[joetama]

You need a good understanding of the ideas behind audio before you jump head first into building enclosures and selecting drivers.

My suggestion to you is to read as much as you can then read some more. I think the best book ever, if you can find it is "How to Build Speaker Enclosures" by Alexis Badmaieff and Don Davis. It's an old school book from the 70's but it describes everything in a way you can understand it.

I just googled it and holy god their are some for sale... Check it out....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0672205203/sr=1-3/qid=1154927426/ref=sr_1_3/002-3418748-6651247?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Marzen]

Mike - why not start out by building a speaker that's already been designed & proven. Grab some free software and a microphone for you computer and learn how measure it & your room. After that you'll have a better idea of how your changes worked out. If any new ideas fail, you can still go back to your original speaker. I did that with the Modula MTM's - and I've built several new enclosures using the same drivers & now I'm beginning to add new drivers in an attempt to design my own from scratch.
-Ward

[jonathanb3478]

Two excellent suggestions so far. I must say, that before you can run, you need to be able to walk. (or, in your case, even sit upright )

You have quite a ways to go, before you will be able to design speakers from scratch and get good results. This is not to say you shouldn't, just not yet.

[joecarrow]

I would also say that you will make a lot of mistakes at first. I know I have! You never know what's going to go wrong, and that's how we learn.

How about setting a budget that's low enough that you wouldn't be too upset if they just don't sound very good? Maybe $50 in parts, plus some cheap wood. You'll be able to design and build everything, and whatever you come up with will have a good chance of letting you say, "Wow, for fifty bucks this sounds nice!"

I definitely sympathize with your need for some good sound for the period of time before you're up to the challenge of designing a really good system from scratch. Speakers are so much more fun to listen to than headphones!

I can see you're not afraid of buying used gear- you should know that there are high-value commercial speakers out there that could hold you over until the day you build a pair to beat them. I've personally heard some Cambridge Soundworks bookshelf speakers in the Newton line that I wouldn't mind living with, and they were under $400 for a new pair. I've also heard the B&W 303's extensively, and they're not bad. I'd go a couple steps up in the line, but they're a solid brand.

In addition to a good understanding of the ideas, you also need good tools. That's something I've been finding out the hard way. That's another reason why I recommend some used commercial speakers to keep the music going while you work your way through a number of smaller projects to gain knowledge and tools (hardware tools, mental tools, software tools, etc) to support something bigger.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum!

[Dan B]

You said you are anxious to start building and you spend a good deal of time listening to music.

Well, I think your idea of building the Modula MT is a great one. I power mine with an Onkyo that cost me about 400 bucks and I’m thrilled. I’ve heard systems that cost MANY times what I’ve got into this, and I don’t lust after them for a second.

[morbo]

You *can* start right from scratch, but IMHo the learning curve is very steep that way. Even just building a kit/proven design you will learn a *LOT* more than you expect, and run into dozens of places you could go wrong along the way. If you do everything from scratch, that is; learn about enclosure design, T/S paramter testing, buy measurement and modelling gear and software, etc, you will likely find that there are just too many variables that all affect each other to wrap your head around at once, especially if you go wrong somewhere, and have to find out which of those variables is off. This is even more true is you don't have a strong grasp of the underlying theory (like me), so when a measurement turns out weird, or things don't go exactly as described by a step-by-step guide, you're left scratching your head.

So, if you want to make this a long term hobby, then by all means start reading and buying testing gear and some cheap drivers.

If however you just want to build a nice pair of speakers, the odds of coming out with something very good for the money, much less 'as good as it gets for the money', on your first attempt are pretty slim. If that is your situation, in my opinion you're much better off with a proven design, and you will still learn more about how speakers and amplifiers work than most seasoned 'audiophiles' along the way.

[Martyn]

So build a proven design (like the Modula MT) and follow the design to the letter. Later, after you've been enjoying them for a while, see whether you can improve on the cabinet and crossover designs using the same drivers and the benefit of your new-found knowledge and measuring gear. If you succeed, that'll be a very satisfying achievement! If you don't, you can put your drivers back in their original boxes and continuing enjoying a good pair of speakers. Either way, you'll have a sound basis for comparison.

[mike_d]

Alright, seems everyone is in agreement then. I just thought I would learn more if I tried to do it all myself, because following a diagram doesn't really help me understand why they were built that way in the first place. If there really is a lot to learn even from building a proven design then I guess I can always dismantle any speaker I build from a guide.

I guess I'll just pick up some books and see if I can try to understand each task as I am doing it without having to go through the trouble of designing it myself.

In the meantime I'll have to stick with headphones because I've put the Sony speakers I've had back where they belong in a home theater setup and my other choices aren't so great.

I've got plenty of woodworking tools I have access to, so that won't be a problem, but I don't have any sort of audio equipment, and I have no idea what I need, but I can probably find that information in a book, right?

No way can I afford to buy a commercial set of speakers and then have enough left over to build a decent set. If you knew what kind of money I had in savings you would think I was an idiot for even thinking about buying audio equipment.

[Marzen]

I just thought I would learn more if I tried to do it all myself, because following a diagram doesn't really help me understand why they were built that way in the first place. If there really is a lot to learn even from building a proven design then I guess I can always dismantle any speaker I build from a guide.

Trust me on this one - reverse engineering a DIY or commercial design is not as easy as it sounds. There's plenty to decipher & you have access to the DIY designer for questions. I don't think you'll find much feedback from commercial designers.

I guess I'll just pick up some books and see if I can try to understand each task as I am doing it without having to go through the trouble of designing it myself.

My personal pick is Speaker Building 201 as it covers all the basics including the math behind it. An easy read written by a teacher of speaker design.

I've got plenty of woodworking tools I have access to, so that won't be a problem, but I don't have any sort of audio equipment, and I have no idea what I need, but I can probably find that information in a book, right?

The book above has links to online calculators & tools.

No way can I afford to buy a commercial set of speakers and then have enough left over to build a decent set. If you knew what kind of money I had in savings you would think I was an idiot for even thinking about buying audio equipment.

Haha...I got into this to save money...!
I've spent more on this hobby in one year vs. five years on my custom semi-automated home brewery. :B Good luck with whatever path you choose.
-Ward

[Arneson]

Home Brewery!!!!!!!!!
I gotta get me one of those..

[jkrueger]

Once you've DIY'ed you'll never go back

I brew too. Having been on a steep learning curve with a different skill set has helped me not to get to anxious about all of this new audio stuff. It sure is fun though.

[Arneson]

So my bathtub and a capper is not gonna do it?