First time DIY ???'s

**KeithM** · 08 June 2006, 15:33 Thursday

1. even without hearing them, the opinions I've heard on the stickies, namely the modula MTs, Natalie Ps, are incredibly good for the price.
2. I don't live in atlanta, but I think some other members do
3. The Natalie Ps look good for a first project. Not as complex as some others, so it's a little bit easier.
4. as much as you need to spend, 50-100 won't make too much difference from my experience
5. Don't worry, most people put a picture of their crossover in real life in the threads
6. It doesn't make too much difference, it's mainly on the outside of the cabinet improvements can be made
7. the only things parts express usually has on sale for any stickied thread are the dayton RS28 tweeters and the dayton RS180.

**WillyD** · 08 June 2006, 15:34 Thursday

Welcome to HTGuide!

"So, the DIY Idea looks like the sound solution Here..."

You have to come to the right place, indeed.

For a first project I would recommend either the Modual MTs or the Natalie Ps. Considering you like working with wood, making your own enclosures will save you some $$$. They are excellent speakers for music AND movies. All of the designs here were created with excellent reproduction of all audio.

Both should impress you with their bass extension (My MTs play well into the 30s).

You are not the first one to worry about crossovers. There are many posts in each design thread concerning the crossover components and how to build them. The members here are very helpful.

Good luck, and I am sure someone else will chime in.

**Doug Lockwood** · 08 June 2006, 16:36 Thursday

Welcome to the dark side. :E

"What I want for my first DIY project is a 'Proven Design'"
Good choice!

"How do the DIY systems "Sticky'd" here compare to them ?"
I have heard 2 of the designs presented here. I built a Modula MT for my brother’s friend, and I heard the Natalie P at DIY Chicago 2005. IIRC, the Natalie P won the mid-price category. The Modula MT I only got to listen to for about a half hour, but they were absolutely superb. I would build almost any of the designs here without worry.

Neither design will disappoint you in a reasonable size rooms at moderate to loud listening levels. That’s the beauty of DIY; one size doesn’t need to fit all.
If you have a very large room, or want to use these as party speakers, let us know

"-Crossovers, Oh Boy...I have never done anything even close to this before..."
Since there is a BOM (bill of material) a drawing, a schematic and a picture for the Modula MT, anyone should be able to do it with a moderate amount of care.
It’s just like walking: One step at a time. The Natalie P has a similar level of support.

Enjoy.

Doug

**yousuredo2** · 08 June 2006, 18:58 Thursday

Hey, thanks for the comments so far, as well as the welcome...

Sorry, should have mentioned my ROOM size....
this gets tricky...
the Living room is about 12' x14'
but it is open to the dining room (9'x 9'),kitchen (9'x10'), & hall
all messurements are approx.
Oh and I have a MA audio Automotive sub DVC 6ohm, and 800w's...
this can used as sub with one of the 250w PE's amps, correct ?

**yousuredo2** · 09 June 2006, 12:24 Friday

I just Placed an order for 2 of These
I am thinking maybe a pair of front towers (MTM) with a side mounted woofer in each powered by them...

what you think ?

**yousuredo2** · 17 June 2006, 22:44 Saturday

Sub box is built...
and drying...
tommorow is Sub Day...Yeah !

Built it out of 3/4" MDF, seperated the amp from the main box, and placed an extra 1/2" on the front and back, for a total of 1 1/4 thick...
braced the ports in the rear as well...
24" Long Total (last 4.5" is for the amp)
16.5" x 16.5" for the rest, with two 3" x 15.5" Ports...

Caint wait to hear it...
Keep ya posted...

**royceb** · 20 June 2006, 15:19 Tuesday

yousuredo2,

I just got bitten by the DIY bug myself and like you I was pretty intimated by the crossover building. I recent ordered a kit from Parts Express - the Dayton BR-1 kit. It cost less than $200 and I found it to be a good learning tool. They give you the x-o parts and the PC Board lays out the configuration, so you can take time to see how eveything connects while you install the x-o. I was(am) a total noob at speaker building (never soldered before, never read schematics) and I was successful at making it all work. You seem a bit more advanced at this than me, so you should have no problem. If you are looking to learn more about schematics, I would suggest picking up "A Beginner's Guide to Reading Schematics" by Robert Traister

**yousuredo2** · 23 June 2006, 09:49 Friday

I am still undecided...
but narrowing it down...

I like the kits but, I have heard their prefab XO's aren't so great(to say the least)...
How do you like the sound ?

the sub is completed and sounds good...
Its Been a long time sence I have had one, forgot what I was missing...

I made my own circle jig for the router....
but i have a question, how do you cut a(ie:3") hole smaller than the routers faceplate (5 1/4")

**ThomasW** · 23 June 2006, 10:37 Friday

Originally posted by yousuredo2

I made my own circle jig for the router....
but i have a question, how do you cut a(ie:3") hole smaller than the routers faceplate (5 1/4")

There are 2 low buck ways. One is of course just use a jigsaw. The other is simply drill indexed holes in the plastic base plate of the router.

Hardcore DIYer's use hole saws for these smaller cutouts.

Jasper Jigs also has a jig that cuts very small holes. I have one but it's easier to use hole saw than that jig.

**yousuredo2** · 23 June 2006, 11:00 Friday

what I mean, is using the Jasper or equivailant...
how do you use the smaller dia, hole jigs when it is under the router faceplate ?
no access to it...to put a pivet point...

do you have a jig for the jig saw...if not how to get it almost perfect...
hole saws are costly when you add them up...2"/2.5"/3"/3.5" ect...

**ThomasW** · 23 June 2006, 11:36 Friday

Originally posted by yousuredo2

what I mean, is using the Jasper or equivailant...
how do you use the smaller dia, hole jigs when it is under the router faceplate ?
no access to it...to put a pivet point...

You use a really short pin/nail. Put it in the bottom plate then flip the router over insert it in your predrilled hole.

do you have a jig for the jig saw...if not how to get it almost perfect...

Define 'perfect'. Nope no jig. Nobody sees the hole after the driver is mounted. For the first 15yrs I built speakers I didn't even own a router.

hole saws are costly when you add them up...2"/2.5"/3"/3.5" ect...

Yes they are...Generally speaking you only need one or two for most tweeters.

**cjd** · 23 June 2006, 11:58 Friday

The excellent Nat P/Modula MT have a slightly more confusing crossover for a first-timer IMHO. So, of course, I have to pipe up and mention my MTM (RS150 based - Seas or RS tweeter). I use them in a room that sounds very similar to yours. Good stuff, and I don't have to say so myself - won last year's Chicago DIY budget category, plus some other feedback. Just another option to add to the confusion.

And, if you have a digital camera, you can snap pics of crossover assembly and post 'em up to get verification that it's done right. Does not have to be a good pic - camera phone even works.

C

**yousuredo2** · 23 June 2006, 16:51 Friday

Perfect, well OK almost perfect...(visully acceptable)
tweeter holes flush mouting...
as well as ports holes all need to be fairly acurate, yes...
aren't they seen...?

CJD:
I might have to take another look at your's, I have seen so many...
I dont recall who's is what, anymore...

**ThomasW** · 23 June 2006, 19:19 Friday

Originally posted by yousuredo2

as well as ports holes all need to be fairly acurate, yes...
aren't they seen...?

All depends on how you mount them through the hole or behind the hole in the baffle

If you use the flared port kits those don't need an accurate hole at all

**yousuredo2** · 24 June 2006, 10:19 Saturday

Originally posted by cjd

The excellent Nat P/Modula MT have a slightly more confusing crossover for a first-timer IMHO. So, of course, I have to pipe up and mention my MTM (RS150 based - Seas or RS tweeter). I use them in a room that sounds very similar to yours. Good stuff, and I don't have to say so myself - won last year's Chicago DIY budget category, plus some other feedback. Just another option to add to the confusion.

And, if you have a digital camera, you can snap pics of crossover assembly and post 'em up to get verification that it's done right. Does not have to be a good pic - camera phone even works.

C

I saw your page...
but no BOM...
and I also saw on another thread, that you wouldnt build them again, is this correct...?
if so why ?
I love the idea of a slightly less expensive version, using the seas tweeter...(= getting to do it sooner)
I just ordered 4 D RS 180's from PE
and I need to determine what tweeter and XO parts to order soon...any and all help
thanx chris

~~~~~~~~Edit~~~~~~~
I am going to build towers...40" or so tall...
and be placed near walls...
any crssover mods needed ?
any recomendations as to whitch tweeter to use ?
any if I was to do it over again, I would.........?

**yousuredo2** · 24 June 2006, 10:58 Saturday

I just realized your design is for the 150, not the 180...
can it be done with the 180 ?

**ThomasW** · 24 June 2006, 11:08 Saturday

Originally posted by yousuredo2

I just realized your design is for the 150, not the 180...
can it be done with the 180 ?

If you want to use the 180 why not build the RS180 Modula MT design?

**cjd** · 24 June 2006, 14:02 Saturday

Mine is RS150. And, my comments are about which version of the crossover I would use - I would probably not build the higher crossover point (2.1kHz) version (initial, and what I have today) since the 1.8kHz version isn't much difference in cost and adds a bit of flexibility to the design. They are on my list of options for my HT when I get around to re-doing that, as it happens.

Go Modula MT or Natalie P (MTM version) for the RS180. Different designs for different drivers, and these are the reference options for this driver.

C

**yousuredo2** · 24 June 2006, 14:22 Saturday

I realy "want" the fronts to be more than MT's...
I plan on building a center(W-M/T-W), and surounds(MT) later, as budget allows...

**yousuredo2** · 24 June 2006, 16:17 Saturday

I have another Question...
Why does my sub sound better when I am in another room,
than it does in the room it is in ?

**ThomasW** · 24 June 2006, 17:43 Saturday

Originally posted by yousuredo2

I have another Question...
Why does my sub sound better when I am in another room,
than it does in the room it is in ?

It probably doesn't sound 'better' throughout the entire passband. What you're hearing is the full wavelengths of some of the lower frequencies.

When I'm in the basement and one of the IB subs is operating, certain frequencies sound really great as I walk further away moving toward the stairs some 45' away.

**Amphiprion** · 24 June 2006, 17:54 Saturday

When I was in the dorms, I used to play high level 50Hz sine waves through my bookshelf speakers (right at tuning). It set up standing waves outside in the hallway. You could walk down the 100 foot or so hallway and it would get loud...quiet....loud....quiet... all the way down the hall. It was neat. Then my roomate yelled out "Mark something is starting to smell!" Apparently little 6.5" woofers don't like when you feed them a lot of power at tuning and there's no air movement going on. Didn't blow em or otherwise seem to damage them, so I imagine I just cooked the enamel on the VC wire a bit.

**yousuredo2** · 25 June 2006, 09:07 Sunday

Originally posted by cjd

Go Modula MT or Natalie P (MTM version) for the RS180. Different designs for different drivers, and these are the reference options for this driver.

C

Do to lack of availabilaty of the Dayton tweeter, and the lower cost of the sea's.
has anyone done either of these with the sea's tweeter ?
and have a BOM, and XO for it...?

**WillyD** · 25 June 2006, 16:13 Sunday

I did the Modula MT with the Seas tweeter.

I used the BOM that Jim Holtz provided.

Here is the post with the XO.

The two pictures at the bottom of this post are of the Seas xover that I built.

Here is Jim's post with the BOM.

**yousuredo2** · 25 June 2006, 22:41 Sunday

But how about a MTM with it...

**WillyD** · 25 June 2006, 23:04 Sunday

Originally posted by yousuredo2

But how about a MTM with it...

Aren't you grateful... :roll:

Yeah, here is the Modula MTM thread.

However, it costs more than the Natalie P, and the xover is a bit more "serious". It should sound a bit better though. :T

**yousuredo2** · 26 June 2006, 08:32 Monday

Originally posted by WillyD

Aren't you grateful... :roll:

sorry, yes I am...
I was not trying to come off the way it sounds....sorry

**yousuredo2** · 29 June 2006, 08:54 Thursday

Yet another Question...
I have an Old School Fisher EQ...
it has two sets(in & out) of rca's for hookin it up...
I have it hooked up to the cd/dvd player...
Can you get the radio signal to go through it as well, if so How do i hook it up to do that ?

and can this be done with a beringer...

**WillyD** · 29 June 2006, 19:15 Thursday

Originally posted by yousuredo2

sorry, yes I am...
I was not trying to come off the way it sounds....sorry

Its alright, I wasn't serious either. :T

**yousuredo2** · 30 June 2006, 12:14 Friday

I am also designing an entertainment center...
two towers, a bridge, and posibly a stand for the TV...

I have considered placing a sub in the tv stand...
- Is this a good idea ? (non sheilded sub so close to tv)
- What kind of layering should be done between MDF to supress the vibrations ?(felt for roofing comes to mind)
- What is optimal TV hieght ? (should it be centered with eye hieght ?)
- Can the Tv be tilted a few degrees downward if mounted higher ?
- Any good ideas welcome

First time DIY ???'s

First time DIY ???'s

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