Thinking about building Exodus 2641s

[Fryguy]

... or possibly LCRs if cabinet cost is much much different (Phil Salisbury will be building them for me).

The planned home theater is as follows:

2641 mains
LCR center
61 rears
Avalanche 18" sealed

The ACTUAL plan is as follows:

Take the current system, which is a 2.1 system consisting of Audax 2-ways and avalanche 18", build 2641s, move the audax to rear surrounds, and then work from there.

For the price ($800 + cabinets), does anyone think I should be doing something else besides building 2641s/LCRs?

[Hdale85]

Is 800 for just the 2641's or is that the 2641's and the LCR?

[Fryguy]

they are ~$400 per speaker, just buildling 2 right now.

[ThomasW]

Our testing of the Extremis showed performance quite a bit different than the data Adire posts. As a result we've chosen to design systems around other drivers.

None of us have played with the WS125 so can't comment.

Not sure about the pricing comparison but your might take a look a Brian's Dayton RS 3-way thread.

[Fryguy]

Yah the Dayton RS 3-ways seem like a popular set, and would likely be a choice if I decided to go down in cost a little bit. From what I understand, they are a decent amount less than 2641/LCR.

Not really sure how much quality I'd be losing though. I'm looking to build speakers and then be DONE. I don't want to have the uppgrade bug, and I don't want to worry about switching out components later on. I want to spend the money now, build something I'll be happy with, and enjoy it.

[Dennis H]

Not really sure how much quality I'd be losing though.

Errrr, why would you assume you would be losing quality rather than gaining it?

[Scott Simonian]

Thomas - what was it about the Extremis that you and Jon didn't like? I know you guys disagreed with the published FR charts. Adire does seem to use smoothing a lot in the FR charts.

Just curious.

[HeatMiser]

The 2641 only uses the Extremis up to 700 Hz, so it seems to me it's a design that plays to the strengths of the driver and you end up with a solidly full-range speaker with a baffle that's only 8 inches wide. And I personally think that's a worthwhile consideration.

It's the WR125 that's the star of the show though, to me. I haven't heard the 2641 but I've heard other 2- and 3-way designs using this driver and I think (only my subjective opinion, mind you) it's a really top-notch paper cone midrange. I'd be really interested to see what the gurus around here could do with it and a more, umm, task-specific woofer.

Yeah the 2641 is on my short list of possible projects for a 50/50 HT/music setup, but of course one of the big reasons I registered here is to examine alternatives and perhaps be shown the error of my ways. :B

[ThomasW]

Not really sure how much quality I'd be losing though.

I'd consider Brian's design an upgrade from the 2641.

Scott,

I can't find our plot right now. Suffice to say there was more involved that just a plot being smoothed.

[Fryguy]

Do the Dayton RS 3-ways have a corresponding center channel and surrounds like exodus does?

I've heard a lot of good things about both components. I've used Adire stuff before and I like it. I'm also generally a believer of you get what you pay for, and the exodus costs more therefore it should be better. Obviously this isn't true in all cases, but both of these designs seems to be pretty competent, I'm just paying for the extra capability of the extremis, which should give an impressive amount of midbass.

Can anyone link me to some more detailed information about the Dayton RS, and possibly related center/surrounds?

[ThomasW]

Look at the stickey threads on this forum.

Something else to consider would be to make the Modula MTM or NatP and set them on a bass bin with containing a pair of 10"s.

FWIW the PE RS drivers are exceedingly good. Equal or better than some of the very high priced European offerings.

[Fryguy]

Not really looking for dedicated bass solutions, as I have the avalanche 18" to cover the low end already. I just need good transition down into the second octave.

[cjd]

Check out the WTMW/TMWW 3-way thread as I think that will fit the bill for you more than the larger sealed MTMWW 3-ways (the CC will match up well with the larger speakers too if you want to go that route).

Natalie P, Modula TM would be surround matches with the RS180. RS150, Paul O's TM, my MTM, Scott S's TM, all would be viable options.

C

[Fryguy]

Eh, the Dayton designs don't seem to be set in stone yet. I want something that I don't really need to play with. The exodus design seems to be well established.

I'm not looking to DIY because I'm a tweaker. I'm DIYing to get the tremendous cost savings over commercial offerings. I want to purchase a set, have it built, and be done. After the crossover is assembled and the drivers are screwed into the cabinet, I dont' want to ever have to take apart the speaker again

In all honesty I think that all of these speakers are going to be remarkable to the point that without being able to audition both of them, making decisions based on online talk and graphs isn't going to mean much to me. And in that case it makes sense to go with my first instinct, the Exodus drivers. And then just rely on the "ignorance is bliss" philosophy: "I haven't heard the Dayton speakers, so they can't be better than what I have"

[Hdale85]

Actually both of the RS 3 Ways are complete'd designs if you need the info message one of the people in that thread that was building them and they can send you the zip of the final design for the TMWW's it has the BOM and cut sheet and everything. The RS 3 Way Towers (MTMWW's) Are also completed go to page 16 of the thread and the final design is there.

[ThomasW]

This is a frequency response plot (black line) of the Extremis with corresponding distortion plots



This is similar testing of the RS180 used in the two designs.

[Fryguy]

Thomas, that's an interesting graph, but what do they look like after crossovers? Sure the raw measurement looks ugly, especially in the midrange, but the extremis was never really advertised as a midrange. It's a dedicated midbass. IIRC the extremis is crossed at 700hz in the exodus designs; well below where it starts to get ugly.

Err, the more I look at it, the more I'm just like "wow that _IS_ pretty bad"

Grr, I hate you people changing my mind

I guess I'm just kinda focused on that 12mm xmax number. I know I shouldn't fixate on it, because it doesn't mean much, especially by itself and especially for midbass duty. I just feel like by going with the Daytons I'm going to lose midbass ability. Not really sure why

Another thing I'm fixated on is the price difference. Both of these are pyschological factors, I know this. Anybody in the Western MA area that has these built that I can audition

[ThomasW]

Adire is a smallish company and they have a high markup on their drivers. PE moves thousands of drivers, and their markup is low.

Almost globally people are amazed at the sound quality of the new RS drivers. They very neutral and detailed.

If you want to get your feet wet build a set of the smaller MT or MTM units and give them a listen (you can use them for surrounds). I think you'll be quite pleased. I was slack jawed at the bass from the humble Modula MT when a local builder brought a pair by for me to trouble shoot his crossovers.

Besides black anodized cones are just sooo cool..:wink:

[Fryguy]

Yah I guess I'll give them a try. Now it's just planning out what I'm going to do for all 5 speakers. I'm trying to track down all of the crossover components for the MTMWW design right now. Some of these seem to be some pretty hard values ( 250uf cap stands out ) And I'd like to use single components where possible, as opposed to series/paralleling 2 or more wrong components to get the right amount.

[ThomasW]

Creating large value caps from clusters of smaller caps, has the benefit of having a VERY low ESR. That's a good thing... :T

[Fryguy]

I think I've tracked down suitable components for everything for the MTMWW (Just used a bennic electrolytic for the 250 for now just so I can get an idea of price).

However, at this point I'm not sure if the TMWW is more suitable for me than the MTMWW.

Keeping in mind that I have a subwoofer to cover the bottom octaves, and I want to have a voice-matched center speaker, and I'm looking for primarily musical ability, which is the better choice for me? My philosophy is to just get an amazing musical experience out of the system (stereo), and then throw in 3 more speakers to get a decent surround. I'm not a theater buff, I'm an audio buff.

[Brian Bunge]

Let me tell you what my thoughts were when I first started my Dayton RS 3-way thread. I was considering an MTMWW using the RS225's (8" woofers used in the TMWW), but I had a large, open floor plan house and wanted to make sure I had plenty of midbass bunch. I thought about going with the dual 8's sealed to keep size down, and then ported for extension. As I looked at things, I realized I could get dual RS270's (the 10's in my/Chris' design) in a sealed cabinet virtually the same size as the ported dual 8's cabinet. They don't extend super low, but they do have the advantage of higher SPL capabilities in their operating range, which will be somewhere around 60Hz and up once I get a big sub built (possibly IB). So that's the way I went. If you decide to go with my big 3-ways make sure you have a large enough room for them. They really sing when they have room to breathe.

For the center, I'm doing the center in the TMWW thread and most likely going with Chris' crossover since he did the xo design for the big 3-ways for me. For surrounds, I'm going with TM's using the RS28A tweet and RS150 woofer and hope to be designing the crossover myself.

BTW, I've built 2 pairs of 2641 cabinets for people and they looked really nice. Both were finished in cherry; one pair in standard cherry, one pair in figured cherry. Unfortunately, I didn't do crossover or final assembly so I never got the chance to actually hear the design.

[kgveteran]

Fryguy,
I use three centers as my mains.They have been in active duty for about four weeks now.I used Curt C's XO.

My room is small (13 x 15 ).I found that the tweeter needed to be padded down a bit.I used a PE L-pad.This in no way reflects on the sound of the RS28a just think of it as adding an impedance correct resistor in series parallel with the tweeter.I am also partial to the BBC curve, so I added that with my Ashly PEQ.These are final tweaks that in no way reflect on the XO design or drivers.At close mic with TrueRta they are flat as a board.I just had to taylor them to my needs(and knowing these guys,they could design the exact XO to do what I did with the PEQ and L-pad).

I intended on using them all horizontal, but as thing went along I ended up with the L&R vertical with little loss in imaging or FR.

My need for building these was a balanced system from the sub XO point on up. I XO at 100hz and my little two way monitors couldn't handle the bass and produce clean mids at the same time.These are very comfortable well beyond my usual listening (85db). I watched "Zethura" the other day at 0db on the master volume and besides it being too loud there was no breakups at all.My cost for each including the cabinets was $400 .Money well spent.

I've listened to all my music DVD's,SACD's and DVD movies.They seem to do it all for me.I'm driving them with B&K ST140's.They are rated at about 105wpc.I would like to use a little more power to get the 100hz bass right and tight.My little B&K's do ok, but they will probably be replaced with an amp that can control the mains a little better.I'm listening to crappy MP3's in dts NEO-6 and they sound great, that's tough to get.

I hope this helps,any questions don't hesitate.One more thing.Follow the whole thread and check out the support of the build in the process.Yer never left hanging.

PS After all the tweaks I ended up with the center on the front edge of the sub cabinets and the mains upfront also.

[gimpy]

Fryguy, I think the mtmww cost is a little more than even your extremis, if I am not mistaken (Approx $900-$1000 to your $800). Am I right on this or am I blowing smoke? The tmww comes in more around $460-$500 for the pair, I think.

pm me for just a little bit more info on the extremis.

Jim Holtz has finished the rs tmww towers by Dennis Murphy and thinks very highly of them.

Frank.

[ThomasW]

pm me for just a little bit more info on the extremis.

If you wanted to give him info in private you could PM'ed him instead of posting this statement. If you have info/option step up to the plate and post it.

[Dennis H]

Rated Xmax isn't everything. Keep in mind that the RS225 and especially the RS270 have much larger cones than the Extremis so they don't need the long stroke to get the SPL.

Mark K's distortion tests indicate the Extremis is a good bass driver but it's no giant killer. Here are the Extremis and the RS225 at the same SPL (94dB at .25m) with a 150Hz 3-tone stimulus. Note that the distortion products are much lower with the RS225. The third harmonics are -37dB (a bit over 1%) with the Extremis and -57dB (a bit over 0.1%) with the RS225.

He didn't test the RS270 at that frequency so you can't really compare directly but I would expect it to be decent as well. It did well against the Seas, Peerless and Usher drivers he compared it to.

http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/testing.htm

[cjd]

The MTMWW's are beyond the budget of the Extremis projects, particularly if you use quality caps everywhere, no 'lytics.

If you have the room, and are doing a hybrid 2-channel/surround setup, Brian's strategy is sound (MTMWW mains, WTMW CC with the smaller drivers, smaller surrounds). Which is why I suggested it before. The RS driver family has a fairly consistent voicing, so the RS150 vs. RS180 difference as midrange will not be an issue.

The designs I've heard with the Extremis had it crossing much higher and I was entirely underwhelmed. Seemed to have great bass response but it (to my ear) gave up a ton of micro-detail - kind-of how I imagine things would sound if everything were playing in a pool of honey. The WR125 was again in a 2-way and sounded pretty good. I don't doubt this is a design folks are very happy with. So, you're not going to hear me telling you NOT to go this route if it's what you want.

C

[Brian Bunge]

Chris,

You might like to know that the Palm Bay DIY Event was today. We were at Chuck's house all day long and had a great time. Listened to lots of good speakers and amps. Unfortunately only one of the guys came over to my place to listen to my system. The general concensus between the two of us (what a majority huh?) was that my speakers were easily the best of the day. Granted we're talking about a different amp in a different room, but the clarity and dynamics of the big 3-ways easily pushed them over the top.

We played a compilation CD with different soundtrack scores including the Imperial March from Star Wars along with Ashley's Pink Martini CD and a few other discs with nice vocals and dynamics. Ashley even admited that small monitors are nice for background music, but for real music listening large speakers are the only way to go! She even said, "I know I gave you a hard time about how big those things are, but I finally get it!"

I can now say without reservation: YOU DONE GOOD!!!

BTW, I won a pair of Dayton RS 2" mids! Can't wait to build something with these suckers!

[JonMarsh]

Chris,

You might like to know that the Palm Bay DIY Event was today. We were at Chuck's house all day long and had a great time. Listened to lots of good speakers and amps. Unfortunately only one of the guys came over to my place to listen to my system. The general concensus between the two of us (what a majority huh?) was that my speakers were easily the best of the day. Granted we're talking about a different amp in a different room, but the clarity and dynamics of the big 3-ways easily pushed them over the top.

We played a compilation CD with different soundtrack scores including the Imperial March from Star Wars along with Ashley's Pink Martini CD and a few other discs with nice vocals and dynamics. Ashley even admited that small monitors are nice for background music, but for real music listening large speakers are the only way to go! She even said, "I know I gave you a hard time about how big those things are, but I finally get it!"

I can now say without reservation: YOU DONE GOOD!!!

BTW, I won a pair of Dayton RS 2" mids! Can't wait to build something with these suckers!

:agree:

Let us know what you think of those mids after you have some time to play with them.

[Fryguy]

Ok, well I've been through the stickies for the most part regarding the 3 RS speakers, and you guys certainly have me convinced to go with them over Exodus stuff.

Now it's just making up my mind on what I actually want to put together.

I am very interested in the center speaker. From what I've read, Murphy's crossover seems to be the leading choice, or possibly Jim's. I'm certainly going to build one of these, most likely with a Murphy crossover, although I'd be willing to change this if somebody else's crossover matches better with some of the mains.

From what I understand, for the TMWW, there's only 2 versions, right? A sealed version with a Seas Tweet, and a ported version with an RS tweet? Jim seems to love the seas version, implying that it is a bit more "lively" than the RS tweet. This seems satisfactory to me for 2 reasons:

1. I have a subwoofer to cover the low-end anyway, so I only need to get response down to 50ish hz. No need to port.
2. I like speakers that are more lively and "aggressive"

My main concern is how is the seas version going to interact with the RS center? If it isn't a concern, who's center is going to best interact with Dennis' Seas mains? I'd assume Dennis' center; correct me if I'm wrong.

And for those saying the MTMWWs are out of budget: my budget isn't necessarily limited to the $800 + cabinets, so it's not much of a problem. And from my preliminary shopping, using an electrolytic for the big 250mfd cap for the time being I seemed to be in the 400-450 range per speaker, this using all polycaps, mix of solen and dayton, eagle resistors, and overall average to above average stuff.

The TMWWs are significantly cheaper, to the point where I could just build all 3 speakers right now (the original plan was to just build the mains now, and the center in a while, possibly couple of months). Has anyone heard the TMWW versus the big MTMWWs and can offer a comparison between the 2? Or can offer some advice on how well the Seas TMWW will voice with the RS center? For that matter, how well do the big MTMWWs voice with the RS center?

[cjd]

Fry:

If you go with the MTMWW's, I would suggest using either my crossover or Jon's for the WTMW CC, just because these are the closest to the crossover topology in the MTMWW's and will therefore have the most similar characteristics. Or so the theory goes.

Jim has built Dennis's crossover, and kge has built Curt's. I am not aware that anyone has built Jon's or mine.

I think Dennis is the only one with a published TMWW XO.

Some day I'll grab those files and add a TMWW crossover option. I know Curt has said the same thing.

And, sealed, ported, has NOTHING to do with the crossover. Pick the driver combo and crossover you want, pick the cabinet, assemble, be happy.

C

[Fryguy]

Yah I do realize this, I guess I wasn't thinking.

The sealed seas review seemed so glowing it's almost certainly what I would build if I decide to go with the TMWW. Any suggestions on which center will match up well with the Seas, if any?

Are the Seas and RS tweets physically interchangable? If I decided I did want to play, and swap out the crossovers and tweets, while keeping the exact same cabinets, would this be doable?

Also, I did some more shopping and priced out the big 3-ways using all solen caps (100 + 150 for the 250mfd), solen perfect lays for the 14ga inductors, and jantz 18ga for the others, along with eagle resistors. Price comes out to $475ish per speaker. Basically 2x as much as the TMWWs.

While I would love to just go all out and build the big 3-ways, which have a lot of benefits, including easier voicing to the center, that is a lot of extra money, and given an average living room, I'm not sure I'd realize the benefits of the big 3-ways, and their big sound might actually be detrimental. I dunno. I could always just EQ out room modes and not crank them that loud

So I guess it's sealed seas TMWWs versus MTMWW at this point. Probably leaning towards the MTMWWs because I will probably feel like I'm compromising by getting the TMWWs instead, and also because I'm (overly) worried about voice matching the center.

[cjd]

You know, I think I tend to include box construction and whatnot in pricing.

Which Seas tweeter are you talking? If it's the H1212 (think that's what Jim used) I can say that it's NOT consistent about liking or not quite being able to take that tweeter. My opinion of that tweeter is in disagreement with Jim's, as far as preference (though the Seas is an exceptional tweeter, so that's splitting hairs IMHO).

I'll have to double check flange diameter - they're close but I think not identical.

And, I suspect a version of any of these crossovers can be worked up that uses the Seas tweeter instead of the RS28A, MTMWW's and CC included.

C

[Jim Holtz]

Some thoughts...

Yah I do realize this, I guess I wasn't thinking.

The sealed seas review seemed so glowing it's almost certainly what I would build if I decide to go with the TMWW. Any suggestions on which center will match up well with the Seas, if any?

Are the Seas and RS tweets physically interchangable? If I decided I did want to play, and swap out the crossovers and tweets, while keeping the exact same cabinets, would this be doable?

Also, I did some more shopping and priced out the big 3-ways using all solen caps (100 + 150 for the 250mfd), solen perfect lays for the 14ga inductors, and jantz 18ga for the others, along with eagle resistors. Price comes out to $475ish per speaker. Basically 2x as much as the TMWWs.

While I would love to just go all out and build the big 3-ways, which have a lot of benefits, including easier voicing to the center, that is a lot of extra money, and given an average living room, I'm not sure I'd realize the benefits of the big 3-ways, and their big sound might actually be detrimental. I dunno. I could always just EQ out room modes and not crank them that loud

So I guess it's sealed seas TMWWs versus MTMWW at this point. Probably leaning towards the MTMWWs because I will probably feel like I'm compromising by getting the TMWWs instead, and also because I'm (overly) worried about voice matching the center.

Your concerns about the voicing of the center and the WWTM mains is nothing to worry about. The voicing is much more dependent on the crossover designer and the midrange than anything else, IMHO. Think about what the majority of the sound coming from the center is (voices) and you'll see wher I'm coming from. Simply build Dennis's center design and you'll have a perfect match.

Chris and I disagree on the H1212. He finds it fatiguing and I find it spot on. I also find the RS28 to be a bit dead in the top octave and he doesn't so a difference in opinion I think based on preferences. Actually, I had guests at my house last night and part of the evening was spent listening to the WWMT's. Feedback was overwhelmingly positive with comments about how great they sounded. The RS28 isn't a drop in but the 27TDFC is if you decide that the H1212 isn't what you want.

Some thoughts about the WWMTM vs. the WWMT. The RS270's will move a little more air than the RS225's but they don't go any deeper so you still need a sub for the bottom octave in home theater, IMHO. The difference between one RS150 and two is sensitivity and a slight difference in imaging. (MTM vs. T/M) Personally, I prefer T/M imaging over MTM but that's just me. I suspect that the WWMTM is a db or two more sensitive than the WWMT. Dennis said that the WWMT was around 88 db and never drops below about 5 ohms so it's an easy load.

Either design will give you great satisfaction. :T Take your pick!

Jim

[Dennis H]

Simply build Dennis's center design and you'll have a perfect match.

I wonder about that since they use different tweeters and he seems to have changed the crossover quite a bit in the towers. I'm thinking you could use the tower crossover and drivers in the center box. That is unless he did the center baffle step for wall mounting. I guess Dennis could answer that the best. I'd be curious to hear his recommendation.

[Fryguy]

So is if use the TMWWs, use Dennis' Center.

I have a subwoofer that is going to get crossed over to 60hz, so the need for a sub with both designs is satisfied. One thing I noticed is that the MTMWWs seem to drop off A LOT in response below 200hz. It seems to be ~4db down at 100hz, something that doesn't make sense to me with the displacement that 2 10s are capable of. This is from a simulated response, but still it seems like a severe drop off in frequency, almost to the point where there seems to be an error in the response.

Image not available

Can someone explain this pretty severe drop off above 100hz?

So, if I go with MTMWWs, use Chris' center, and if I go with TMWWs go with Dennis' center?

Anyone else have any opinions on which design I should go with?

Getting an amp to cover the 3ohm nominal load isn't really a problem (I'm a proponent of using pro audio ampliers for cost-benefit reasons, when I'm rich I'll upgrade ). Most pro amps can play 2ohm nominal loads, so these speakers shouldn't be a problem. I am looking for optimal musical reproduction that goes flat low enough to combine with a subwoofer playing from 60hz and down. Music, not theater.

[Hdale85]

Didnt they design a crossover to match up the the big 3 ways for the center? Thought John and i want to say Chris did?

[Jim Holtz]

I wonder about that since they use different tweeters and he seems to have changed the crossover quite a bit in the towers. I'm thinking you could use the tower crossover and drivers in the center box. That is unless he did the center baffle step for wall mounting. I guess Dennis could answer that the best. I'd be curious to hear his recommendation.

Hi Dennis,

If you've ever heard any of Dennis Murphy's designs, you'll know what I mean. Listen to a Salk Sound HT3, Salk Sound Veracity, Ellis 1801, MBOW1 or the RS 3-way, the voicing and presentation all have a very, very similar sound. Ultra clean, clear and smooth. Dennis spends many, many hours voicing and tweaking every design he does. If they're not right, he won't release them. :T

The reason, I said Dennis's center design and the WWMT's would be a perfect match is because all of the drivers are the same except for the tweeters. The RS28 and H1212 sound very similar except for the very top octave where the "air" lives. The RS28 takes a dump and the H1212 sails on smooth as can be. Dennis likes the H1212 enough that he's using it in some other designs.

Anyway, considering the differences and what a center does, my money says they'd be perfect. BTW, I'd talked to Dennis about doing a center with the H1212 but he acquired several other projects and it got pushed to the back.

Jim

[Dennis H]

Jim, if you get a chance, ask Dennis what he thinks would happen if you used the tower crossover on a center cabinet with the same drivers. The baffle width looks close enough for guv'mint work.

[cjd]

FryGuy: Ignore the bottom end response - measuring low frequency is a bear, particularly if you're trying to get good data up top. Since I was not concerned about that specifically (it's largely dictated by the box down low and my crossover is higher) I did not do the normal nearfield measurements and response splicing. Response will realistically be flat nice and low.

And, as Jim says, we disagree. I find the H1212 to be a bit hot and definitely fatigueing. Definitely a preference thing. My ears are good to ~18.5kHz or so. Doesn't mean you shouldn't consider that design.

The other thing Jim didn't mention is that you'll get less distortion as you push things loud with more surface area (i.e. more driver) so the MTMWW may go louder with less distortion. It's a lot of trade-offs, and neither is inadequate by any stretch.

If anything, it's like trying to pick which Ferrari you want.

Having heard some of Dennis Murphy's work, it's definitely good stuff.

C

[Brian Bunge]

So is if use the TMWWs, use Dennis' Center.

I have a subwoofer that is going to get crossed over to 60hz, so the need for a sub with both designs is satisfied. One thing I noticed is that the MTMWWs seem to drop off A LOT in response below 200hz. It seems to be ~4db down at 100hz, something that doesn't make sense to me with the displacement that 2 10s are capable of. This is from a simulated response, but still it seems like a severe drop off in frequency, almost to the point where there seems to be an error in the response.

Image not available

Can someone explain this pretty severe drop off above 100hz?

So, if I go with MTMWWs, use Chris' center, and if I go with TMWWs go with Dennis' center?

Anyone else have any opinions on which design I should go with?

Getting an amp to cover the 3ohm nominal load isn't really a problem (I'm a proponent of using pro audio amplifiers for cost-benefit reasons, when I'm rich I'll upgrade ). Most pro amps can play 2ohm nominal loads, so these speakers shouldn't be a problem. I am looking for optimal musical reproduction that goes flat low enough to combine with a subwoofer playing from 60hz and down. Music, not theater.

I can't speak specifically to that graph since it is a simulated response so Chris would have to give the details. But what I can say is, here is the measured in-room response that I took a few weeks ago.



You'll note that they still have strong output at 40Hz with still useable output into the 30's.

[cjd]

I think the gating you're using (Brian) is scrubbing a bit of the response below 300Hz too. Like I said, measuring bass response is a royal pain! That's one of the reasons MY graphs show weak(er) response on the bass end.

C

[Jim Holtz]

If anything, it's like trying to pick which Ferrari you want.

C

Chris,

You're going to have to figure out a way to get them big bad boys to this falls Chicago DIY event. I'll have Dennis's RS 3-ways there. We'll have a shoot out. So to speak of course.

They will be in different categories due to the cost difference but I'll be the under dog. :W

Actually, Scott Quick and I are going to see if see if we can get Dave to "Iowaize" the Chicago event a little. The laptops for feedback are nice but a lot of folks didn't take the time to enter the ratings for each speaker. When I hosted the Iowa event in 2004, we averaged 25 feedback forms per entry. A lot of paper work for me but I think there was some darn good feedback to the designers.

Best regards,

Jim

[Fryguy]

You mentioned the seas tweet ranges from "just right" to "a little hot" depending on who's listening. This sounds like the correct tweeter for me, as I prefer a more aggressive sound.

How is the bass/midbass response of the sealed TMWWs? With substantially less displacement (8s instead of 10s) it might lack some low-end. Also, what is power handling of each of these towers? Ignoring impedance, just power. is ~100watt for the TMWWs and maybe 150-200 for the MTMWWs about right? Obviously they'd get used to that extent little to never, but having the power on tap would be nice.

Someone put it into a good analogy "picking out which ferrari you want" And that certainly seems like the case. I would love to go overkill and get the MTMWWs, but with the TMWWs costing half as much and the MTMWWs being overkill and probably too much for the size living room I'm looking at (still appartment shopping so I don't know specifics), it's a tough choice.

Although I do have an 18" avalanche, so I know what overkill is

[Al Garay]

Fryguy,

You need to post this question in other boards where you are likely to find people who have built the Exodus kits, especially the LCR and 2641. You are giving up on them very quickly.

Try these forums:

Kevin Haskin's DIY Cable (Exodus dealer)

Kyle Richardson's Acoustic Visions (Exodus dealer)

Adire Audio

HomeTheaterTalk

Good luck,

Al

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