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:T Why aren't there more people doing the DIY with larger woofers? I know cost is an issue but it seems like the largest driver that most people are using are 8", which is NOT going to truly play that low-freq subbass. I've read many posts where people are so confident, that for stereo listening, the Large speaker setting is the key, while they are not even using mains which can handle the same bass that their subwoofer could perform on the redirected bass via the Small setting! Some people say "I have no reason to use a sub with these [small woofer] mains..." I doubt many of these people have heard a properly aligned sub (phasing is really the key for blending).
For soundstaging reasons, it definitely DOES sound best to have the fronts on Large, even in movies, but it's not as thrilling as having that nice low bass to be redirected to the powered sub instead, summed along with that sometimes rare LFE audio. The thing is, many movies don't utilize the LFE enough, therefore, if we rely on the front left/right to now handle subbass, we are seriously giving up the excitement of thunderous bass if we are designing only semi-full-range loudspeakers! This is an everyday conflict. What's the solution? Put subwoofers on the front main speakers! Ideally, if we had all the money to throw at this passion (which most of the people here would at least consider this) we would have a sub on every channel of the 5.1 setup. Of course, this is with the wife being an audiophile like us - my wife is! Ok, well we may not need to worry too much about the center and surrounds being full-range down to the subbass (but oh my it sounds so good!!). 8" bass-reflex are fine for maximum driver diameters in the center and surrounds so let's continue thinking of the fronts for now.
I want to put together a slamming system with the RMB-1095 multi-channel amplifier where the fronts are set to Large - this means the main Front Left and Front Right speakers must be able to handle subwoofer frequencies. The LFE channel will still be handled by a larger, powered 15" though, because there's no substitute for having a much bigger sub on that special low freq effects channel, just as the engineer intended, for emphasis.
Let's get some ideas going as to what choice of drivers and crossovers would be a great match to allow a 12" woofer/subwoofer in each front channel speaker while integrating at least a tweet and mid. It could require a 4-way design though, since some subwoofers have a limited response. OR... if we go with 3-way, we'll need a midrange that can go low, preferably around 500Hz. There's some great Dayton drivers that come to mind, but many of the woofers used around here in the forum aren't usually rated for 200w. Sure, we could wire up multiple drivers to split the power, but as a cost effective solution, less drivers being able to handle more power would be a plus! Basically, you may consider this idea as simply adding a subwoofer to one of the 3-way designs as people have attempted in the DIY area here, but IMO they're not able to handle a higher amount of power. There are also people with much more power per channel. This would be a great way to get people thinking more about full-range than being duped into thinking those long-throw 6.5's or 8's is going to give you the same experience as a subwoofer will. I'm like many of you - one subwoofer does throw off the imaging.. we could put another mono sub in the other corner and balance it out, but that's still two mono's.. it's not stereo. Ok, you can get nit-picky and point out that bass guitar tracks and kick drums are usually tracked in the center and I agree. However, there are those low frequencies in many recorded instruments that may still have a stereo image. It'd be better to have two stereo subs than two mono subs just in case though! Either way, the 6.5" and 8" woofers in your fronts still just don't cut it for Large speaker setting!
What's the favorite DIY tweeter for the price?
A matching midrange capable of decent power if it has to hit low 500hz?
Maybe an 8" midbass? Yes, I said midbass because I won't consider an 8" as a "subwoofer" compared to the sound a 12" or 15" gives. If you haven't added a subwoofer to your small speakers, you are really missing out.
Lastly, what is the opinion on huge, accordian ribbed drivers to be used for the subbass and bass so we can just throw in a midrange and tweet to keep it an easy 3-way design? Mackie makes some nice 3-way powered stage monitors that use 15" Eminence bass/guitar drivers without that rubber surround. That can be done because they're sensitive drivers that have a decently flat freq response that goes pretty high to blend with the midrange. However, the drawback is that they don't go as low as a "subwoofer" driver will (the 15" accordian ribbed driver only has an Fs of 40Hz). Is the only solution to make a 4-way? The crossover is gonna be expensive....
For soundstaging reasons, it definitely DOES sound best to have the fronts on Large, even in movies, but it's not as thrilling as having that nice low bass to be redirected to the powered sub instead, summed along with that sometimes rare LFE audio. The thing is, many movies don't utilize the LFE enough, therefore, if we rely on the front left/right to now handle subbass, we are seriously giving up the excitement of thunderous bass if we are designing only semi-full-range loudspeakers! This is an everyday conflict. What's the solution? Put subwoofers on the front main speakers! Ideally, if we had all the money to throw at this passion (which most of the people here would at least consider this) we would have a sub on every channel of the 5.1 setup. Of course, this is with the wife being an audiophile like us - my wife is! Ok, well we may not need to worry too much about the center and surrounds being full-range down to the subbass (but oh my it sounds so good!!). 8" bass-reflex are fine for maximum driver diameters in the center and surrounds so let's continue thinking of the fronts for now.
I want to put together a slamming system with the RMB-1095 multi-channel amplifier where the fronts are set to Large - this means the main Front Left and Front Right speakers must be able to handle subwoofer frequencies. The LFE channel will still be handled by a larger, powered 15" though, because there's no substitute for having a much bigger sub on that special low freq effects channel, just as the engineer intended, for emphasis.
Let's get some ideas going as to what choice of drivers and crossovers would be a great match to allow a 12" woofer/subwoofer in each front channel speaker while integrating at least a tweet and mid. It could require a 4-way design though, since some subwoofers have a limited response. OR... if we go with 3-way, we'll need a midrange that can go low, preferably around 500Hz. There's some great Dayton drivers that come to mind, but many of the woofers used around here in the forum aren't usually rated for 200w. Sure, we could wire up multiple drivers to split the power, but as a cost effective solution, less drivers being able to handle more power would be a plus! Basically, you may consider this idea as simply adding a subwoofer to one of the 3-way designs as people have attempted in the DIY area here, but IMO they're not able to handle a higher amount of power. There are also people with much more power per channel. This would be a great way to get people thinking more about full-range than being duped into thinking those long-throw 6.5's or 8's is going to give you the same experience as a subwoofer will. I'm like many of you - one subwoofer does throw off the imaging.. we could put another mono sub in the other corner and balance it out, but that's still two mono's.. it's not stereo. Ok, you can get nit-picky and point out that bass guitar tracks and kick drums are usually tracked in the center and I agree. However, there are those low frequencies in many recorded instruments that may still have a stereo image. It'd be better to have two stereo subs than two mono subs just in case though! Either way, the 6.5" and 8" woofers in your fronts still just don't cut it for Large speaker setting!
What's the favorite DIY tweeter for the price?
A matching midrange capable of decent power if it has to hit low 500hz?
Maybe an 8" midbass? Yes, I said midbass because I won't consider an 8" as a "subwoofer" compared to the sound a 12" or 15" gives. If you haven't added a subwoofer to your small speakers, you are really missing out.
Lastly, what is the opinion on huge, accordian ribbed drivers to be used for the subbass and bass so we can just throw in a midrange and tweet to keep it an easy 3-way design? Mackie makes some nice 3-way powered stage monitors that use 15" Eminence bass/guitar drivers without that rubber surround. That can be done because they're sensitive drivers that have a decently flat freq response that goes pretty high to blend with the midrange. However, the drawback is that they don't go as low as a "subwoofer" driver will (the 15" accordian ribbed driver only has an Fs of 40Hz). Is the only solution to make a 4-way? The crossover is gonna be expensive....
It may be that right next to the mains IS the best place, but proximity isn't the key here, it's room placement/interaction. Doing something similar with the Arvos would get you the same place (their response is similar since they're dipole.)
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