Trying to save a friend from HTIAB!

[DarrenT]

I have a friend with a budget of < $500.00 and he wants to replace his toasted home theater in a box. He is looking at buying a new one and I cannot let it happen. Is there a speaker design suitable for home theater that would leave enough $$ left over for an AV Receiver? Not looking for anything fancy here, just some decent speakers and enough of a reciever to do DD and drive the speakers. I have lots of experience with building speaker designs that are out of his range but not with more budget oriented designs.

I used to have a link to a refrubished Marantz site where I regularly found receivers for ~$200.... I'd like to find something in the $150 range to make the speakers budget more realistic although it is quite slim.

I'm doing some research now but figured with the collective knowledge here I could get some helpful advice for my friend.

Thanks!

Darren

[KeithM]

B3S with a 12"quatro
or 12" dayton RS and a250W amplifier with materials cost should leave enough for a basic receiver. He might need to go over a little bit if he wants the RS sub. You could also save 30 dollars by getting a 120 watt sub amplifier. I hope you can convince him that DIY is the way
I'm currently using the B3S project as a pair of computer speakers and am very suprised I built a pair that sounded so good for around 55 dollars.

[DarrenT]

Quick question about the computer speakers...what are you using to power them? I was considering building some computer speakers for work.

[KeithM]

I'm using a 3.5mm to 2 RCA cable going to a cheap receiver I got at a garage sale. From there it's a stereo setup.

[Marzen]

I took a quick look at PE's project page, the Lytle Five's come in at ~$350 for 5 spkrs. That leaves $150 for an a/v rcvr which is no sweat. An additional $200 down the road gives you an equal quality powered sub. Of course there's no charge for your services; & the 'I made that' factor is really nice.

[Dustin B]

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/dht/index.html

[runninkyle17]

You should have your friend take a look here: Zaph's Audio.

Also if your friend does not want to go the DIY route, look at the budget Fluance system. I currently have Fluance mains and surrounds and they sound amazing for the price (this is the setup I have minus the center channel: link)

The SX-HTB+ sounds even better and that is five speakers for $300. That gives you $200 to spend on a receiver or you can find a cheap receiver and a decent budget sub for $200 or so. I know that the Dayton 10" sub is only $125 at Parts Express and any older Kenwood or even Pioneer receiver can probably be bought for under $100.

So all in all, it really depends on what your friend is looking for. But I agree that he should stay away from HTIAB!

[Hdale85]

seems like HTIAB's are getting less popular nowadays lol i went into FYE local dvd/music store and they are way over stocked on HTIAB's and all of them are drastically marked down lol ive owned one once and that'll never happen again

[DarrenT]

Great suggestions guys, he is getting excited about the options he has...he figured there weren't many but it's looking pretty good. We'll be looking at all the suggestions, keep em coming if ya got em!

Darren

[Hdale85]

I think i may build a set of the 3BS's for my fiancee or somthing just to play with them...lol they are so cheap that its not really loseing any money if i screw somthing up and sence im in a small apartment at the momment i could probably build them without the use of a table saw or whatnot maybe a jigsaw and router if need be.....i really think i can do it with a jigsaw and the old manual hand saw lol and a miter box of course 100 bucks for the set i wonder how they would compare to my Klipsch computer speakers....i have the Promedia Ultra 5.1's and they sound pretty nice but lately i notice places where they are lacking with certain music....so it would be interested to see how the B3S's compare to my 400 dollar computer speakers lol

[Hdale85]

could anyone make a parts list for the 3BS filter? lol i dont really understand so well =/...i gotta learn how to read schematics better but i really would like part numbers or what not lol i found a .08mH 16 GA COPPER FOIL INDUCTOR rather then an air core inductor which only comes in .10mH would that work? lol...if i build these it would be my first diy speaker and just practice for building my Modula MTM 1's or the Natalie P's

[MicM]

Hello!

I'm the friend who is being rescued.


After reviewing all of the choices, I will probably go with building a set of the Dayton HTs from the PE project pages.

PE is out of stock right now one of the Perfect Layer inductors called out in the parts list: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...66-822&scqty=5

However, they DO have a Jantzen inductor that is very close in spec to the PL: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...55-242&scqty=5

Both are .80mH 18ga air core inductors. The PL is .42 ohms and the Jantzen is .43. Can anyone tell me if this is an acceptable substitution? It looks like the PLs won't be back in stock until the end of this month.

Thanks for all of the advice so far!

Mike

[Hdale85]

you had a HTIAB already...what would make you want to purchase another one? lol

[MicM]

I don't - that was the whole point of this thread. I am looking for an alternative to HTIAB at a price that I can sell to the spouse and still put together in a reasonable amount of time. (I.E. Saving up for a few years to purchase a $5k receiver sort of defeats the purpose of the whole project.)

Mike

[Hdale85]

ah ok so she wants to buy a htiab? lol im lucky my fiancee lets me pretty much do what i want

[MicM]

Nah - she's just pretty much indifferent. In her mind, the broken HTIAB still makes noise, so why replace it? (It's the surround channel that has died, and that just drives me nuts)

And believe me, when she was my fiancee, she let me do a whole lot more than she lets me do now! :B

<sighs and thinks back to the good old days>

[Marzen]

Can anyone tell me if this is an acceptable substitution?
Mike

Hey Mike, welcome aboard. You can use the substitute part. Low DC resistance is important, but a .01Ω difference won't be noticable.
And my wife has the same indifferent attitude as well. Good luck with your project & let us know how it turns out.
Regards,
Ward

[MicM]

Htiab 0, Diy 1

The speakers are built!

I found a decent basic HT receiver (Onkyo TX-SR303) refurbished for $79. (That came first so that I could at least hook up the Sony Satellites and have some form of surround sound again)

I decided to build the Dayton HTs from the PE Project showcase. Enclosures are 3/4" MDF finished with Duplicolor Duraliner. Last night I hooked everything up for a test listen and all I can say is WOW! Still have the Sony HTIAB sub, and have the crossover on the receiver set to 80Hz.

First test was the DVD menu sound loop from Godzilla. I actually heard some sounds that I hadn't even noticed before with the old system. Next we watched some TV, and for the final test, I threw in Dire Straights' "Brothers in Arms." Again I say, "WOW!" The best way I can describe the difference is to liken it to looking at a regular TV and then at an HDTV. The sound just has more "pieces" in it, if that makes sense.

So now comes the final phase - replacing the HTIAB Sony Sub with something better. I'm not sure wich way to go yet. (Going to be hard to NOT come up with something better than the Sony, so there's no real stress involved ) One front runner right now is this one from PE: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-635

What do y'all recommend?

Thanks!

Mike

[Hdale85]

are these the ones you built?

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/dht/index.html

its funny how good some cheap drivers can sound compared to commercial stuff lol

[MicM]

That's them.

[cjd]

Those Daytons continue to be a great step up and into DIY.

I would consider a 12" or 15" Quattro + 240W plate amp.

C

[Marzen]

Last night I hooked everything up for a test listen and all I can say is WOW!
Mike

Congrats on wrapping that up! I love that diy high too. As for which subwoofer, what are the dimensions of your room?
PS - my wife finally mentioned how much more clear the dialogue is now when watching tv or movies.
Regards,
Ward

[MicM]

Let's see...

The listening area is an approximately 10 to 12 foot square portion of a daylight basement, which takes up a bit less than half, perhaps, of the actual open space. The TV is against the wall (one of the "underground" ones), and so viewers would have their backs to the rest of the open space in the downstairs "rec room" of our house.

I do like the price right now on the Dayton Quatro 15" (special for $75 right now) and the 250w plate amp. That's right about what I want to spend. (Or less is OK too :-))

PE has info from Dayton on a recommended sealed enclosure, but I can't find anything specific on a ported one for that combo. At this point I haven't done enough research to understand which is better for my situation and why.

Then again, I *could* just drop $150 on that pre-assembled 12" Dayton from PE and I'm betting it would sound an order of magnitude better than the little Sony I have now. Of course, 15" just sounds cooler than 12"... In amateur telescope making, we call that "aperature fever."

Mike

[purplepeople]

ApexJr has some plate amps that might suit you for less than PE.

ensen.

[Marzen]

Hey Mike,
I asked about room size because you could use the subwoofer boxes as speaker stands considering the fact you can build two boxes from the same sheet of mdf & you have a pretty large listening area. Buy one amp & spkr now, & pick up just a speaker later on for the 2nd box; or just use it as a cosmetic dummy.
Oh, and you won't find any ported info on that Quatro speaker, as it's designed to work in a sealed box.
Regards,
Ward

[cjd]

You will get better response out of the Quattro.

And I would go with the 240W over the 250W amp at PE, though the Apex offerings aren't a bad idea at all.

We can put together a suggestion for a ported Quattro but it gets really big. I would go sealed though. Add some EQ to bring up the bottom end down the road.

C

[derekbannatyne]

Just wondering... why does everyone reccomend the PE 240w amp over the 250w amp? I've got a deal secured on a used 250w one for $80 shipped that I'm going to be ordering later tonight to power my 15" Dayton DVC in a 7.77ft^3 box. Thanks.

[DarrenT]

Hey guys, I'm a little skeptical on the Quattro for Mikes home theater sub. The F3 on the alignment he showed me was over 41Hz... I realize that is without room gain but it is still far too high for a good HT sub. Personally I don't like to see anything over 20hz. I'm suggesting he go for a ported alignement and a driver with decent xmax like the Titanic or DVC. The box will be bigger but will hit much lower which is necessary in HT.

Let me know if you have arguments either way. He's looking at the Titanic 12" driver and trying to find decent ported alignments for it in addition to the suggestions here.

[ThomasW]

We haven't seen or discussed any specific alignment.

If his budget is flexible there are better 12"s than the Titanic. Look at the 12" on the www.oaudio.com website for comparison...

[DarrenT]

True, there hasn't been any discussion on alignment in this thread but I was worried about the Quatro in a vented alignment with it's 10mm xmax. His budget is pretty limited which is why the Quatro probably came into play. I'm totally open to it. Can you point out some alignments for the Quatro that would bring the F3 down to 20hz? I'm not much help for him as I'm not that experienced at modeling drivers and enclosures. He's really new to DIY and would really benefit from some sample alignments. I really should sit down and practice modeling. Too many hobbies

Thanks Thomas.

[Jnorth1178]

I am new at this. But wanted to know if any of you out there sre familiar with the Rotel Tuner RT 1024 and what the new price might have been? Is it worth $200 if in good condition?

[DarrenT]

Thanks Thomas, I'll forward the info and help him get that worked out. The Quatro is definately priced right.

[MicM]

Ah.

The alignment Darren is talking about is one I showed him. It's the recommended sealed enclosure on PE's site for the Quatro 15".

Mike

[derekbannatyne]

You should probably hurry if you want to get the Quatro at it's sale price, sale ends tomorrow. Oh and does anyone know anything about the amp?

[Marzen]

Thomas,
How are you able to work around some of the pitfalls of that driver in a large, vented enclosure? I ran into problems with excursion limits at moderate amp power & a large group delay of >25msec; & that was factoring in an active plate amp rumble filter with a Q=1 ~ 20hz.
Regards,
Ward

[ThomasW]

Well one can't, that's what happens when I design with a migraine, the migraine meds haven't kicked in, and I have the wrong driver parameters loaded in the program .... :?? ops: :?? ops: :?? ops:

Thanks for catching my error.... :T

[cjd]

I must admit, I have an ulterior motive in suggesting the 15" Quattro sealed. Namely, you end up with a great box into which you can drop a real driver when you realize that's what you need/want to do.

The Quattro is a bargain for what it is and I think plays in the same league as the DHT.

When it's time to upgrade, it'll be to some nice RS drivers in similar sized cabinets, maybe a bit bigger up front... And whatever the 15" high excursion flavor of the month sub is at that point in time.

C