Can someone suggest an enclosure for me?

[BasiCEvil]

Looking to start a DIY project for a sub.

Seeing that I live in a condo building that shares floors ceilings and walls with others, I can't go over the top and totally rock the house. But, the building is mostly poured concrete and braided steel with brick seperation walls, so I don't have to be totally silent.

The sub will deal mostly with 50% HT and 50% Music as programming.

I'd like a sub that can give me good fill with lower volumes, but also provide a nice rumble during explosions at high volumes without distortion.

Lastly, the enclosure cannot be higher than 24 inches.

This is my first time and I have a friend that is a very good carpenter with all the tools and skills that will be needed.

I would appreciate any links to readups that I can do.

Thanks in advance.

[---k---]

The size of the enclosure will be based on what driver you use and whether you decide to go sealed or ported.

Have you picked out a driver yet? What can you get in the Bahamas? Are you willing to pay to have one shipped from the states?

[BasiCEvil]

There really aren't any drivers available here in the Bahamas, so I will have to pick one up when I go to USA.

I also have a freight forwarding service that I use, so I can get the driver as quickly as anyone in the USA can get it, with the extra cost added of course.

So, yes, I am willing to pay the extra cost.

I am thinking about a 12" just to keep the box size and amplification needs within reason. I could be totally wrong on my thoughts on this, so please correct me if I am.

As for specific drivers, I was thinking a Shiva or a Assassin.

[SteveCallas]

I think this is where --k--'s subwoofer showcase thread comes in handy. Here is a well done, compact 12" sealed design:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=229170&postcount=7

I'm sure the builder would be willing to share all his plans and info with you (though not in that thread itself ).

If you are willing to step it up a bit and go with a 15" driver, check out this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=636825&highlight=the+low+end+quat ro

Still compact and should be able to go a bit louder/lower. You might even want to look into substituting the Quatro with the 15" DVC.

[chasw98]

How big is your room? What are the dimensions and cubic volume. If you were to go with the Dayton DVC or maybe even the Quattro, I would recommend using one of the plate amps available because of the very low filters that are built into them to protect the woofer. I learned this the hard way :cry: Steve and ---k--- have built very good successful subs. They will get you going with a good design.

Chuck

[BasiCEvil]

Here's a layout of the room.



My room is 19' X 13'8", with ceiling being 7'11". The entertainment setup will be setup facing east. I have already mounted my projector H31 on the eastern wall and the 92" screen on the western wall.


The entire room is brick walls with a tile floor. The system will be used for 50% movies, 50% music.

As I said before, all walls are concrete brick. (Gotta love living in a hurricane zone!)

[ThomasW]

Given all the trouble involved in getting gear to an island, I suggest making this a one time project and using a 15" driver.

24" height isn't a problem. Actually a 24" cube is a pretty big box. If you can make it deeper than 24" more options open.

One option is to build a ported box, sized to work well if one wants to seal the ports.

So at this point were you to give us a budget for the driver, amp, and EQ (IOW everything but the box) , it would narrow the field considerably.

Also knowing if you want a plate type amp vs a stand alone amp would be helpful

[BasiCEvil]

I figure about $250 for the driver. I would like a plate amp and I would want it to be something that I can use in the future. I know that more power is better than underpowering it.

Is a seperate EQ really necessary?

I like the suggestion for a ported box. Can you point me in the right direction with plans?

[ThomasW]

Is a seperate EQ really necessary?

That depends totally on the room. And I'd say 1 person in 1000 doesn't need EQ.

What's the max cabinet depth (front to back) you can live with? For a fairly low port tuning one needs reasonable depth if the profile is to be kept low.

Currently the best 15" available in the $250 range are the SoundSplinter RL-p15"

[BasiCEvil]

26" max.

[chasw98]

Since you are limited on space, you might want to think about mounting the plate amp outside of the box, so that you will end up with more net internal volume. From the dimensions I have seen, you are looking at a 24" X 24" X 26" external dimension box. If the box is made with a single layer of MDF, you will need internal bracing that will take away from net internal volume. If the box is made with 2 layers of MDF that will take away from the net volume. The driver and the port will also take away from the net internal volume. Add the plate amp to the inside of the box and there is less room inside for air to move! The end result is that the sub will not go as deep as is possible so some tradeoffs have to be made. Plate amp outside, deeper response. Plate amp inside, not as deep response. There are other factors involved also. I am sure Thomas, Steve, or ---k--- will let you know what models are going to work in your situation. Just my .02! I have the SoundSplinter driver and it is wonderful, you will not regret it.

Chuck

[---k---]

24x24x24 would be bigger than my enclosure. Mine is 19"w x 24.5"h x 20"d.I don't think putting the amp inside will take away enough to really worry about, unless you are making it really small. But mine is sealed. But, I do get good output down to 20hz, so who needs a port?

If you want a ported box with a big 15" driver, it will probably need to be bigger than 26" x26". Take a look at Thomas's Aerial Stryke sub:

http://home.comcast.net/~klone-audio/page30AS-15-1.html

I beleive that Ben built this with an RL-P15. I shouldn't speak here for but I beleive that this was a project in no limit sub building. If you like it, I'm sure that Thomas can help you slim the box down a little, and lighten it up a little.

If you want to keep it small, but ported; than maybe you were right with your original thinking about a 12" sub. Maybe Oudio 12" TC2+? I'll hang up now and let the experts answer your question.

[BasiCEvil]

Anyone got any opinions on a 12" driver that I could get some nice rumble down to 20Hz with? I am somewhat limited on space (24x24x24) and would also like to consider a down-firing sub box.

Any suggestions?

[ThomasW]

If you go down firing it will necessitate a smaller box, given your height restriction. So that's not something I'd recommend doing.

Since you can go up to a 24" cube I still recommend the 15" RL-p driver.

If the budget permits go with the Adire ADA 600 plate amp. If that's to $pendy get the Parts Express Dayton HPSA500 (p/n 300-806) amp.

[---k---]

Thomas,
Is your recommendation for a ported box? or are you thinking that a sealed one will be good enough?

[ThomasW]

He can't get a low enough port tuning in a 24" cube without having the port be a maze. So sealed it is...

[---k---]

Thomas,
Okay, that makes more sense. Up there in #8, he said that he liked ported. I couldn't make an RL-P15 work in a ported box that size, which is why I was suggesting the 12" driver.

That being said, I like my sub very much. It goes strong to 20hz. It was really easy to build, and tollerant of my poor skills. And he said that he wanted a sub for 50/50. You probably know better than him what he wants - a sealed 15".

[BasiCEvil]

If you go down firing it will necessitate a smaller box, given your height restriction. So that's not something I'd recommend doing.

Since you can go up to a 24" cube I still recommend the 15" RL-p driver.

If the budget permits go with the Adire ADA 600 plate amp. If that's to $pendy get the Parts Express Dayton HPSA500 (p/n 300-806) amp.

So, you would recommend putting the SS 15" in a 24" cube. Using 3/4" MDF? Does it need to have any internal bracing?

Anything other than the amp that I need now? EQ?

Will the crossover from my current receiver be suffice?

[---k---]

A 24" sealed cube w/ a SS RL-p15 is almost exactly what me, CBJ, and Stevenn just finished building. You can see my finished sub and CBJ's in the DIY Subwoofer Showcase . We all used pro-amps with ours, but there really isn't anything differant if you used a plate amp. I'm feeding each of mine 450W. The driver can take more power, which is why Thomas recommended the Ada 600W plate amp. You will probably want to double up on your MDF thickness.

The crossover in your receiver will work. A Behringer 1024P or the new replacement will be helpful, especially if you don't get a lot of low end.

Thomas really walked me step by step through the build process and answered every imaginable question I had. (I think I owe him a pizza for it too. Thomas, if you want your pizza, PM me your address and I'll ship a Chicago Deep Dish to you. You just have to invite everyone else that answered my questions over also. I'm serious!) So you might want to check that out, and see if it will work for you.

[Bent]

I'm planning a dual sealed 15" RL-p with an ADA 1200, drivers should see a clean 600 watts each. Dimensions will be 22" X 22" X 46" external...
doubled up 3/4 mdf with heavy bracing.

[ThomasW]

The sub out from the receiver is all you need for a crossover.

I'd make the box from either doubled 3/4" MDF or a mix of 3/4" MDF outer layer with a 3/4" OSB inner layer.

If you want a lighter weight box, use 3/4" Baltic Birch ply (1.5" front baffle) Note that BB ply is a 13 layer ply, not the cheap 5 layer stuff sold at the big box stores.

I'd use a bracing pattern something like this....



I'm pretty sure you'll want EQ (if nothing else to boost the 20Hz range). You can of course wait until after you build the sub and take a set of measurements before ordering it.

Regarding EQ, the Behringer DSP1124P is being discontinued, the current price is $100. It's replacement is the FBQ2496 that costs $150. So you'd save $50 by getting the closeout 1124P before they're all gone...

[Bent]

The ADA series of amps have 2 bands of parametric eq built in - perfect for sealed boxes for low boost until you get a BFD.

[steve nn]

Dimensions will be 22" X 22" X 46" external...

That's funny. If a guy has sealed then he needs vented or vise versa. I think we want it all. I'm in the process of building my second 22" cube 1.25" thick along with bracing and then I'll do the vented after that. :lol:

So, you would recommend putting the SS 15" in a 24" cube.

With my 22" 3.8 cu ft (after factoring) it does very well down to 18hz, but as suggested the EQ is really important to shaping your sound along with a little gain around 20hz. Your room will be the big factor. I think your going to find you wont need more than a few pounds of fill and it'll perform very nicely. I have a null at 17-16 Hz that's alleviated 5dB by sliding the loveseat over though. I also have the mono BASSIS on the way, but I think you might find that your good to go with just incorporating a little EQ. One 15" RL-p corner loaded puts out some nice bass. The only reason I decided on dual is I need the headroom for the for The BASSIS/LT..

I sold two subs that I really liked to get into this DIY gig!.. I wont lie to you, I was as nervous about my bass (to be) as one gets. It cost me more than a few hrs sleep, but now that the first is finished.. all is well. Follow the suggestions that (Thomas gives) come your way and you'll have good bass.

[BasiCEvil]

In looking over the finances, it looks like this will put me over budget a bit. Would stepping down to a 12" sub change the pricing very much. I am figuring that I would also need less power to push a 12" and therefore equate to less of an investment.

[Bent]

the voice coils on the 12" RL-p and the 15" RL-p are the same, so they should dissipate the heat the same - you would have reduced output levels with a 12" compared to a 15".

IIWY, i'd keep saving to buy the 15"er, (you'll probably want to build another one in a year anyways).

[---k---]

There is another thread right now that Thomas is recommending a 12" TC2+. It may save you $100 today, but it may also leave you yearning for a second one, which will only cost you in the long run.

The differance in price between a 15" and a 12" in small when you consider that you get about twice the output. I've come to form the opinion that a 12" is only worth building if you are tight on space.

What amp did you decide on? I know the ADA amp was recommended and is a great amp, but you could probably save a lot of money by getting the PE Plate amp, like Thomas mentioned above.

Also, I've seen several people mention that they have been able to purchase a used BFD on ebay or at their local Gutiar Center for $60.

[---k---]

Adding to above, the ADA 600W amp is $549, the PE 500W amp is $240.

Or, you could consider getting a seperate Pro Amp. My Nady XA-1100 with 2x450W was only $200. This is enough to power two of these bad boy RL-P15. If you are sure that you are only going to be building one sub, you could move down to the Nady XA-900, put it in bridge mode, and it will give you like 800W, which will max your driver out. I think they run about $150.

You also said initially, that you would like an amp that could be used in the future. A Pro Amp is a lot more flexible in this respect.

Just some more options.

[Bent]

--k-- has some good advice.

[ThomasW]

I am figuring that I would also need less power to push a 12" and therefore equate to less of an investment.

Nope not the case. The sensitivity of a 15" can be equal to or even higher than a 12", it just depends on the driver

[BasiCEvil]

Well, I just got my furniture delivered on Wednesday and I think that the 15" will be too big of an enclosure for me. Any advice on a 12" ported? Will I need as big a box? Would you recommend sealed on a 12"? How about an Ascendant Audio Assassin 12"? Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

Here's a look at the area that this sub would be going...

[ThomasW]

Take some cardboard and play around to see the size of the biggest box you can live with. When you know that size we can design a sub around it..

[SteveCallas]

I don't mean anything by this, but are you going to be upgrading your speakers as well?

[BasiCEvil]

I don't mean anything by this, but are you going to be upgrading your speakers as well?

Yes, I actually already ordered my new front stage. I ordered 3 of the extensively modded DV62CLR's from Ed Frias.

They should be here in a week or so.

[jdybnis]

I'm not familiar with Ed Frias/DV62CLR, can you post a link.

[---k---]

I think TWO BIG 15" speakers under that screen that would act like a stand for you center would be perfect. Maybe put a narrow equipement rack between them, and rock on. Something that would be the same width as you screen. I'm serious.

Like Thomas said, play with some cardboard. I had to do this with my wife.

[Bent]

playing with cardboard?

Image not available

like this?

[cjd]

A pair of 12's with some good EQ balanced under that screen as a rack (like Ryan mentioned) could look quite normal and NOT sub-ish.

Or, how 'bout that table... really need it to look just like that there? Glass is a poor surface to have between you and your speakers...

C

[BasiCEvil]

Ed Frias contact info.

I'm not familiar with Ed Frias/DV62CLR, can you post a link.

Link

This is the best that I can do. Ed has been really cool through this whole process and has answered any questions that I have sent to him.

I was basically looking for a bargain for my first "real" HT system and a lot of the reading that I did brought me into contact with him.

[BasiCEvil]

Finally made a decision to stay small and inexpensive for my first DIY project. I got the 12" Assassin from Ascendant Audio and will be building a ported front firing box for it.

Also purchased a Bash 300W amp to power it. Looking forward to getting it all here and building the box. I will post pics and a review upon completion.

[Jose_L]

Just a quick question , I too am about to build a sub using the same driver in a sealed 24" cub w/ a PE 1000w plate amp. SteveC help me model a ported box which was 20 x 22 x 32 internal dimensions, but it's going to be too large.

Just curious, how would adding passive radiators affect my 24" cube ? Could I get the same benefit as a ported design ?

Regards,
Jose