Big Block SoundSplinter 15" RL-p

[steve nn]

After my last experience with building the two sealed 3.9 cu ft enclosures and incorporating the mono BASSIS.. I figured it time to explore how the SoundSplinter 15" RL-p driver would do in the vented design. My first impressions right out of the shoot is very nice..nothing not to like.

It stands 39" tall and measures 20"W X 20"D 7.5 cu ft enclosure, with a tuning point that I think will come in at close to 17 Hz.. if not slightly lower? It's not what I would call pretty being that it's still in it's rough MDF form, but I had to give it a run to see how much effort (if any) that I wanted to put into the finish process.

Build time 16 hrs not counting HD or tracking down the port...I'm keeping track. With the few hrs I had to demo it with using GLADIATOR, MATRIX RELOADED and EAGLES "hell freezes over" for material..I'll most likely be associating it (in my mind anyway) with some of the better options I have ran.

I would like to pay tribute and a special Thanks to Ilkka Rissanen for simming it up for me along with your suggestions. The first thing that comes to mind in doing the vented design this time around, although I have ran plenty in the past...is the free gain coming from that 6" port...heck the driver is hardly moving while putting out 'substantial SPL...I figured, but none the same with running sealed for awhile..

As you can see, I love long leads.

[dyazdani]

Nice! I bet that guy is heavy!

[steve nn]

Nice! I bet that guy is heavy!

Well it's not to bad as subs go...maybe around 150 lbs. I just went one layer of 3/4 MDF with bracing of course. I loaded the driver in the house.. so getting the unit from the garage into the house with a handcart was very easy. I don't mean to imply that it's a micro sub though. :W

[---k---]

And how on earth are you going to put the second one on top with the port sticking out the top??? :B

Looking forward to your listening impressions.

[steve nn]

And how on earth are you going to put the second one on top with the port sticking out the top???

Hey Ryan,
ha ha..No it doesn't stick out, well it's there though. This is my first experience with a 6" port and man is it big! No need to go dual with this big guy..this thing is a brute.

Looking forward to your listening impressions.

From what little I've tasted so far, I have no complaints. I'll definitely give you more detail as I have more time with it and also checkout the FR response. You must be getting close to taking on another project no? :lol:

[chasw98]

You should put some extended deep bass material and put your hand over the port. I was amazed at the amount of air coming out of it. Back to the topic, how does it compare to your sealed models? Which do you like better? Waiting to hear.

Chuck

PS: Did you put any material on the inside walls of the unit?

[---k---]

You must be getting close to taking on another project no? :lol:

No, no, no. My wife would kill me right now. I got to build my subs, it is now time to do some of her projects.

I originally built sealed subs because they are easy and the size was right. But, there is always this part of me that wonders how a ported would sound. It wouldn't cost me too much to build another box, just to scratch that itch for knowladge.

But, that needs to wait a while. For now, I'll just live through your ears.

[steve nn]

Back to the topic, how does it compare to your sealed models? Which do you like better? Waiting to hear.

My history definitely leans towards the vented design, but a good sealed unit is quite a delight also. I can make my sealed units sound very close to a vented design with the BASSIS (if I like) for that matter. I think I really like both if the sealed is done properly and if the vented is tuned from 16 to 18 Hz. A good performing sealed is going to set a guy back a little further $$ wise though. Which do I like better?? Gosh that's a hard one. My bass has been as good as it's ever been after implementing the BASSIS with the dual 3.9 cu ft sealed 15's, but there's something about the vented design also. The most honest answer I could give you it's great having both and not having to make that decision. I've certainly spent a good deal in the past.. in trying to figure that out.

PS: Did you put any material on the inside walls of the unit?

Not a scrap! That's not saying I wont in the future, but I wanted to try this out first. So far so good. No standing waves that I can hear along with timing/GD. Ring?.. there is no ring..the first of the Eagles always bares this out from past demo's. After I check out the FR and make any adjustments?? it might be a benefit, but then maybe not? Many of the subs I've opened up in the past haven't had any lining or it's very selectively placed, I think I understand this better now after playing with lining and fill myself.

[ThomasW]

I would like to pay tribute and a special Thanks to Ilkka Rissanen for simming it up for me along with your suggestions

Might compare yours to the AS-15, I think you'll seem some similarities....:W

Using a ported alignment you won't need to buy a bigger amp....

[steve nn]

No, no, no. My wife would kill me right now. I got to build my subs, it is now time to do some of her projects. I originally built sealed subs because they are easy and the size was right. But, there is always this part of me that wonders how a ported would sound. It wouldn't cost me too much to build another box, just to scratch that itch for knowladge.

I can surly understand that Ryan. A wife is a good thing, but oo can they get in the way. If you do get the chance, it would be a good idea imo if you picked up the DEQ2496 or the mono BASSIS... you would get quite a gain out of what you run now also. Having both options around the house should alleviate any wondering while giving you plenty to play with.

But, that needs to wait a while. For now, I'll just live through your ears.

I was hoping you could confirm my ears though. 8)

[steve nn]

I think you'll seem some similarities....

I was wondering what you were going to chime in with Thomas

Nope..not to many similarities except tuning. I've seen that sub before and what a beautiful sub it is! When I decide to over-build a sub, it's going to be a little 16" cube or something on the smaller side that I can get in the house. kapish

[ThomasW]

Nope..not to many similarities except tuning.

If one adjusts for the differences in construction, the net box sizes are pretty similar as well....

When making recommendations to people about what subwoofer they should built, it's always a crap-shoot given the differences in taste. The nice thing about DIY is the ability to compare alignments, since the materials cost in minimal, and the primary investment is 'sweat-equity'.... :T

[steve nn]

If one adjusts for the differences in construction, the net box sizes are pretty similar as well....

I look forward to seeing how it fairs with the meter later today. I'm pretty confident from my little listening session last-night though. Thank you for the Kudos Thomas... 8)

When making recommendations to people about what subwoofer they should built, it's always a crap-shoot given the differences in taste. The nice thing about DIY is the ability to compare alignments, since the materials cost in minimal, and the primary investment is 'sweat-equity'....

Oh that's so true. One mans 17 Hz tuned sub is another mans garbage in favor of a 25 Hz tuned sub. Apply that to sealed, vented..you insert the alignment. When a guy has already invested in a pro amp, or the like and has eq, the possibilities are endless in what he can do with a 100-150 bill that would go for $1000-2000 retail. Well said Thomas.

[Ilkka]

Just copying my reply from HTF.
----------------------------------
Wow Steve! I thought you were joking about building it up only in one day. That is one sweet looking vented box. I don't know how much bracing you put in, but if the final net volume is more closer to 7 cu ft and you used the vent length I suggested, Fb will be around 16.7 Hz. But of course the exact diameter and length of the vent affects too. If you had for example TrueRTA, it would be pretty easy to measure the exact Fb. You can of course play some sine waves and check the cone movement with your finger. The frequency where cone moves the least is your tuning frequency.

Simulation predicts that you have around 4-8 dB more output in 15-30 Hz range compared to a single sealed sub (3.9 cu ft box).

How did the flare turn out?

[steve nn]

Just copying my reply from HTF.

Me to, just once.

I don't know how much bracing you put in, but if the final net volume is more closer to 7 cu ft and you used the vent length I suggested, Fb will be around 16.7 Hz. But of course the exact diameter and length of the vent affects too.

What I need to do is measure the cutouts of the bracing and then I think I should be able to give you a pretty accurate cu ft number. I know it's very close to (or under) 17 though. I did hold true to the port length, so we'll see? From the demo I did last-night with three different disks it's all good. Wouldn't a NF measurement give us a good idea though come to think of it?

Simulation predicts that you have around 4-8 dB more output in 15-30 Hz range compared to a single sealed sub (3.9 cu ft box).

It definitely would and does, but are you factoring in the mono BASSIS? That would equate out to headroom is what I think you mean to convey? Two of these guys (vented option) might be something in order for Frank..but then he already has a handful

How did the flare turn out?

I decided against it for now. I wound up cutting my thumb on the table saw.. familiarity and table saw dont go very well together. I know better to..

Anyway I think once I dress it up in Cherry veneer or the like, it should look pretty good along with great SQ.

[Ilkka]

Answered to HTF. Man, we need to keep this on one forum only.

[ThomasW]

You don't need to bother with the calculations for the bracing now that the box is built.

Measure the Fb and work backward from there if you really want to know the exact Vb

[Ilkka]

You don't need to bother with the calculations for the bracing now that the box is built.

Measure the Fb and work backward from there if you really want to know the exact Vb

Yep, that is true and more accurate too.

[SteveCallas]

Nicely done, aside from a different port type and orientation, looks a bit like an Axiom 600. That very first picture has me wondering how much room there is between the interior end of the port and the nearest boundary? Looking forward to more impressions :T

[steve nn]

You don't need to bother with the calculations for the bracing now that the box is built.

Less math is good when I can measure instead. Reason will rule then.

[steve nn]

That very first picture has me wondering how much room there is between the interior end of the port and the nearest boundary?

That's a good question Steve. I can confidently say it's enough at the MV levels I've been at so far. The inside of the port is 2 3/4" away from the inside wall on each side.

[SteveCallas]

Ok, sounds good. Another question , will you be making any kind of port cover? A guest may accidentally use it as an end table and something like stray M&Ms, coins, remote controls, or even a wallet could fall in.

[ssabripo]

Looking Good Steve(nn)....

The inner "boundary" of the port will affected by the bottom plate distance, and not so much from the sides, so you will be fine. The important thing is to have enough clearance at the direct entrance point of view. The sides, as long as you have enough "breathing room" (which you do with at least 2"), are not going to be a problem.

Here is my sides (fairly close as you can see), and it's just fine:

Image not available

[ThomasW]

When the situation permits, it's optimal to have the port spaced a distance equal to it's diameter from all interior surfaces. That combined with a properly sized port, guarantees no chuffing.

[steve nn]

Another question , will you be making any kind of port cover? A guest may accidentally use it as an end table and something like stray M&Ms, coins, remote controls, or even a wallet could fall in.

I hear yeah man..that 6" port could just about take football! :P

The inner "boundary" of the port will affected by the bottom plate distance, and not so much from the sides, so you will be fine. The important thing is to have enough clearance at the direct entrance point of view. The sides, as long as you have enough "breathing room" (which you do with at least 2"), are not going to be a problem.

Sherv that sure is a nice sub you built there. I need to backtrack in your Thread and read up a little more on it. Isn't it a kick the AV-15 driver? You know I made a post earlier regarding sealed versus vented...after yesterday.. I think I'll revert to vented being my choice if I had to choose a one sub option. I gave the sealed option my best effort and the way I went about it was the best way I could think of. Definitely the most articulate bass I've ever experienced, but!...if a guy has a one choice option and he leans towards HT not forgetting what you get for the $$...I'm ready to admit vented is the way to go imo and of course that's just my opinion..

I'm afraid Thomas got the best of me with that link :rofl:..so it's all out on the next sub, but that's all I'm going to say for now except think big and fancy. I definitely don't need it, but I woke up this morning with the drive. :sos:

[ThomasW]

I'm afraid Thomas got the best of me with that link ..so it's all out on the next sub, but that's all I'm going to say for now except think big and fancy. I definitely don't need it, but I woke up this morning with the drive.

Were I building the AS-15 now there are some things I'd change, nothing major. So before you start cutting wood, start a thread and we'll discuss it.

[---k---]

Definitely the most articulate bass I've ever experienced, but!...if a guy has a one choice option and he leans towards HT not forgetting what you get for the $$...I'm ready to admit vented is the way to go imo and of course that's just my opinion..

So, that is just bassed on output/$$? I mean, you could alway build 2 more 15" sealed subs.

[SteveCallas]

You know I made a post earlier regarding sealed versus vented...after yesterday.. I think I'll revert to vented being my choice if I had to choose a one sub option. I gave the sealed option my best effort and the way I went about it was the best way I could think of. Definitely the most articulate bass I've ever experienced, but!...if a guy has a one choice option and he leans towards HT not forgetting what you get for the $$...I'm ready to admit vented is the way to go imo and of course that's just my opinion..

Theoretically/logically speaking, if using a quality driver in a large ported enclosure that is tuned pretty low, you really are getting your cake and eating it too with a ported design. My unscientific listening experiments going from sealed to ported using music didn't reveal any significant differences in sound quality with most bass - when it comes to the low stuff though, ported is just more powerful (insert Tim Allen grunts).

There seems to be early seedlings of a "club" forming, a club of folks with large vented sonosubs using high quality drivers and low tuning. Chasw, HMenke, DocHoliday, JonW, and myself so far. We are rapidly growing in powe...I mean number. No more worries about port interiors being too close to boundaries or having to brace heavily to eliminate unwanted resonances. We get small footprints and finished products that don't weigh more than you do. Given any consideration to ditching the labor-intensive box and joining the club Steve? :lol:

[HMenke]

There seems to be early seedlings of a "club" forming, a club of folks with large vented sonosubs using high quality drivers and low tuning. Chasw, HMenke, DocHoliday, JonW, and myself so far. We are rapidly growing in powe...I mean number.

Church of the Big Tube?

Theoretically/logically speaking, if using a quality driver in a large ported enclosure that is tuned pretty low, you really are getting your cake and eating it too with a ported design.

I'll second that Brother Callas! 8)

- Brother Menke

[steve nn]

Were I building the AS-15 now there are some things I'd change, nothing major. So before you start cutting wood, start a thread and we'll discuss it.

Ok Thanks Thomas. As a prelude.. be thinking dual 15" drivers though. This will be my final (out in the main) sub and I want Thank you for your offer.

So, that is just bassed on output/$$? I mean, you could alway build 2 more 15" sealed subs.

I certainly could Ryan, but I think the best way to put it is I'm used to bass that is a little rounder and not quite so much in your face. Plus the fact that I like the idea of the free gain associated with the vented design...it just seems so effortless, if that makes sense?.. I don't like seeing the drivers working so hard.

Given any consideration to ditching the labor-intensive box and joining the club Steve? :lol:

Your a hoot Steve..I always enjoy your posts..Nope I'm afraid I like the idea of cutting wood and getting real creative this time around. I will do a tube sometime though and when I do.. you'll be first on the list as far as advise goes. This sub I just built is kind of like a square tube though.:lol: We figured the tuning to be closer to 16 rather than 17. That's been my favorite tune so far as with the Ultra's. This thing I just built can move some serious air! I cant imagine what the dual driver unit will do with doubling the enclosure, port and watts?.. :E I need to be sure and jot down the numbers before I pull the driver.

[---k---]

I find it interesting that Brother Callas says that if you build your ported large enough, there isn't a significant differance between sealed and ported. I've heard his sermon on this before, and his logic sound. But here with have Brother NN saying that he likes the more rounded bass sound of a ported sub as opposed to the in-your-face sound of the ported. Hummmm...

We got one of three scenerios:

1. Brother NN didn't build his sub big enough!

or

2. Brother Callas's ears are deceiving him, and he doesn't have a clue.

or

3. Brother NN's ears are deceiving him, and he doesn't have a clue.

I'm going to defer to Father Thomas.

[chasw98]

I assume Purdue will hereafter be known as "Mecca"

Brother Chuck

[HMenke]

I assume Purdue will hereafter be known as "Mecca"

Brother Chuck

For it is written, "He came from the middle of the west, and he was called The Boilermaker."

Brother Menke

[ThomasW]

A huge EBS alignment may indeed be the best 'portable' sub. And a tube sub is the only reasonable way to create this, unless one happens to have a forklift parked in the garage.... :wink:

Unfortunately space concerns, and or SAF/WAF all to often eliminate this design from consideration.

[Brian Bunge]

I'm still quite fond of sealed subs with flat in room response to 10Hz and below. I'm thinking either 2 or 4 of these drivers hidden out of sight in a credenza style cabinet with a Behringer amp and some form of EQ. I've got a nice big wall that's just screaming for a piece of furniture like that and this might just be the way kill 2 birds with one stone. Unfortunately, other projects require attention and finances before this one. . .

[bobgpsr]

Plus the fact that I like the idea of the free gain associated with the vented design...it just seems so effortless, if that makes sense?.. I don't like seeing the drivers working so hard.

Get both the bass reflex gain and no port noise --- for a few $ more --> PRs

Heretic Purdue grad - there is always one.

[dyazdani]

Unfortunately, other projects require attention and finances before this one. . .

If I had a nickel for every time I've been there...

[Brian Bunge]

Please, please, please....do not get Thomas started talking about PR's....

Not to mention that it's hardly JUST a few $ more, assuming you can even find appropriate PR's.

[ThomasW]

John J assures me the newest PR's are better than my experiences with them in the past. Sometime this summer he's going to ship out some for me to play with. That being said, at this point I can't recommend them if SQ is a priority.

[Dennis H]

Yeah, when the PR costs about as much as the driver, buy two drivers....

[SteveCallas]

I'll second that Brother Callas!

- Brother Menke

I'm going to defer to Father Thomas.

I assume Purdue will hereafter be known as "Mecca"

Brother Chuck

For it is written, "He came from the middle of the west, and he was called The Boilermaker."

Brother Menke

Heretic Purdue grad - there is always one.

Brother Steve spent the evening worshipping at the baseplate of the mighty tube ;x( and he missed all of this humor - hillarious stuff guys :rofl:

---k---, my ears do not deceive me, my sub when sealed naturally has a Q of .565 - Steve nn was using a combination of a linkwitz and EQ to shape and optimize the output of his sealed sub, differences are to be expected.

You've heard my logic behind such a design before, so I won't get into it again, but if any points seem unsound (pardon the pun), I'm more than happy to discuss it. If you ever get tempted enough, and you find your low end lacking, I say go for it and join the club.

[Dennis H]

Yeah yeah yeah.....

Dollars aside, if you can handle something twice the size of my water heater, four smallish, stacked, sealed boxes, with an LT, will kick serious bootie on one ported tower of power.

[chasw98]

Yeah yeah yeah.....

Dollars aside, if you can handle something twice the size of my water heater, four smallish, stacked, sealed boxes, with an LT, will kick serious bootie on one ported tower of power.

Mmmmmmmmm......... A naysayer in our midst :E

[HMenke]

Dollars aside, if you can handle something twice the size of my water heater, four smallish, stacked, sealed boxes, with an LT, will kick serious bootie on one ported tower of power.

Infidel! Dollars considered, four ported towers of power will annihilate four smallish, stacked, sealed boxes. :B

[bobgpsr]

Please, please, please....do not get Thomas started talking about PR's....

Not to mention that it's hardly JUST a few $ more, assuming you can even find appropriate PR's.

They are a bit more than a few $. I spent $300 for two 18" PRs from Acoustic Elegance (John J and Deon B). 38 mm one way Xmax, 2500 grams mms, Fs 3.36 Hz. My 200L BB box using a Tumult 15D2 came out to be tuned at 15 Hz as measured by close miking with TrueRTA. Group delay/impulse response is a little bit worse than an equivalent ported sub. But with the tuning so low -- then how is "music" at 25 Hz and up affected?

Bob