Colossi

[Jack Gilvey]

Sorry if I this was posted, but this was made for you guys.

http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/colossi/index.html

RD50, Dayton RS, active tri-amping...cool.

[JonMarsh]

No, it hasn't been posted. I saw this earlier this week. More than a superficial resemblance to a design idea we kicked around here about three years ago... I just don't do big boxes anymore. It's funny that he won't publish any of the info about the active crossover settings and configuration.

It's also funny what his main goal was:

In this situation the main goal of the design was purely aesthetic: to create a speaker with great visual impact while at the same time showcasing the speaker building aspect of Parts Express’s business.

But he acknowledges he did try to "infuse some legitmate Speaker Building principels into the design." (the caps are Darren's)

Curious that he went even higher in crossover point than I recommended to Thomas- 1200 Hz is pretty high for the RD50. But look at how close the RD is to the baffle edge- he doesn't really have much of a baffle launch for the RD, and this hurts the frequency response and performance "down low".

At least it wasn't like most of the line arrays on PE Support which just have a single tweeter in the middle of a midwoofer array. :nonod:

So, as regards Darren, and this design, I presume he knows better, but just chose not to do better. A little odd....

[ThomasW]

Yep Jon and I chatted about this design yesterday.

The nice thing is that using the Behringer XO one can easily lower the XO point to something more appropriate (hint: 500Hz-650Hz is nice).

To bad there's no baffle step compensation in the design.

And why use the RS150s?

Just use a line array of RS180's and forget about the 10"s..... :wink:

[Jack Gilvey]

It's also funny what his main goal was:

That is funny. "Well, they wanted a big speaker to put on the cover, but I'll try to make it sound pretty good, too."

[PMazz]

I read thru this one as well. Curious choices. I was hoping to see a passive xover and was surprised to see it all active as well as the xover freqs. He also used a Behringer xover and a BFD to handle all the xover/EQ duty. He does say he wanted to use a digital xover to do it all but they have been out of stock.

I can't see too many folks building this one.....

Pete

[JonMarsh]

That is funny. "Well, they wanted a big speaker to put on the cover, but I'll try to make it sound pretty good, too."

Ah, so your secret decoder ring IS working, Jack! :B

[cjd]

Folks that heard these liked them. There's no accounting for taste I guess. I mean, Paradigm remains in business. Not to mention Bose. . .

It looks impressive and I guess that's what counts.

I heard "Big Box" and was surprised that the only thing big was the height, and they're not really that tall. A mere 22" taller than my 3-ways. Ok, so that's not exactly nothing. But...

nevermind.

C

[JonMarsh]

I read thru this one as well. Curious choices. I was hoping to see a passive xover and was surprised to see it all active as well as the xover freqs. He also used a Behringer xover and a BFD to handle all the xover/EQ duty. He does say he wanted to use a digital xover to do it all but they have been out of stock.

I can't see too many folks building this one.....

Pete

Yeah, there's quite a few head scratchers in there...

You know, every now and then I get the urge to build a big box (Thomas usually advises me to just sleep on it, or have a snifter of brandy, and in all likelihood I'll just forget about it). So maybe I can understand Darren- I still have this secret desire (or not so secret) to build an Eidelon Klone or Isis clone, I just can't justify the work to build a big box, considering how big boxes sound.

But I did have fun taking a stab at the Opus Ceramique Klone crossover for Marc (pretty similar to what an Eidelon crossover would be- did anyone notice I didn't use a Cauer-elliptic filter anywhere?!?!??), and maybe I should offer to do the same thing for Darren? :rofl: you know, just to help out. Hey, I'm not trying to be pushy.... just imagine what would happen if Evil Twin got wind of this....


~Jon

[cjd]

What's wrong with big boxes? :P They sound better than small boxes. Well, they sound better than too-small boxes.

Unless you're simply referring to no-boxes. So.
C

[PMazz]

Speaking of big boxes..... Since I made the dubious decision to seal up the LAs, the box size is a hefty 14"w x 76"h x 24"d. The forklift is on order.

Pete

[JonMarsh]

ONLY 22" taller? Actually, they're even 6" taller than the line array monoliths I had planned. I even called mine the "sort of compact line array".

Darren needs a better CAD program, though.







The 12's here are BPD1203's. Still have a pair, mint, new in the crates. :B





Now THOSE are manly 12's, none of this sissy copper in the gap stuff.


talk about slightly obsolescent. Well, they do have a lot of Xmax...


And how about those carbon fiber midwoofers from MCM? I only paid about $20 each for them. Still have them.





Wonder why I forgot to run them in my recent midwoofer shootout?


Oh yeah, now I remember....

[Paul H]

Inquiring minds want to know - Just how many drivers do you currently own?

I'll just check with Guiness for the current world record while you're getting the answer

Paul

[SE-Raider]

Now ya had to go and get personal...

[JonMarsh]

Inquiring minds want to know - Just how many drivers do you currently own?

I'll just check with Guiness for the current world record while you're getting the answer

Paul

Too many. WAY too many. Unlike MarkK, all these drivers I test and play with aren't borrowed. :E

Also currently in new old stock besides the drivers I've mentioned in my testing thread is a Stryke HE-15, an Ascendent Atlas 12 or two, 16 Fountek JP3, my RD50s, some BG Neo8s, a couple of Eton 8-800, some Audax mids (don't remember the part numbers) and of course a few pairs of HiVi M8a. And 4 RS265HF. And a couple of RS270s. (gotta test those someday).

Oh, and I found a pair of Audax tweeters that were mishipped in the late 90's by PE, that I'll probably throw into the test mix just for perspective on what we USED to have to put up with. I had some "titanium" dome tweeters from MCM, but through those out, after checking the impedance curves. Ugly. Lots of breakups, I think.

Xmas before last I actually tossed out a bunch of older stuff, including some Scanspeak woofers.

[thylantyr]

Colossi

I wasn't impressed first time I saw it. A better line array can
be made for 1/2 the cost.

[ThomasW]

Folks that heard these liked them

That's because many are simply impressed with any big speaker that has a lot of displacement = lower distortion, compared to the mini-monitors they're used to hearing.....

A better line array can be made for 1/2 the cost.

Yep..

[CraigJ]

Yep Jon and I chatted about this design yesterday.

The nice thing is that using the Behringer XO one can easily lower the XO point to something more appropriate (hint: 500Hz-650Hz is nice).

To bad there's no baffle step compensation in the design.

And why use the RS150s?

Just use a line array of RS180's and forget about the 10"s..... :wink:

I'll bite, just how many RS180's would you use and would it be dipole? Could this be Hank's "final" answer? ;x(

Craig

[ThomasW]

just how many RS180's would you use

8 is a nice number.

and would it be dipole?

Sounds good to me

Could this be Hank's "final" answer?

Not if the price of RD50's continues to go up.

[JoshK]

If *I* were to clone (aesthetically) a box speaker it would be the Kharma Ceramique 1



One of my all time favorite looking speakers....depending on the outcome of testing testing 1,2,3 driver choices could be Accuton 24-6, C90-T6, and RS265HF.

[CraigJ]

Thanks Thomas,

And how many RS180s for a RD75? Would a room would approximately 300 sq. feet, be too small? 8O

Thank you,

Craig

[JonMarsh]

If *I* were to clone (aesthetically) a box speaker it would be the Kharma Ceramique 1



One of my all time favorite looking speakers....depending on the outcome of testing testing 1,2,3 driver choices could be Accuton 24-6, C90-T6, and RS265HF.

With the C90-T6, even a C13-6 would probably be feasible for the tweeter. And I'd consider something a little meatier on the low end- a 12 like the RS315HF or the Aurasound NS12-513 for a little higher sensitivity. Actually, in any of those cases you could so well with the C79 or C89 for midrange, they're just not quite as low distortion as the published data on the C90 would lead one to believe.

That's something I hope to investigate, also. I've got some "classic" new in box C88's on the way to look at, but I'm still waiting for the C90s. Reportedly Avalon is now advertising the Isis, and their usage may be why it's hard for me to get a set.



Frankly, the Isis is what I'm gunning for with the high end Arvo Venti/Isiris in develoment. Of course, Avaloln is using a new diamond accuton tweeter, and at most I'll have to cheese out with something like a waveguide loaded C13-6 or C24-6. BUT, they have box bass.... with it's attendent room and setup issues. And 210 lb per cabinet! 60" High.... well, I was planning on keeping the Arvo Venti just under that (Baltic Birch comes in 5 ft panels).

My current "tentative" plan is the Aurasound NS12-513 for the main 12" woofers (ultra rigid aluminum cone with Neodymium magnet assemblies), with (most likely) TC2+ or as a fall back (depending on availability of TC2+ DVC) RS315HF. Todd says they do have a limited number of the DVC TC2+ 12's on hand. It's good to be able to go dual source.

Now, if Accuton would just ship, I'd say, let the battle begin.... And we'll have neodymium magnet drivers with concave cones all around, too, Neil! :T :heh:

[ThomasW]

Usually one makes the height of the woofers as tall or taller than the planar array. There's an interesting B&G whitepaper on the PE website. I'm using RD75's in a 13'X18' room

[JoshK]

But your Isiris plans, will dipole, not closed box, right?

[Dennis H]

Aurasound NS12-513

From the drawing in the PDF, it looks like a very small vent in the pole piece. Possible chuffing in a dipole?

[JonMarsh]

The usability of the NS12-513 is still to be examined.

And the Arvo Venti/Isiris will be diopole. If Aurasound isn't suitable because of rear vent, then it's back to RS315HF.

[CraigJ]

Thomas,

O.K., so one RD75, eight RS180s, a Behringer CX2310, a four channel amp. Then add something like the Arvo Part Type 3 design?

That's it? :dancenana: Where's Hank.

Craig

p.s. what about six RS225s instead?

[ThomasW]

Craig,

The Colossis is using a high XO point because the baffle is so narrow. If one uses a wider baffle like the Arvo type 3, the XO point can be lowered and yes the RS225 drivers will be fine.

Where's Hank? Well he probably has his nose to the grindstone like Jon... :roll: