Can a sealed DIY sub beat a Servo 15 ?

[Jose_L]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for opinions if it's worth building a sealed sub that will beat the performance of a Paradigm Servo15 sub.

I've chosen a Ada1200w plate amp $600 and would build a 5^ft enclosure.

Now I'm looking at the AV15 $180, SS RL-p15d2 $269, SS RL-s15 $580 and the Tumult 15d2 $600.

Guessing that the Tumult is the best driver listed,
(I don't know) that would put the cost over $1200 + shipping before I even build the cabinet .

So is it worth it ?

Originaly I thought I could get a RL-p15 w/ a Dayton 1000w amp for about $670, but w/ the rumble filter set high on the Dayton amp I decided to go w/ the ADA amp. Things get real expensive real fast.. :E

What do you guys think ?

Regards,
Jose

[dyazdani]

I can't answer the performance question...

I am building a RL-p15 based sub as well. I bought a Behringer EP2500 for under $300 that I believe will do the job nicely. Only thing is that it is not a plate amp.

[---k---]

Considering a Servo15v2 is $2500MSRP, is what you've given for DIY really that expensive?

Thomas has stated that my sub would run ~$2000 retail. So, take that for what it is.

I've breifly heard the Servo in a very small dealer demo room, and comparing it to mine, I would say that a RL-P15 w/ the ADA amp would be very competive in terms of output and extension. I can't tell you whether the Paradigm driver and servo mechanism makes the Servo sound better. But, I think as long as you arn't driving your DIY sub that hard, you wouldn't have any non-linear distortion problems, so they again would probably be very competive.

[Bent]

If I could just find the time to get at my new project, I'd be able to tell you how a dual RL-p D4 driven with an ADA 1200 works...

[ThomasW]

1)You certainly don't want a RL-s15" unless your goal is car dB drag racing!
2)AV15"s are unavailable

And..........

You need to decide the worth of your labor, and whether this is a $700 budget or something that's more in line with the cost of a Servo15.

[Jose_L]

Ok, scratch the AV15 and the RL-s15 ...

I can get a Servo15 for $1750 locally. I had set my budget at $1500 . I originally wanted to get a SVS plus/2 ($1400).

So that leaves the RL-p15 & the Tumult 15" ..

Bent,

I didn't know you had to solder the 1200's LT & adj. Rumble Filter .

Also, is there a problem mounting the ADA amp in a sealed enclosure ? My walls would be 1.5" thick and the amp would be in it's own enclosed cavity w/in the sub..

I did find a mod for the Dayton 1000w plate amp. maybe this would be the way to go since I'd have to solder anyway ?

http://maxhawk.bravepages.com/projects/subwooferamp/

Regards,
Jose

[ThomasW]

Well the Tumult is "probably" a better driver. I qualify that because I've never heard one.

Since I like to change things around to mess with people's heads, here's my suggestion.....

A pair of Oaudio 12" TC2+ (mounted in one box) will give you more output than a single RL-p15" and cost much less than a Tumult. The distortion will be lower than a RL-p15 (how audible this would be isn't clear). And placed in a smallish box with an LT circuit they should be pretty damn good...... Certainly lay waste to a Servo15

[Jose_L]

Thomas,

How small of a box(s) would you go ? And which amp ? the Ada ? Or is there a fanless pro amp available ?

Regards,
Jose

[---k---]

Since I like to change things around to mess with people's heads, here's my suggestion.....

Hey, that's my head you are messing with. You're evil!



Shoot, why not put two RL-P15 in one 22" cube with a 1200W amp and LT.
(That is very similar with someone's to-be-released this summer $2000 sub)

BTW, I saw an interesting post over at AVS by Kyle from TC sounds:

http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7338760&&#post7338760

If you want to best the SVS Ultra driver, run a RL-s 12" or 15" in a bass reflex. It’s not cheap, but it will do 3.75" peak to peak max excursion and maintain linear force the entire way. Its capabilities are still much uncharted. Because of its linearity, the force around xmax is still high so it can turn around much faster and hold a huge advantage in THD. We're working on a successor to that driver with a newer VC with even more linearized force, maybe a neo motor (maybe).

[steve nn]

If you wanted to consider the ACI Maestro is very close in performance of the Servo15, I can vouch that the RL-p will hold it's own minus THD. It comes in higher than all previous subs I have measured... some are reflected below. You will need some form of eq for the lower FR though, as they also employ.

[DarrenE]

Thomas,

How small of a box(s) would you go ? And which amp ? the Ada ? Or is there a fanless pro amp available ?

Regards,
Jose

I just bought a used Crown K1 on Ebay for $570 including shipping. It is fanless. My purchase was a pretty rare price for the amp. I was only able to get that price because the paint was all scratched up. See the last page of my "Ridicubass" thread for pictures. I watched for several months before I was able to get such a deal. (Hopefully I will still think it's a good deal after I get it.) If you see something like that make sure you don't post here about it before you win the auction or you might end up in a bidding war with others that you clued in to the auction. :W

[ThomasW]

Hey, that's my head you are messing with. You're evil!

And proud of it..... :B

If you want to best the SVS Ultra driver, run a RL-s 12" or 15" in a bass reflex. It’s not cheap, but it will do 3.75" peak to peak max excursion and maintain linear force the entire way.

That's NUTS, those drivers have a Qts of almost 1.0!

Perfect for your local car audio shootout.

How small of a box(s) would you go ?

I'll run a couple sims tonight and post them in the morning

[SteveCallas]

I'm looking for opinions if it's worth building a sealed sub that will beat the performance of a Paradigm Servo15 sub.

So is it worth it ?

What do you guys think ?

You just can't bite the bullet huh? Where's the faith?

[steve nn]

Where's the faith?

chuckle

[Jose_L]

We'll right now I'm leaning toward not getting the ADA amp because of some complaint's of burning fuses.. and of course the soldering...

This is what I'm considering:

#1) 2 - O Audio 12" drivers w/ 2 - 500w BASH amps. 2 sep enclosures

#2) 2 - RL-p15/AV15 w/ 2 Dayton 1000w amps , 2 sep. enclosures (found the AV15 for $180)

#3) 2 - RL-p15/AV15 w/ a Crown K1 $1049 new

It looks like the 2 - 12" enclosures would be the smallest, and the 2- 15" enclosures w/ the K1 would be the best performer, right ?

Guys, I will build something, just nervous about what I build.

Regards,
Jose

[ThomasW]

It looks like the 2 - 12" enclosures would be the smallest, and the 2- 15" enclosures w/ the K1 would be the best performer, right

All other things being equal dual 15" are going to move more air than a pair of 12"s

(found the AV15 for $180)

The online store may show them, but I don't think John actually has any in stock

You've seen the dual 15" projects done here recently. If having cabinets that size is not a problem, then that's the best choice. They could be put in a single cab somewhat smaller and forced to play low with a LT circuit. But it's going to take a K2 not a K1 to power that setup.

[Jose_L]

Thanks,

Well the K2 is >$1500, so I'm back to a plate amp for each box..

Maybe I could mod the Dayton's rumble filter..

That would get 2 - RL-p15 w/ 2 - Dayton's 1000w amps.

BTW, Is a rumble filter that bad in a sealed enclosure ?
Am I worrying about nothing ?

Regards,
Jose

[peterS]

And proud of it..... :B
That's NUTS, those drivers have a Qts of almost 1.0!

Perfect for your local car audio shootout.

I'll run a couple sims tonight and post them in the morning

here is a vid for those who havnt seen what tc sounds LMT tech woofers can do
:E

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/videos/SoundSplinter/rls12.5.wmv

[ThomasW]

A rumble filter isn't needed in a small sealed box since the box itself acts as an acoustic hi-pass filter. One can change the rumble filters in most amps to something low like 5-10Hz. That provides some protection and doesn't get in the way.

[peterS]

A rumble filter isn't needed in a small sealed box since the box itself acts as an acoustic hi-pass filter. One can change the rumble filters in most amps to something low like 5-10Hz. That provides some protection and doesn't get in the way.

could you explain the need for a 'rumble filter'
i am only familiar with a subsonic filter in car audio and that was only usefull in high spl ported enclosures for the rare instance material played below tuning freq.
i assume these subsonic frequencies are more prevalent in movies than music but im not sure i fully understand its importance in a home set up

[ThomasW]

Rumble (term from the days of warped records) = subsonic, used for the same reasons with ported home designs, to protect the driver from unloading.

[peterS]

Rumble (term from the days of warped records) = subsonic, used for the same reasons with ported home designs, to protect the driver from unloading.

thanks just wanted to make sure

[SteveCallas]

Two SS RLp dual 2 ohm 15" drivers in two enclosures, each powered by a 1000 watt plate amp sounds like a winner to me. Just make sure you get that rumble filter lowered quite a bit from 20hz.

[Jose_L]

BTW,

Does anyone sell a 1000w Bash plate amp ?

The 500w really has nice features.

What do you guys think of the Samson S700 amp ?
It has 350w/ch @ 4ohm, that would put me at 700w w/ the RL-p15d4 driver ..

Also found the Samson SX1200 amp 450w/ch same price.

Anyone w/ experience w/ these amps ?

Regards,
Jose

[mattburk]

Corect me if I am wrong but I think the adire plate amps are the best plate amps out right now.

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofer_amplifiers/adire_ada/

[dyazdani]

What do you guys think of the Samson S700 amp ?
It has 350w/ch @ 4ohm, that would put me at 700w w/ the RL-p15d4 driver ..

I had a S700 a while back as part of a package from SVS (I used to have their biggest "tube" sub). I now have a Behringer EP2500 which is more powerful, I haven't had a chance to try it out though - I need to finish my project...

[Jose_L]

dyazdani,

Was the S700 loud, could you notice the fans running during a quiet passage in a movie ?

[dyazdani]

I did not notice the fan noise during operation of the S700.