New 'semi' DIY power conditioning project.

[ThomasW]

Currently through Amazon.com, one can buy the $400 list price Monster HT3500II for under $150 delivered. Now this is nothing more than a glorified surge protector with some filtration. BUT for the price, it's a pretty nice chassis to add some substantial upgrades. (note that the Amazon.com offer is being sent from Parts Express)







Now usually I don't post about projects before they're built. But I doubt that this special offer is going to last long enough for me to get the device, make all the mods, test it out, then post the info. So if you're a bit of a gambler and want to play along, grab one of these and we'll see what develops. (If what we do is too weird for your tastes, you can return your non-modded unit or keep it as a pretty outlet strip)

Just for fun we may add-in a small balanced power transformer, if there's enough space inside the chassis.

PE p/n 122-720 $70+ shipping



For those noobs to the forum we've rebuilt other people power conditioners before..... http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw_2/T...tSoundKit.html

And we've built several low cost complete DIY power conditioners as well....http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw_2/CheapskateBP1.html

So we're not exactly starting off blind with this newest project....... :T

[dyazdani]

Cool! I currently own the next step up - HTS5000 unit. I will follow along, I'm sure the same concepts could be applied.

[ThomasW]

Pop the top and post a picture ....:wink:

[dyazdani]

Pop the top and post a picture ....:wink:

OK, I'll do it when I get home from work. It'll take me a while to unplug everything - I need to clean it up anyway...

[dyazdani]

(note that the Amazon.com offer is being sent from Parts Express)

That's crazy - PE is not selling it for that!

[---k---]

Thomas,

Humm, I'm intrigued. What kind of upgrades are you thinking about making? The first link seems to be upgrading to hospital grade recepticals and adding the EMC filters. You second link doesn't work.

[opt-e]

Ryan, the second link works if you remove the trailing "...".

This looks like an interesting project, too bad shipping from Amazon.com to Canada will cost a fortune and kill the value. :M Will definately be following this thread though.

[howburger]

I look forward to following this thread. BTW, I picked up a couple of them from Amazon when they had the $50 rebate per unit. Got 'em for $109 each after rebate.

[---k---]

Looks like Thomas fixed the second link. I've read it before. The thing that jumps out at me from that link, "DO NOT USE WITH RECIEVERS AND AMPS".

I've been looking at these and a couple of the other cheaper home theater surge protectors/conditions that come in standard recervie size housing or rack mount housing. Mainly, I was thinking that if nothing else, it would help clean things up a little behind my tv. But, I would probably like to plug my receiver and amp into it - unless someone can talk me out of this.

So, where Thomas intends to go will determine whether I jump in.

[howburger]

What I'm using them for is to route all my source components through them. I hate to sound like a blind sheep, but I swear I hear a difference from my CD and DVD players when running through them, slightly cleaner and not as grainy. If I am a blind sheep, at the very least it's protecting the equipment. From everything I've read and what I seemed to confirm, It is best to run high current amplifiers direct to a high current dedicated wall outlet. I've got a Rotel RMB1095, RB990BX and 2 Behringer EP2500's running directly into the wall and am this week looking into a whole house surge system. Again, I did seem to notice that my IB bass with music appeared to me to be more articulate at around 100DB when the EP2500 was plugged into the wall versus into the Monster. Just my opinion.

Harold

[dyazdani]

I run my main power amp through the 5000. It is noticeably quieter that way and I haven't noticed any downsides (yet) such as current bottlenecks.

[ThomasW]

That's crazy - PE is not selling it for that!

Yep as you know that's 1/2 PE's wholesale pricing

DO NOT USE WITH RECIEVERS AND AMPS

That just means they limit current. So they'd be fine powering front end gear, TV's, projectors, etc.

Humm, I'm intrigued. What kind of upgrades are you thinking about making? The first link seems to be upgrading to hospital grade recepticals and adding the EMC filters.

If people want to add commercial outlets they can. Hosp grade just have a different grounding scheme, otherwise they're the same as commercial grade outlets = higher clamping pressure and more rugged contacts.

The units have some form of RMI/RFI filters. Whether or not they can be recycled remains to be seen. My guess is that everything is mounted on PCB's and that may prove problematic with regard to recycling.

But, I would probably like to plug my receiver and amp into it - unless someone can talk me out of this.

Wait until Equi=tech has more of their special tranny deals. Those are great for powering receivers and big amps. If you don't want to wait grab one the the Plitron BP trannys I've used those on higher current draw items and they work fine. They aren't quite as good as the Equi=tech but they're less expensive.

I hate to sound like a blind sheep, but I swear I hear a difference from my CD and DVD players when running through them, slightly cleaner and not as grainy.

That's certainly possible. Gear with digital switching power supplies can dump noise back into the AC line. EMC (aka common mode) filters like those in the Monster remove that kind of noise.

From everything I've read and what I seemed to confirm, It is best to run high current amplifiers direct to a high current dedicated wall outlet.

Depends in the power conditioner. I have some HUGE Equi=tech balanced power trannys. They improve the sound when my big amps are plugged into them.

[---k---]

Wait until Equi=tech has more of their special tranny deals. Those are great for powering receivers and big amps. If you don't want to wait grab one the the Plitron BP trannys I've used those on higher current draw items and they work fine. They aren't quite as good as the Equi=tech but they're less expensive.

Wow, I looked at Equi=tech's price list . That stuff isn't cheap! And the Plitron looks like $250 for just the transformer. I think balanced power for my receiver and amp may be a ways off.

The Monster still intrests me for three reasons: it is a pretty box that would impress my friends because it has the name Monster on it, the needle and pretty led would entertain me , and it gives me a reasonably priced project to work on and stay out of trouble.

I guess I could still get it an play along, just not use it for the amps or not do the balanced power thing. I think I'll wait until tonight when Danish pulls the lid off and shows us the guts. Maybe that will reveal more of what is possible. So Danish...

[dyazdani]

The units have some form of RMI/RFI filters. Whether or not they can be recycled remains to be seen. My guess is that everything is mounted on PCB's and that may prove problematic with regard to recycling.

Good guess...

[dyazdani]

So Danish...

Ask and you shall receive :

Image not available

[ThomasW]

Thanks for the pic.... :T

Humm, this may not be as easy as I hoped. But....

The HT5000 looks to have a pretty good design. I don't think you'd want to play around with it.

For comparison the HT5000 weighs in at 12 lbs, the HT3500 is 4.9 lbs. So there's a lot fewer goodies in the HT3500.

In either case most of the front panel bells and whistles will be lost, unless I can cut the PCB and keep the side with the circuits for the switches, LED's etc. Cutting the board shouldn't be a problem if it's a just double sided as I imagine it is....

The caps and chokes could be recycled, as could the MOV pack. Given how cheap DC blocking caps are it may not be worth it to try and recycle the stock ones.

[dyazdani]

Thanks for the pic.... :T

The HT5000 looks to have a pretty good design. I don't think you'd want to play around with it.

Would you explain?

If you can't tell, the two outlet banks on the right (#1, 2) are for digital equipment. The one in the middle (#3) is for video, #4 is sort of a catch all (named "analog audio"), and #5 is for high current amps. This is all according to the labels on the chassis.

[howburger]

Thomas, if you'd like....

....when I get a chance I can open up one of my 3500's and post a picture of it. Let me know.

Harold

[ThomasW]

Would you explain?

It got a nice compliment of DC blocking caps, chokes, and if the black rectangular devices are ECM filters, then there's nothing more to add to make it work better.

If you're feeling flush buy the Plitron tranny linked to above. Place it into a separate chassis and plug the HT5000 into it.

when I get a chance I can open up one of my 3500's and post a picture of it. Let me know.

That would be a big help..... :T

Based on the pic so far my 'bright idea' de jour may not be practical. I hoped for a more modular design with an open area in the middle (circuitry and goodies in the front and back only). But for $150 I'll still play around when it gets here....

[dyazdani]

Found this on Google... original HTS 3500 (not MkII)

[ThomasW]

Danish,

In your HT5000 are the little black devices relays, or ECM filters? If they're relays they'll click when powered up. If they're filters the info should be printed in them. A close up pic would be handy, hint, hint.....

[dyazdani]

Danish,

In your HT5000 are the little black devices relays, or ECM filters? If they're relays they'll click when powered up. If they're filters the info should be printed in them. A close up pic would be handy, hint, hint.....

All the outlets have the option of delays, you can hear the relays make as things switch on and off.

I would guess that the two on the right are filters since they are on the outlets designed for digital components (and they look different). I put the top back on already, I need to eat and then I'll open her back up...

[ThomasW]

Thanks, no hurry...

Regarding upgrades to your unit.....

If there's room on the back panel (looks like there is) you could add a filtered IEC AC receptacle instead of the captured cord.

And you could add filters to the receptacles that don't have them. As you can see from my DIY projects, the filters are physically pretty small, so there should be room for them.

[howburger]

3500 MKIII Topless

Here is the 3500

[ThomasW]

Thanks, I hate to ask but can you do a much bigger higher rez pic?

You can email it to me ttriff@gmail.com

That appears to be a single layer board. And there's room in the chassis to move the board for those wanting to add more filtration.

[dyazdani]

They are all relays, the two on the right are simply a different kind.

So much for the special digital filtering they seem to imply...

[---k---]

In either case most of the front panel bells and whistles will be lost, unless I can cut the PCB and keep the side with the circuits for the switches, LED's etc. Cutting the board shouldn't be a problem if it's a just double sided as I imagine it is....

I like bells and whistles.

The picture that howburger posted makes it look like the 3500 is a much simplier unit and would be easier to cut the board, so maybe there is still hope.

Of course, as I sit here, I'm not sure where I would put this thing. All the space in my current a/v stand is full. Hummm...

[dyazdani]

Of course, as I sit here, I'm not sure where I would put this thing. All the space in my current a/v stand is full. Hummm...

I've got mine on the floor (well, on a piece of MDF), under my bottom rack. I'm also out of space and if I put it anywhere else, the cords don't all reach.

[ThomasW]

So much for the special digital filtering they seem to imply...

There's certainly room for IEC filtered AC input and with some creative placement I bet that you could put output filters in as well.

I like bells and whistles.

In the HT3500 there's plenty of room to add ECM filters without doing anything other than moving the PCB a bit to one side. That would leave everything in tact.

There's no room for a BP tranny in either unit without cutting the board and removing the AC filter section.

[howburger]

Thanks, I hate to ask but can you do a much bigger higher rez pic?

You can email it to me ttriff@gmail.com

That appears to be a single layer board. And there's room in the chassis to move the board for those wanting to add more filtration.

Thomas, you have mail.

[dyazdani]

There's no room for a BP tranny in either unit without cutting the board and removing the AC filter section.

Couldn't you make a balanced power unit and plug the HTSxxxx unit into it?

If I sell my bike (guy is supposed to try to get the money tomorrow), I'll probably buy a host of audio related goodies :T

I'm thinking - DIY balanced power unit, new IC cables, projector, and enough drivers and parts for the Modula MT ans possible the RS 3-ways.

[dyazdani]

Thomas, you have mail.

Ditto

[chasw98]

I bought my HTS 3500 on ebay around a month ago for less than $100.00 shipped and have 2 EP2500's, and 2 EP1500's hooked into the "high current" timed delay switched outlet. I also bought it for the 12 volt trigger mechanism in it. It has been working perfectly so far. I have not heard a difference in sound but I bought it for the 12V trigger and the time delay and switched outlets. I have already modified it to turn a solid state relay on & off that feeds power from a UPS to a unit so that I don't shut the UPS down and run down the batteries. But I'm up for butchering it some more and make it do more! The only problem I see with the large PCB is that some of the "bell and whistle" circuits are integrated into it (the AC meter, the relays, etc.) But I believe there is room to take some standoffs and raise the board up to gain some space underneath it. I'll be following this.

[ThomasW]

Got both emails thanks guys....

Couldn't you make a balanced power unit and plug the HTSxxxx unit into it?

Certainly. The Plitron I linked to can be put in a simple utility panel with an outlet, the HTxxxx can then be plugged into it. That would provide BP and the filtration of the HTxxxx

If a second outlet is added to the BP chassis a power amp or receiver can be plugged into it.

Danish,

Zooming in on your photo, it looks like there are ECM filters on the PCB where the black/white wires exit and go the the receptacles

[dyazdani]

You don't mean one of these do you?

Image not available

[ThomasW]

Yes, it's hard to tell for sure from the small photo or zooming in on larger one, but I bet they are.

I received notice from PE that the unit I ordered shipped today....

[dyazdani]

OK, they look kind of plain in person. I overlooked them as being simple terminal blocks...

[ThomasW]

They might be terminal blocks, I can't really tell from the photos. If they're filters, they should have text with specs.

[dyazdani]

They might be terminal blocks, I can't really tell from the photos. If they're filters, they should have text with specs.

That's why I thought terminal blocks, I couldn't find any evidence of specs. I can look again tomorrow.

[ThomasW]

Sometimes the theory is better than the reality. After examining the 3500 I think fullblown mods aren't worth the time/trouble, particularly if one wants to retain the bells, whistles and functionality the unit offers.

Instead of the individual relays on each AC receptacle like Danish's 5000, the 3500 has a pack of 3 MOV's with 2 fuses. So the 3500 is crude in this respect. Other than that the filtration is the same, and it's actually pretty good.

I had some split core clamp-on ferrite cores in the parts box, so I put some of those on the output receptacles where they'd fit. I also put one on the AC in. That makes the 3500 pretty close to the 5000. And that's the extend of any mods I intend to do.


Images not available


Those wanting more goodies should consider adding balanced power. A big tranny could provide power for the entire unit.

[wkhanna]

I recently bought a 3500 form buy.com when they had the $50 rebate offer.
It ended up ~$120 shipped.
So based on your expertise, TW, I assume we got what we paid for?
Also, are the split cores a RS item, or do I need to order form PE or other electronic supply house?
To be honest, I was getting really excited about the upcoming project, but if works pretty well, I guess I can put my time and $ into my sub project.
Thanks to all you guys for your efforts, this site is just incredible!

[ThomasW]

For the money they're certainly a good deal.

I think RS sells the smaller split cores, of course one pays a premium for them at RS.

http://www.bgmicro.com/search1.asp?page=6&cri=COL&stype=2

[wkhanna]

Thanks for the link,TW!

[JonMarsh]

Ask and you shall receive :

Image not available

You know, I wish you guys wouldn't post pictures of stuff like this on our site. Just looking at the box externally, it's not hard to resist, but when I see all those nice sense, geek greed gets the best of common sense.

well, I have an HTS 5100 Stage 4, v. 2.0 on the way, pretty cheap, $299. In some ways I think the 5000 is a bit cooler looking, (I like analog meters), but what the heck, the best I could find on one of those was $439. Hope the 5100 is as gutsy on the inside, or man am I going to be disappointed.

~Jon

[dyazdani]

Hope the 5100 is as gutsy on the inside, or man am I going to be disappointed.

I can always trade you my 5000... I'm sure you have enough "geek" stuff around the house I'd want :lol: