2-Way or Possibly 3-Way w/ M8n

**Landroval** · 13 June 2006, 12:16 Tuesday

Originally posted by m1ke323

This is my first floorstanding speaker build and I have no experience with XO's.

---> Do this: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=3430

Without XO experience it's wise to build a predesigned system. The enclosure can be very different, as long as you keep the front baffle around the same size and preferably keep the volume and tuning frequency the same (of course with little effort you can do a smaller sealed version etc.).

**m1ke323** · 13 June 2006, 15:03 Tuesday

Thanks Landroval for the suggestion. That is actully the speaker that I saw over at AVS and made me want to build my own. I completely understand why a predesigned system is best and how it would be extremely difficult for me if not impossible to design my own.

My concern with that Avalon Klone is that is won't provide enough midbass for me with action movies, if I am wrong please correct me. I like to listen to movies loud and if this speaker can keep up with LOTR loud or any other action movies, this will be the one I build. If it can't, is there any easy modifcation I can make to add second M8n to this design?

Thanks guys

**m1ke323** · 13 June 2006, 15:16 Tuesday

After doing a little more digging, I noticed most of Avalon's current line up either has a single 11" woofer with a midrange and tweeter, or dual 7" or 9" woofers. I guess I am ignorant but I just can't get over the idea of a single 8" woofer and a tweeter putting out that much sound for loud movies. Am I wrong and this speaker is more then enough?

**ThomasW** · 13 June 2006, 15:30 Tuesday

IMO you're correct, which is why I recommend an MTM configuration. To take the workload off the midwoofers a bass bin is a nice option. So MTMWW is the way to go if you want pretty unrestricted dynamics and low distortion.

The faceted front baffles do look very cool, but you'd need the ability to design a XO from scratch if you wanted to build those...

**Paul H** · 13 June 2006, 20:22 Tuesday

Mike,

An 8" woofer can easily play loud enough for movies, but only if it's crossed over to separate woofers at a high enough frequency. YMMV, depending on your definition of loud, the room size, etc, etc.

I like speakers that don't have to be pushed hard to get the volume I want - they sound much more clean and clear.

The M8N MTM's I have don't work hard (and sound great) playing movies at 8-9 dB below reference level in a 27'x17'x8' room, with a 90Hz crossover to a sub. I think a single M8 would struggle crossed directly to the sub.

Incidentally, the M8 drivers really do look great

Paul

**m1ke323** · 13 June 2006, 22:49 Tuesday

ThomasW and Paul, thanks for the input. Is there any other MTMWW designs that I could use the M8's with?

I'm not the biggest fan of the offset tweeter in the the MTM configuation but from what I am reading it sounds the best this way, so I am looking for a way to make a really aesthetic baffle with them.

Could I do the MTMWW with the Avalon baffle? Otherwise I might do the MTMWW route in either a parallelogram or Paul design. I am just tired of the plain old box design and need to spice things up.

Paul, I agree with you, I like when the speakers don't have to be pushed to hard to give the volume I want. My biggest pet peeve is distortion. Thanks for the help

Mike

**Paul H** · 13 June 2006, 23:17 Tuesday

Originally posted by m1ke323

ThomasW and Paul, thanks for the input. Is there any other MTMWW designs that I could use the M8's with? ...

Mike

How about the Arvos?

**ThomasW** · 13 June 2006, 23:19 Tuesday

I'm not the biggest fan of the offset tweeter in the the MTM configuation but from what I am reading it sounds the best this way,

Yep....

Is there any other MTMWW designs that I could use the M8's with?

We have 2 one is the M8a-MTM you could use an active XOed bass bin with it. The other is of course the Arvo dipole

Could I do the MTMWW with the Avalon baffle?

Only if you have the ability to design a custom crossover.

**m1ke323** · 13 June 2006, 23:40 Tuesday

thanks guys, after looking at the MTMWW designs I have decided I will do just the MTM configuration. But now that I won't have the woofers is there a better driver I should be using the the M8n?

I would really like to do Pauls design or if it is possible do a parallelogram like the Avalon Klone just without the angled baffle.

I'm getting really excited about these now. I plan on building a MTM center as well to match the floorstanders.

I don't have experience to build a custom crossover so I think doing the tried and tested MTM design is a good thing since I am just beginning.

Mike

**m1ke323** · 14 June 2006, 00:57 Wednesday

Alright, well I have been reading posts for countless hours and trying to absorb as much as a I can.

I know I need a predesigned speaker becuase I have no experience with crossovers, so I am going to go the MTM route.

I really really really and I mean really love Pauls design, great job paul. But as i stated above would also consider a parallelgram like the Avalons without the angled baffle.

Paul, do you still have your designs, and if so would you be willing to share them with me?

The M8a's will be my midrange speakers with maybe a Vifa xt25 or RS28 tweeter. I don't know jack about tweeters but would like to keep the price under $100 for each tweeter and these seem to be recommended for the MTM design. Any suggestions here?

Also, what is the rough estimate on the cost of a crossover for this MTM design? Thanks again

Mike

Edit: I figured out the crossover prices so no need to reply about that anymore.

**Landroval** · 14 June 2006, 11:12 Wednesday

Originally posted by m1ke323

Could I do the MTMWW with the Avalon baffle?

Originally posted by ThomasW

Only if you have the ability to design a custom crossover.

In my opinion the differences from a slightly modified baffle are so small that you wont need any modifications to the xo. I'm quite tolerant to rougher frequency responces, but I believe most people wont hear the difference.

**ThomasW** · 14 June 2006, 11:42 Wednesday

If we're talking about minor dimensional changes in a standard flat baffle I agree.

Moving a flat baffle to an Avalon style fully faceted baffle is a major change in the geometry. One would certainly hear the differences that causes in an A/B comparison

**m1ke323** · 15 June 2006, 11:51 Thursday

Well it has been a few days and I think I have read through a dozen different predesigned systems. I don't think I want to do the huge MTMWW route but I don't think a MTM will be enough for my loud movies. Do you guys think a the TMWW design with RS drivers in Pauls type of enclosure would be better in the low end then the MTM with M8n's?

As always any other recommendation are more then welcome. Thanks

Mike

**JonMarsh** · 15 June 2006, 13:06 Thursday

Originally posted by m1ke323

Alright, well I have been reading posts for countless hours and trying to absorb as much as a I can.

I know I need a predesigned speaker becuase I have no experience with crossovers, so I am going to go the MTM route.

I really really really and I mean really love Pauls design, great job paul. But as i stated above would also consider a parallelgram like the Avalons without the angled baffle.

Paul, do you still have your designs, and if so would you be willing to share them with me?

The M8a's will be my midrange speakers with maybe a Vifa xt25 or RS28 tweeter. I don't know jack about tweeters but would like to keep the price under $100 for each tweeter and these seem to be recommended for the MTM design. Any suggestions here?

Also, what is the rough estimate on the cost of a crossover for this MTM design? Thanks again

Mike

Edit: I figured out the crossover prices so no need to reply about that anymore.

RS28a- it's a drop in with the original Vifa XT crossover, but has lower distortion below 3 kHz, much greater dynamics if you push them hard.

**m1ke323** · 15 June 2006, 23:47 Thursday

thanks Jon, but after reading Paul experiences with his MTM I wanted to klone I might try the TMWW route instead. In one of Pauls posts a while back he was playing LOTR real loud and his M8n's were trying to do LFE.

I only have a HSU STF-2 sub right now, so I need some speakers with a bottom end. I am hopeing the the RS 3-way TMWW in Paul's style closure will be better then the MTM in that enclosure. What do you guys think? Thanks

Mike

**Paul H** · 16 June 2006, 18:01 Friday

I guess I should comment about the response to my comments from a while back

I've been using an M8n MTM as my centre channel for 2 years now, and have never had a problem playing movies loud, but I always play movies with all speakers crossed over to a sub. The note I made about playing LOTR with the M8n's shouldn't cause serious concern - it was a passage with significant low frequencies played Loud.

If you want serious volume for LFE build a sub first, and do some other speakers later. Use a 15" driver, or 2 or 3 or 4 15" drivers ...

**m1ke323** · 16 June 2006, 22:02 Friday

Sorry about that Paul, I guess I kind of took that out of context. I didn't in any way mean to bash your gorgeous speakers. ;x(

I am still thinking of doing the 3-way RS WWMT route like Brian Walter is doing. So many decisions to make with hardly knowing the consequences of one choice vs another. AAAHHH 8O

**Paul H** · 17 June 2006, 13:17 Saturday

No apologies needed at all - I'm more interested in describing as well as I can what you'd get if you built those speakers. As Jon often notes, 'nothing to sell here'

I'm not one to push mtm's on anyone anyway - I like 3-way and 4-ways.

2-Way or Possibly 3-Way w/ M8n

2-Way or Possibly 3-Way w/ M8n

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